Why aren't there more electrostatics?
Mar 14, 2011 at 12:10 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

cswann1

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Posts
1,657
Likes
94
For a long time the high-end of headphone audio was the sole domain of the electrostatics.  Then dynamics that were capable of producing very good sounds that were profitable to make and sell for reasonable prices came along and turned headphone audio into a serious hobby for the masses.
 
Now here we are where a person can drop a grand on a pair of headphones and get the "second best" in the lineup. And folks who buy these phones are happy to drop another grand or more on an amp and maybe a few hundred on cable upgrades and such.  Electrostats are still around and still held in very high regard by headphone enthusiasts and now it seems that the market has shown it willingness to support more and more varied products. So why aren't there more electrostats?
 
Are stats now inferior to dynamics?  Are the new Planar Magnetic Hybrids taking over for electrostats?  Or have they always been and will be a niche product who's pros and cons make them only appealing to small segment?
 
Mar 14, 2011 at 1:03 AM Post #2 of 16
Quote:
 
Are stats now inferior to dynamics?  Are the new Planar Magnetic Hybrids taking over for electrostats?  Or have they always been and will be a niche product who's pros and cons make them only appealing to small segment?

Not even close. The new orthos can't touch the top electrostatics. They still sound like dynamics regardless of their planar drivers. Also, there is a new Stax coming out btw, the C32.
 
As you expected, the problem is the high initial investment needed to get an electrostatic system. Next is that it is difficult to find a place that will let you hear some good electrostats. Another problem is that you can't just buy the headphone and plug it into what ever you own. There's also very few good electrostatic amplifiers to choose in this market.
 
I don't know about you, but I've been seeing a lot of demand for Stax lately. My guess is that people are realizing that at the prices they pay for the top tier dynamic systems, they could consider electrostatic systems. $1800 for a Sennheiser HD800? I got a used Stax Omega 2 for $1600 and no matter what amplifer you plug the HD800 in, they will never sound as elegant, effortless, and have the mid range reproduction as the Stax Omega 2 nor any ortho/dynamic for that matter.
 
Dynamics have their advantages in a more impactful presentation of music, but in another sense, it sounds more pressured, while electrostats sound more dispersed. It's good to have both in your system, but to me, it's not really questionable which headphones are better.
 
Mar 14, 2011 at 7:57 AM Post #3 of 16
Magnestats test best? 
tongue.gif

 
 
Mar 14, 2011 at 8:51 AM Post #4 of 16
Not even close. The new orthos can't touch the top electrostatics. They still sound like dynamics regardless of their planar drivers. Also, there is a new Stax coming out btw, the C32.
 
As you expected, the problem is the high initial investment needed to get an electrostatic system. Next is that it is difficult to find a place that will let you hear some good electrostats. Another problem is that you can't just buy the headphone and plug it into what ever you own. There's also very few good electrostatic amplifiers to choose in this market.
 
I don't know about you, but I've been seeing a lot of demand for Stax lately. My guess is that people are realizing that at the prices they pay for the top tier dynamic systems, they could consider electrostatic systems. $1800 for a Sennheiser HD800? I got a used Stax Omega 2 for $1600 and no matter what amplifer you plug the HD800 in, they will never sound as elegant, effortless, and have the mid range reproduction as the Stax Omega 2 nor any ortho/dynamic for that matter.
 
Dynamics have their advantages in a more impactful presentation of music, but in another sense, it sounds more pressured, while electrostats sound more dispersed. It's good to have both in your system, but to me, it's not really questionable which headphones are better.


electrostatic HPs have a lot to offer at many price levels and sound sigs but have their limitations and risks, and these are somewhat more apparent for cheaper/older HP. (still not quite sure if people can use them with evaporative cooling or high humidity either, sounds like a no even for the new 'humidity resistant' sr-507 by the recent posts in the new stax thread. ). The other problems I personally had was clipping at higher levels than I needed for some classical on weaker driver units (SRM-252, SRM-300) (won't happen to many though, usually people's ears bleed first from the levels I listen to)

You have the brighter 303/404, the more neutral 202, the very decent 404LE and the new x07 series, the Omegas and the up-coming C32?

The entry level 252a system can be had for very little ($400ish)used and offers a better performance in some aspects than dynamics (bass extension and amount not being one of them, first thing you'll think will be 'effortlesshighsandmids'). Used driver units and Lambdas or SR-404/303 are probably next up at 600-1000 depending on the condition/models. Aside from the mids etch and brightness that not everyone likes and still not quite right bass do very well for vocals, orchestral and even rock (at least my 404 did, albeit being boomy but nto very deep in the low end).

Many consider Omegas to be somewhat dark, but then comment on the 'omgbestbassftw'

Probably the best overall price/balanced sound (and similar level components) system would be something involving a SS driver unit and 507 or 407, and it'll likely be around 1.2-2.0k used <-> new. (by the same token you can probably get a 30 y.o. SRM-1/mk2 and fairly used Omegas)... or the slightly funner and more suitable for casual listening SR-404LE...Or a tube unit, but that'll likely be used.

Keep in mind that buying used is not risk free, and probably won't be good if things break (and you could be in some cases buying 20-30 year old used things for > $1k). Local distributors/repairers will skin you alive (and are dangerously not very honest for the money they charge, at least in Australia (lie through their teeth about testing before sending your things back when there's clearly a dead resistor in pro-bias section), or technically good (forget to replace one of the 4 electrolytic caps that's 30 years old). Shipping them back to Stax is probably no better, at least price-wise.


Don't get me wrong, I'll probably never go back to dynamics for mids (and since getting SR-507 for most other genres, including those that need representative bass). LCD-2, HD800, T1, etc aren't really winning in any aspects for orchestral classical or soloist + orchestral or strings or voice.

last but not least - 4070 is the only closed ESHP. And they seem to have a very specific sound signature that's errr, well, 'monitor' like, and not really to everyone's taste to be put mildly.

Interestingly, I find Beyer DT48e with EQed up bass to have a fairly similar mids/highs area (404ish). But they have bear hug comfort and 'really nice' awful pleater pads/headband...
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 3:23 AM Post #6 of 16
'Stats are a niche within a niche. You have to be really serious about headphones before you get into them. Further, they require a different kind of amp that doesn't come cheap.

I'm not sure if you can break into the field as a new manufacturer easily, either. Stax has sewn up a big part of the marketshare while Sennheiser has abandoned the market. There are occasional rumors that Sennheiser is coming back, but I haven't heard anything serious.

Also, it can be cheaper to go with an electrostatic speaker system. To get an O2 and something like a Blue Hawaii can run over $6,000. You can usually find Quad ESLs in excellent condition for $2,000 or less. A good amp for those can be found reasonably, too. I paid around $650 for my ESL-63s and about $700 for a Conrad-Johnson MV-52 which drives them nicely. That was roughly what I paid for an O2 Mk. 1, but without an amp.

I like the Quads better. The O2 is awfully good, but it'll never have the soundstage of the Quads.
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM Post #7 of 16
Thanks for the great replies everyone.
 
It would be really great if another manufacturer or two would break into ESs.  I think the competition to Stax would be great for all involved, most of all the consumer.  If nothing else it might make Stax restyle their lower models :p
 
The Woo Wee is a very interesting product that has spured some new interest in stats.  I've been reading a lot about it and like anything else there are the ayes and the nays.  But the nays seem to be mostly from those that are already into electrostats and are performance purists. This product will allow the entry into the world of electrostats to come down to realms more accessible.
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 5:04 PM Post #8 of 16
Thanks for the great replies everyone.
 
It would be really great if another manufacturer or two would break into ESs.  I think the competition to Stax would be great for all involved, most of all the consumer.  If nothing else it might make Stax restyle their lower models :p
 
The Woo Wee is a very interesting product that has spured some new interest in stats.  I've been reading a lot about it and like anything else there are the ayes and the nays.  But the nays seem to be mostly from those that are already into electrostats and are performance purists. This product will allow the entry into the world of electrostats to come down to realms more accessible.
 
 
 
 


Not everyone has a speaker amp. For those who don't, it's probably better to the 323s, even if you pay more.
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 5:40 PM Post #10 of 16
It would help too if the distributor didn't suck (at least in the USA). The US distributer doesn't pick up the phone, doesn't exactly get retailers to push the products, and the retailers can't get their hands on the items a lot of the time.
 
Mar 24, 2011 at 3:01 AM Post #11 of 16
Koss ESP-950s ???
 
I wanna get me some and plug em into my KGSSHV.
Gonna audition some at a local meet in the near future.
I've heard that the phones are very good, although the amp-energizer is not.
We'll see.
 
 
Mar 24, 2011 at 3:51 AM Post #12 of 16
Koss ESP-950s ???
 
I wanna get me some and plug em into my KGSSHV.
Gonna audition some at a local meet in the near future.
I've heard that the phones are very good, although the amp-energizer is not.
We'll see.
 


need the actual hp and the plug->stax socket adapter. :frowning2: but yea, I wouldn't mind trying a pair. I got scared off buying them because people at the time were citing a lot of problems (some sort of squeaking noises and channel imbalance)
 
Mar 24, 2011 at 4:36 AM Post #13 of 16
Here in Australia the purchase price from the authorised Stax dealer is at a significant premium to what can be purchased internationally.  Even though the Ozzie dollar, at this moment, is equal to the US dollar the local prices are a bit of a rort.  Check these:
 
SRH-507 $1599
SRH-007 Mk 2 - $4199
SRM-600 LTD - $2899
SRM-727 Mk 2 - $3749
SRM-007t Mk 2 - $4099
 
This is a major reason why Stax doesn't enjoy greater market share here.  Come to think of it though it does make the KGSS look like good value. 
 
Mar 24, 2011 at 5:33 AM Post #15 of 16
Here in Australia the purchase price from the authorised Stax dealer is at a significant premium to what can be purchased internationally.  Even though the Ozzie dollar, at this moment, is equal to the US dollar the local prices are a bit of a rort.  Check these:
 
SRH-507 $1599
SRH-007 Mk 2 - $4199
SRM-600 LTD - $2899
SRM-727 Mk 2 - $3749
SRM-007t Mk 2 - $4099
 
This is a major reason why Stax doesn't enjoy greater market share here.  Come to think of it though it does make the KGSS look like good value. 


lol, that's 2x what I paid at pricejapan.Maybe they forgot that aud is no longer 1/2 of usd :D ?

even makes BH look relatively cheap
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top