[RCBinTN]

I believe Mike's qualification on them was, "and they sound like ass." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I have my JR pitch set at -0.02x so close to (but not exactly at) A4 = 432Hz. Thanks to @johnjen for the idea!
I think the music sounds better this way, especially acoustic and voices.
FWIW, Friends!

 

[FrivolsListener]

Wasn't it said about Tidal?

It's a commonly used term by Mike, so it's possible.

 

[alpovs]

I believe Mike's qualification on them was, "and they sound like ass." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Like anything audio you need to try it yourself before jumping to conclusions. I am not interested in such things at all, anyway.

 

[artur9]

Count on 2 years time to rewrite the code to RPN.

Better to do it in Lua so that World Of Warcraft can get some decent music ;-P

 

[kimbo]

I have been following the Gadget discussion from the beginning and can accept that lowered tuning could well be a subjective improvement for some (many?) pieces of music. But like MarkF786 I am still having a problem understanding the premise described in Grover's paper that somehow the relationship between the notes are changed. Much earlier in the thread Mike made a comment along the lines (I think?) that one of the key features of the Gadget is not that it just changes the pitch, but that it retains the timing. ie a 5 min track remains 5 mins long. (and of course does not sound like 'ass' )

Here is a thought experiment. Record a great 5 min piece of piano music on a reel to reel tape machine. Use the tape speed fine tuning adjustment to then slow the capstan motor by 2.15%. Play the tape back. It will now be playing with C=256. The piece will now be 6 seconds longer. I cannot see how the harmonic relationships of the notes, chords and harmonics will be any different although perhaps the lowered tone may be more pleasant. What am I missing? (obviously something as I have great faith in Mike) Aside from the slightly slower pace of the piece, will this be achieving the same pitch change that the Gadget performs?

I am an amateur muso and mechanical engineer so I have a basic understanding of the maths involved with equal temperament and how it is a compromise to spread the inharmonicity across each octave.

I really wish I could hear it for myself but down under is a long way from the Shiitter. I guess I will have to wait for the production model and try it for myself.

Mike, Happy New Year to you too! Way back at the beginning of the thread you opened up about your early experiences in Audio (and the Peruvian jungle ) which I really enjoyed. I'd love to hear more on your early experiences in the digital realm and I'm sure other members would too. We have much to learn.

 

[RCBinTN]

I have been following the Gadget discussion from the beginning and can accept that lowered tuning could well be a subjective improvement for some (many?) pieces of music. But like MarkF786 I am still having a problem understanding the premise described in Grover's paper that somehow the relationship between the notes are changed. Much earlier in the thread Mike made a comment along the lines (I think?) that one of the key features of the Gadget is not that it just changes the pitch, but that it retains the timing. ie a 5 min track remains 5 mins long. (and of course does not sound like 'ass' )

Here is a thought experiment. Record a great 5 min piece of piano music on a reel to reel tape machine. Use the tape speed fine tuning adjustment to then slow the capstan motor by 2.15%. Play the tape back. It will now be playing with C=256. The piece will now be 6 seconds longer. I cannot see how the harmonic relationships of the notes, chords and harmonics will be any different although perhaps the lowered tone may be more pleasant. What am I missing? (obviously something as I have great faith in Mike) Aside from the slightly slower pace of the piece, will this be achieving the same pitch change that the Gadget performs?

I am an amateur muso and mechanical engineer so I have a basic understanding of the maths involved with equal temperament and how it is a compromise to spread the inharmonicity across each octave.

I really wish I could hear it for myself but down under is a long way from the Shiitter. I guess I will have to wait for the production model and try it for myself.

Mike, Happy New Year to you too! Way back at the beginning of the thread you opened up about your early experiences in Audio (and the Peruvian jungle ) which I really enjoyed. I'd love to hear more on your early experiences in the digital realm and I'm sure other members would too. We have much to learn.

Great post. I agree we all have much to learn...
I'm not sure it will work with a tape feeding the DAC. Perhaps only with a digital music file from CD or computer.
But, let's ask @Baldr that question.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

The prototype is exclusively coax in, though Eitr makes it easy enough to get USB in. I have powered monitors in my classroom, but the "straight out of my aux jack" sound is beginning to grate—however Mimby (the cheapest DAC I would consider) is of course some $75 more than I paid for the speakers themselves...le sigh.



Just rediscovered this aria courtesy of my favorite countertenor, but I find I prefer it with Wunderlich. I can see why they call it Ombra mai fu. Only an idiot would call it Ombra mai fu di vegetabile. Terrible branding.



Which do you prefer?

 

[Baldr]

Damn – just finished the first readthrough on my latest stage play, "The Cemetary Club". The acting talent in this cast is stunning. It is a great script with complex characters who all interact with each other in complex ways. It is going to be a lot of fun to direct. So why do I even bring this up?

Well, the older I get the more I see similarities in life rather than differences. Putting together a play is a lot more like putting together an electronic product than many consider. There is a goal in recreating a play referred to as "The suspension of disbelief". If the performance pulls that off, it is golden. If an audio performance/recording/system pulls that off, the listener is similarly happy, if only for a while. It is a stage director's job to take a script created by others and recreate it to the best of his ability. It is an audio design engineer's job to take a recording created by others and recreate it to the best of his ability.

One difference is that the success of the play depends primarily on soft (social science, psychology, etc) sciences and less on hard (lighting, sound) sciences. The design of audio equipment is the opposite; soft science is secondary to hard science. My directing mentor taught me years ago that every stage scene is a chase scene. Audio as a whole is a stage scene. Many, many of us at one time (whether we discuss it or not) heard something that was a monument to true subliminal and conscious audio/music ecstacy. Ever since, we have been chasing that same feeling. That is the exact reason that many of us will sell our gear to buy new gear in an effort to re-experience that feeling. As a consequence of this, I never get offended when someone sells an Yggy or whatever else of my gear to buy something else.

If one browses the high-end portion of the towers at audio shows, there are those who are dead serious in their quest to build the absolute best turntable, speaker, amp, whatever. If anyone as much as criticizes their gear they take it as if their wife were just raped. They will have shootouts after show hours where the tension in the room is palpable and no clear consensus will emerge. They all resent each other's abilities and no one is having fun. When I circulate among them, they generally do not take me seriously enough to resent. This is good, since every time I go up there, it is like class reunion for me. It is terrifying when I consider I started in this group. These high end manufacturers live and die by whatever the high end press says. That is an altogether different and impossible chase.

I cannot imagine working in an environment like that. I would be so retired from this if I weren't already dead. Instead, I have incomparable fun and I know that my stuff works for me, and works for me still after all of these years. If it works for you, then that is a bonus. As I keep doing this, I get better at making it much cheaper than most of my high-end competition. Funny thing is that in spite of our much lower price, we seem to get as much mention in the high-end press as most of these high-end makers of car priced goods. They haven't yet figured out how to have real fun building stuff that a lot of people seem to like anyway. That is my reward, and I have all of you to thank, which I do not often do. So thanks! No Schiit! Keeps me happily chasing more stuff to build!

 

[FrivolsListener]

If one browses the high-end portion of the towers at audio shows, there are those who are dead serious in their quest to build the absolute best turntable, speaker, amp, whatever. If anyone as much as criticizes their gear they take it as if their wife were just raped.

Funny you should mention this. If there is any criticism that I have of Schiit, it is that you guys take criticism of your gear way too personally.

Don't get me wrong: I'm a fan of your stuff and have spent money on a stack of Schiit, expensive and no so much. I have plans to buy more as my financial situation allows me to justify it. But if someone has problems with customer support, or is unhappy with a scratchy volume control, or something like that, and they voice their opinion here or in Jason's thread, often the reaction is, "Fine, send it back, restocking fee waived, and don't buy from us ever again."

That's certainly your right to do that.

But to me, it reminds me of the Asgard situation. I think a bit of diplomacy might serve you better. There are things I haven't brought up to your customer support that I think you should know about, but I don't want to get fired as a customer. Things that I think would make you a better company. Things that aren't personal, but are defects and could save you time and effort and maybe point out something that needs to be debugged. (In my case, the "thing" caused two Gungnir MBs to be returned for exchange after a USB interface died. The third time it wasn't exchanged but repaired under warranty. I ended up putting a Wyrd between the Gumby and my computer to stop whatever interaction was going on from happening again. I truly think that this should have been something that I should have been able to talk about constructively without fear of being fired as a customer.)

Just some two cents.

I've met you guys multiple times over multiple years at RMAF, and I do like what you do, and how you interact with customers there.

Tagging @Jason Stoddard so that he can see (and respond) to this, if only on his thread, which I also follow.

With much respect.

 

[HumanFly]

I so far have only see them react in the way you describe when people, usually in the first post, started complaining and assuming all was lost without even asking for help.
Often in a way that seems aimed at generating negative exposure because their (not always very reasonable) demands were not met instantly by Schiit.
Mostly they were just told this is not the channel to vent these complaints in that manner.

I do not recall people being fired but I can imagine that if you run the company and still take the time to respond to customer-complaints it can feel very liberating to fire one of those a-holes once in a while.
I bet if you take the normal route via customer service(and when needed ask politely for help from Jason or Mike) you run a very low risk of ever being fired.
Having worked in shops I can tell you that people who think they can demand stuff are not always in a position to do so and quite often it turns out that they just broke the gear themselves.
Not everthing is what it seems when it comes to the customer being always right.

Edit:
just my opinion by the way. Maybe they are just plain horrible people out to cause maximum grieve to friendly audiofiles. So far my Schiit didn`t break so I wouldn`t know anyway.

 

[FrivolsListener]

I so far have only see them react in the way you describe when people, usually in the first post, started complaining and assuming all was lost without even asking for help.
Often in a way that seems aimed at generating negative exposure because their (not always very reasonable) demands were not met instantly by Schiit.
Mostly they were just told this is not the channel to vent these complaints in that manner.

I do not recall people being fired but I can imagine that if you run the company and still take the time to respond to customer-complaints it can feel very liberating to fire one of those a-holes once in a while.
I bet if you take the normal route via customer service(and when needed ask politely for help from Jason or Mike) you run a very low risk of ever being fired.
Having worked in shops I can tell you that people who think they can demand stuff are not always in a position to do so and quite often it turns out that they just broke the gear themselves.
Not everthing is what it seems when it comes to the customer being always right.

Edit:
just my opinion by the way. Maybe they are just plain horrible people out to cause maximum grieve to friendly audiofiles. So far my Schiit didn`t break so I wouldn`t know anyway.

I guess that, when I was younger, I've been that asshole. I had a turntable that wouldn't track properly (A Technics linear-track turntable, no judgement, I was in high school) and all I wanted was it fixed or exchanged, but the dealer refused. I kept going back, showing them what the issue was, and they rebuffed me.

Then I became insistent and grumpy, and refused to buy from them ever again. (Forever turned out to be about 30 years.)

But I've been there and done that, so I understand what it takes to go from what I think is being reasonable to being the jerk who the customer service guy just wants to punch.

 

[Ableza]

The drama and professional jealousy among some audio industry people is ridiculous and destructive, as is the almost religious zeal that some of them exhibit to justify their products existence and why it is The One True Answer (tm). I was never more happy than when I resigned from my last gig in the audio industry following such a drunken encounter exactly as Mr. Moffat describes during CES 2006. The semiconductor industry is much more sane and logical by comparison - more cynical, perhaps, but at least beliefs and pseudo-science are mostly left at the curb.

 

[MWSVette]

I so far have only see them react in the way you describe when people, usually in the first post, started complaining and assuming all was lost without even asking for help.
Often in a way that seems aimed at generating negative exposure because their (not always very reasonable) demands were not met instantly by Schiit.
Mostly they were just told this is not the channel to vent these complaints in that manner.

I do not recall people being fired but I can imagine that if you run the company and still take the time to respond to customer-complaints it can feel very liberating to fire one of those a-holes once in a while.
I bet if you take the normal route via customer service(and when needed ask politely for help from Jason or Mike) you run a very low risk of ever being fired.
Having worked in shops I can tell you that people who think they can demand stuff are not always in a position to do so and quite often it turns out that they just broke the gear themselves.
Not everthing is what it seems when it comes to the customer being always right.

Edit:
just my opinion by the way. Maybe they are just plain horrible people out to cause maximum grieve to friendly audiofiles. So far my Schiit didn`t break so I wouldn`t know anyway.

Yep there are some horrible customers out there.

Jason just had one of those recently. He fully refunded the purchase and waived the restocking fees.

At the time my first thought was great customer service. Then I began to think that it could set a bad precedent for future complainers. I probably would have stuck to company policy.

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

Yep there are some horrible customers out there.

Jason just had one of those recently.. He fully refunded the purchase and waived the restocking fees.

At the time my first thought was great customer service. Then I began to think that it could set a bad precedent for future complainers. I probably would have stuck to company policy.

My first thoughts would be to stick with company policy as well but then you'd have to put up with more of this character than you might wish. Waiving the restocking fee is a small price to pay to send him on his way.

JC

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

and banned him from the thread