[MetalElvis]

Where in between would you place LCD-3 and SR-009 in my charts?
 
Treble chart
 
1. HD800 (brightest)
2. T1
3. D7000 *
4. LCD-2 / HD600 **
5. HD650 (darkest)
 
* D7000 is fairly bright, but unfortunately the treble is very spiky and harsh
 
** I gave LCD-2 and HD600 a shared place, although LCD-2 goes higher than HD600 which have the highs rolled off, but LCD-2 have recessed upper mids (which make them sound soft and pleasent) while HD600 have more upper mids, which make these headphones sound quite similar with treble levels. I must also mention that HD600 treble is more harsh and lo-fi than LCD-2.
 
Bass chart
 
1. D7000 * (most bass)
2. LCD-2
3. HD650
4. HD600
5. T1
6. HD800 (least bass)
 
* While D7000 has the most bass level, to me LCD-2 has the best bass being more controlled and articulate.
 
So do you think I´m right with my charts and where would you place the LCD-3 and SR-009 in them?
 
 

 

[sachu]

I see a lot of people, professional and amateur reviwers auditioning gear in terms of treble and bass. This includes me till I came to a better understanding of the music. To me its about tonality, timing and phase coherence these days. The phase coherence is more of an issue with speakers, though digital sources play into this as well. However but the other two are universal.
 
edit: i see i may not have contributed much if any at all to your post, but just something i wanted to say nonetheless.

 

[MetalElvis]

Anyone?

 

[snaps11]

HD 800 lowest on the bass chart? Really?  I have the HD-650 and HD-800 and with my particular pair there is more bass and texture than what the HD-650 could ever dish out.

 

[K_19]

HD800 definitely goes down lower than the HD650, and it's very noticeable on every listen. Got both, too.
 
HD650 has thicker, weightier midbass, sure. But lacking compared to the HD800 is subbass area.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

HD800 definitely goes down lower than the HD650, and it's very noticeable on every listen. Got both, too.
 
HD650 has thicker, weightier midbass, sure. But lacking compared to the HD800 is subbass area.

And lacking in bass quality and control....let's not forget about them. Impact is only part of the picture.

 
The best bass quality I've heard is from the LCD-3s and then very closely the LCD-2s overall. But the HD800s do get very honourable mention for quality/control.
 

 

[Maxvla]

Taking your chart and adding my rankings for the phones you asked about. Some of your rankings I don't agree with, but I'll leave them as is.

Treble Chart

1. HD800 (brightest) = SR-009 (but cleaner than the HD800)
2. T1 = LCD3 (but cleaner than the T1)
3. D7000 *
4. LCD-2 / HD600 **
5. HD650 (darkest)

Bass chart

1. D7000 * (most bass)
2. LCD-2 = LCD3 (very similar)
3. HD650
4. HD600 = SR-009 (goes significantly deeper, but is polite and reminds me of how my HD600 dealt with bass, not a lot of quantity, but doesn't feel like it disappears like HD600 can do)
5. T1
6. HD800 (least bass)

These rankings are merely for their treble brightness or bass quantity. The LCD3 to me has better total bass than anything short of some stats (HE90, Jades). The LCD3 treble is just as smooth as the LCD2, but is brighter without being harsh. I feel it's a more accurate balance than the LCD2. The SR-009 has probably the best treble of any headphone I've heard. Clean, clear, spacious, magical really. It's a shame I don't like the SR-009 as a total package. Maybe it's not a shame, though with it's sticker and associated 'required' gear. Short of the HE90, total package I prefer the LCD3 (of all headphones) with the right setup.

 

[MetalElvis]

Yes! Thank you! That´s what I wanted to hear. Looks like the LCD-3 might be my dream headphones (although they are not very comfortable). The LCD-2 almost was soundwise, but didn´t like the recessed upper middle.
 
And yes this thread was only about the bass/treble level/quantity, not quality, although you are free to comment on the quality too, but I was merely interested on the levels/quantity of LCD-3 and SR-009.
 
About HD800 bass, it might go deeper than HD650/600, but what´s the point when you can´t hear it? To me HD800 sounds like a thin radio without bass, just very hyped and boosted highs, that hurts my ears physically. Far from natural neutral sound.
 
Quote:

Taking your chart and adding my rankings for the phones you asked about. Some of your rankings I don't agree with, but I'll leave them as is.
Treble Chart
1. HD800 (brightest) = SR-009 (but cleaner than the HD800)
2. T1 = LCD3 (but cleaner than the T1)
3. D7000 *
4. LCD-2 / HD600 **
5. HD650 (darkest)
Bass chart

1. D7000 * (most bass)
2. LCD-2 = LCD3 (very similar)
3. HD650
4. HD600 = SR-009 (goes significantly deeper, but is polite and reminds me of how my HD600 dealt with bass, not a lot of quantity, but doesn't feel like it disappears like HD600 can do)
5. T1
6. HD800 (least bass)
These rankings are merely for their treble brightness or bass quantity. The LCD3 to me has better total bass than anything short of some stats (HE90, Jades). The LCD3 treble is just as smooth as the LCD2, but is brighter without being harsh. I feel it's a more accurate balance than the LCD2. The SR-009 has probably the best treble of any headphone I've heard. Clean, clear, spacious, magical really. It's a shame I don't like the SR-009 as a total package. Maybe it's not a shame, though with it's sticker and associated 'required' gear. Short of the HE90, total package I prefer the LCD3 (of all headphones) with the right setup.

 

 

[Naim.F.C]

 

Interesting chart. Whilst I haven't heard the LCD-3's yet, I have heard both LCD2's, and over at the official thread a lot of people seem to think the LCD2.1's are brighter or more treble hot than the LCD3's, which apparently are a mid way between the LCD2.1's and LCD2.2's. That said, I think the key area where the headphones such as the T1's/HD800's excel over the LCD2's (and again, from reading, the LCD3's) is in sound stage. This isn't something that is brought up much, but with my personal experiences I feel there's quite a difference in sound stage sizing between the cans. In order from biggest to smallest being HD800 > T1 > LCD2. Can't speak for the other cans since I haven't heard them. Unless the D7000 is similar to the D5000 in soundstage, which is quite congested compared to the other higher tier cans, but personally I find a lot of cans that are bass heavier tend to be.
 
Quote:

Taking your chart and adding my rankings for the phones you asked about. Some of your rankings I don't agree with, but I'll leave them as is.
Treble Chart
1. HD800 (brightest) = SR-009 (but cleaner than the HD800)
2. T1 = LCD3 (but cleaner than the T1)
3. D7000 *
4. LCD-2 / HD600 **
5. HD650 (darkest)
Bass chart

1. D7000 * (most bass)
2. LCD-2 = LCD3 (very similar)
3. HD650
4. HD600 = SR-009 (goes significantly deeper, but is polite and reminds me of how my HD600 dealt with bass, not a lot of quantity, but doesn't feel like it disappears like HD600 can do)
5. T1
6. HD800 (least bass)
These rankings are merely for their treble brightness or bass quantity. The LCD3 to me has better total bass than anything short of some stats (HE90, Jades). The LCD3 treble is just as smooth as the LCD2, but is brighter without being harsh. I feel it's a more accurate balance than the LCD2. The SR-009 has probably the best treble of any headphone I've heard. Clean, clear, spacious, magical really. It's a shame I don't like the SR-009 as a total package. Maybe it's not a shame, though with it's sticker and associated 'required' gear. Short of the HE90, total package I prefer the LCD3 (of all headphones) with the right setup.

 

 

[snaps11]

For some reason I thought the same thing with my first pair.  The highs were completely out of control.  On the second and third pair this seems to have disappeared and have much more bass.  You may want to go and try another pair of new HD-800s.
 
Quote:

 
About HD800 bass, it might go deeper than HD650/600, but what´s the point when you can´t hear it? To me HD800 sounds like a thin radio without bass, just very hyped and boosted highs, that hurts my ears physically. Far from natural neutral sound.
 


 

 

 

[MetalElvis]

Quote:

For some reason I thought the same thing with my first pair.  The highs were completely out of control.  On the second and third pair this seems to have disappeared and have much more bass.  You may want to go and try another pair of new HD-800s.
 


 

That´s weird. But no thanks, I think I´ll just wait for the HD900. Hopefully it will have a "bass upgrade". I´m a big Sennheiser fan, but they clearly failed with the HD800 in my book.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

That´s weird. But no thanks, I think I´ll just wait for the HD900. Hopefully it will have a "bass upgrade". I´m a big Sennheiser fan, but they clearly failed with the HD800 in my book.

Really?  How so?  It is a headphone that needs to be pampered with gear tailored specifically to it, and be fronted by a source with a superior word clock and virtually zero phase distortion.  That remedies 90% of the bass and treble issues that I've read about on here.  Have you ever heard them on a really, high-end system?  And before you say yes, what gear was being used?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Really?  How so?  It is a headphone that needs to be pampered with gear tailored specifically to it, and be fronted by a source with a superior word clock and virtually zero phase distortion.  That remedies 90% of the bass and treble issues that I've read about on here.  Have you ever heard them on a really, high-end system?  And before you say yes, what gear was being used?

I think that's one of the issues with the HD800s....if they are run as you so eloquently put it, they can sound problematic. But when you get the match to work (amp/dac/source/etc...), they pay you off in spades for your effort. Again, IMHO...YMMV...yada yada yada.

 

[MetalElvis]

I´ve listened them with Phonitor and BCL. I think those are "good enough", wouldn´t you agree? HD800 are the most bassless headphones I´ve ever heard and the most painfully brightest (like I listed).
 
Quote:

Really?  How so?  It is a headphone that needs to be pampered with gear tailored specifically to it, and be fronted by a source with a superior word clock and virtually zero phase distortion.  That remedies 90% of the bass and treble issues that I've read about on here.  Have you ever heard them on a really, high-end system?  And before you say yes, what gear was being used?

By the way from my charts one could also point out the most "neutral" headphones, when looking at the middle rankings.
 
-HD600 is in 4. place in both charts, so that´s probably the most "neutral" pair of those. (A little bit dull sounding, not enough treble and bass, but not shooting over the top like HD800 and D7000.)
 
-LCD-2 and T1 comes next, T1 being more bright, but LCD-2 having more bass. (Oh if only LCD-2 would just have more treble and T1 would have more bass!!!)
 
-HD800 and D7000 far from neutral. (HD800 being the most extreme treble and thinnest bass and D7000 the most extreme bass with spiky treble.)

 

[MacedonianHero]

^^
 
LoL, then you haven't heard the K701s or SRH940s for "bass lacking" headphones? The HD800s are bass monsters next to them IMO. I find the HD800's bass quite good (and amongst the best for quality...only beaten by my LCD-3s in that regard).