[tjkohli]

Most people are probably not aware because they've never heard an aftermarket sound system in a car.

But almost all factory option sound systems are crap compared to what you can build aftermarket. Even the B&O, Mark Levinson, etc. The only one that looks promising is the macintosh system on the Jeep Wagoneer. Maybe on the ultra luxurious cars it might be a different story but I highly doubt it. I wouldn't know either way.

Totally makes sense — at the same time, I've seen on a lot of recent high-end cars (or mid-market cars with high-end audio systems) that sound like total crap. For example, B&O today is not what it used to be 5-10 years ago; I heard it in a BMW 5 series, and it sounded terrible. Modern automotive B&O is HARMAN — which is Samsung. I also heard a Bose system on a rental Nissan Maxima, and it sounded worse than many OEM stereos.

One of the best automotive stereos I've heard is a Bowers & Wilkins setup in a 2011 Jaguar. It was divine.

Perhaps a lot of automakers lately are just doing badge engineering to sell more options?

 

[dougms3]

Totally makes sense — at the same time, I've seen on a lot of recent high-end cars (or mid-market cars with high-end audio systems) that sound like total crap. For example, B&O today is not what it used to be 5-10 years ago; I heard it in a BMW 5 series, and it sounded terrible. Modern automotive B&O is HARMAN — which is Samsung. I also heard a Bose system on a rental Nissan Maxima, and it sounded worse than many OEM stereos.

One of the best automotive stereos I've heard is a Bowers & Wilkins setup in a Jaguar. It was divine.

Perhaps a lot of automakers lately are just doing badge engineering to sell more options?

The problem is that they don't want to overload the factory 12v system.

If you can imagine trying to power your home audio system with 12v, its difficult to make it sound good.

The car manufacturers always use very efficient speakers and low power amps and subs because they're on the hook for warranty repairs if its too much power draw and damages anything. Bass hits from a powerful sub can draw tons of power and cause detrimental voltage drops.

Car electrical repairs are extremely time consuming and tedious.

 

[DigitalJust]

Sound quality in a car...is a mf'er. I used to compete for SQ in usac 0 to 100 watt and iasca events 151 to 300 watt. Worst acoustic environment, not symmetrical, glass everywhere etc.

With that said it is not much different than spec'ing drivers for building audiophile home speakers. Focal, dynaudio, vifa, etc. There is time and phase alignment, active crossovers, mini dsp and other products to deal with certain things.

In a car its location, driver selection for the application (the enclousure or lack of), power. And...some cars just sound like crap due to the construction of the vehicle itself.

I could go on at length about this forever. Kick panels, midbass and subwoofers in the floor free air or in aperiodic enclosures, compression horns firing with the windshield as an extension of the horn throat (paired with 8 inch midbass in floor, horns handling 800hz on up), class A amps, nevermind all the analog processing before digital got good.

And this is all before getting into the type of install and integration into the vehicle....flashy install, stealthy, or combo of both.

Most people don't want to live with the compromises and often permanent altercations to support a sq system.

 

[SilverEars]

if we can get rid of the car noise, we can talk SQ. Electric cars would probably be better for a good sound system.

if you're sitting idle, the SQ maybe worth it, if you just sit idle all the time

 

[dougms3]

Sound quality in a car...is a mf'er. I used to compete for SQ in usac 0 to 100 watt and iasca events 151 to 300 watt. Worst acoustic environment, not symmetrical, glass everywhere etc.

With that said it is not much different than spec'ing drivers for building audiophile home speakers. Focal, dynaudio, vifa, etc. There is time and phase alignment, active crossovers, mini dsp and other products to deal with certain things.

In a car its location, driver selection for the application (the enclousure or lack of), power. And...some cars just sound like crap due to the construction of the vehicle itself.

I could go on at length about this forever. Kick panels, midbass and subwoofers in the floor free air or in aperiodic enclosures, compression horns firing with the windshield as an extension of the horn throat (paired with 8 inch midbass in floor, horns handling 800hz on up), class A amps, nevermind all the analog processing before digital got good.

And this is all before getting into the type of install and integration into the vehicle....flashy install, stealthy, or combo of both.

Most people don't want to live with the compromises and often permanent altercations to support a sq system.

It was worth it before all of these unnecessary electronics made their way into cars.

Now, everything is integrated into the headunit, including steering wheel controls, sound system, onboard diagnostics, pretty much everything.

To access the onboard diagnostics menu on my car, I have to go through a weird sequence of flooring the gas pedal and putting the car into manual mode then upshift 5 times then downshift 5 times. Am I trying to access the onboard diag menu or enter the cheat code at contra on nintendo in 1987? I dont know anymore.

Can't even do a simple speaker upgrade because bose wants to use 1ohm speakers on the factory setup.

 

[DigitalJust]

It was worth it before all of these unnecessary electronics made their way into cars.

Now, everything is integrated into the headunit, including steering wheel controls, sound system, onboard diagnostics, pretty much everything.

To access the onboard diagnostics menu on my car, I have to go through a weird sequence of flooring the gas pedal and putting the car into manual mode then upshift 5 times then downshift 5 times. Am I trying to access the onboard diag menu or enter the cheat code at contra on nintendo in 1987? I dont know anymore.

Can't even do a simple speaker upgrade because bose wants to use 1ohm speakers on the factory setup.

You can always integrate anything into a factory headunit via high end interfaces, but it's pretty much all or nothing...high end line out converter or catch a digital signal to feed outboard amps, speakers, etc....or nothing. I feel you on touchscreen everything. At least put climate control on knobs. Lol

There are still people into it, but just like any audiophile type pursuits...it costs beyond what most people expect to do it correctly. People would crap their pants at the cost and detail of just the power supply, wiring and sound dampening costs in competitive system. Nevermind the photo documentation of every aspect or the cost of the rest of the install.

When talking sq builds, not for decibel competition, it wasn't uncommon to see cars with easily six figures into the builds and that was back in the early 2000s!

Still have a sony ES deck (4 x 20 bit burr browns!), multiple Genesis class A amps, and various Focal drivers from back in the day.

Around 2012, i started having to reprogram ecu in bmws to accomodate the mouse fart additional current draw of little class d amps by coding in larger factory batteries...blech! That was when i was done.

 

[RickWilson]

This is a portion of my truck’s competition system, I was fortunate to most of the build
DIY but I’m still about 20-25K out of pocket. If I were to ask a reputable shop to recreate my system, I’d expect to pay ~60-65K. But this is a Top 10 vehicle in the US currently and aside from one, maybe two other in the Top 10, most builds are in this range.

 

[dougms3]

You can always integrate anything into a factory headunit via high end interfaces, but it's pretty much all or nothing...high end line out converter or catch a digital signal to feed outboard amps, speakers, etc....or nothing. I feel you on touchscreen everything. At least put climate control on knobs. Lol

There are still people into it, but just like any audiophile type pursuits...it costs beyond what most people expect to do it correctly. People would crap their pants at the cost and detail of just the power supply, wiring and sound dampening costs in competitive system. Nevermind the photo documentation of every aspect or the cost of the rest of the install.

When talking sq builds, not for decibel competition, it wasn't uncommon to see cars with easily six figures into the builds and that was back in the early 2000s!

Still have a sony ES deck (4 x 20 bit burr browns!), multiple Genesis class A amps, and various Focal drivers from back in the day.

Around 2012, i started having to reprogram ecu in bmws to accomodate the mouse fart additional current draw of little class d amps by coding in larger factory batteries...blech! That was when i was done.

I was never into it as deep as you. I just liked a simple upgrade, I avoided dsps, EQs and anything else that might drastically increase the price of the system.

Usually just speakers, tweeters, maybe crossovers, sub and amps. Just wanted more than stock to tide me over till I get home to my desktop system.

Focal speakers are nice but so much $$.

When you have to reprogram an ecu for the sound system, its not worth it lol.

 

[DigitalJust]

This is a portion of my truck’s competition system, I was fortunate to most of the build
DIY but I’m still about 20-25K out of pocket. If I were to ask a reputable shop to recreate my system, I’d expect to pay ~60-65K. But this is a Top 10 vehicle in the US currently and aside from one, maybe two other in the Top 10, most builds are in this range.

Is that an illusion audio i spy in the floor? Hehe. This is rad. I have fond memories of feeling like i had reinvented the wheel in the late 90s when i started putting subs upfront. It started exactly like this, turned into dumb things like subs in the dash or front airbag cavities.

Im geeking on the upholstery on your A pillar pods. That fabric looks soooo proper. It is definitely my favorite part of your install. I have no idea of the classes or judging criteria for whatever they call the classes where its not what pro or expert classes used to be (where custom install flashiness is as much as sq). I do know id sooooo give that extra criteria point for that fabric. Also...your mids in the dash are nice.

I will take your word that this is of caliber of the current scene of nice car audio. Its very hard to explain the insanity of pro and expert class in the earlier years. It was significantly crazier and got out of hand until they introduced rules to curb crap like points for outlandish crap not related to sound...like motorized everything, back-lit and edge lit everything, fiberglass everything, etc.

I dig your install. As a former installer of wild crap I'd never build for myself...this is like what I'd build for myself. Clean and semi-stealthy with good detail and not a lot of extra flash. Well done.