Will This Be Called The Westone "Epic" Tip?
Mar 5, 2013 at 8:44 PM Post #121 of 207
The ES5 is my first and only CIEM so far. To me, the ES5 is an upgrade from the 4R, especially in terms of bass and mids. The isolation is also greatly improved.
 
I bought my ES5 through my local dealer since I am living in HK. Overall the buying experience is ok, except that unlike other companies like UE/JH, which provide you notifications on each stage of the CIEM making process, there is no notifications from Westone at all, and I just waited for 1.5 month after I submit my ear mold to my dealer and paid, and the ES5 finally arrived.
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 3:24 AM Post #122 of 207
I did a lengthy comparison of the new W4 Star tips vs UM56 custom tips for another forum member a couple of months ago, and thought I posted it here before I got sicker and stopped posting for a few weeks.  I can't find the MINI-REVIEW HERE so I'm posting it again.
 
 
 
W4R TIP REVIEW - JAN 2013:
 
I started listening to the W4R out of my DACmini, and also tried them my iTunes + Pico DAC + Pico Slim for a lower output impedance.  I pulled out my lossless rips of various audiophile recordings like Chesky's Best Audiophile Voices I & II.  I also played some various electronic music, and some jazz and folk such as Josephine Cronholm "Wild Garden" and others like Jimmy Cobb Quartet "Jazz in the Key of Blue".  Then I tried a few pop albums like from The White Tie Affair and 3OH3! that have crappy masterings.  
 
Remember that doing tip changes is pretty slow which makes it difficult to hang onto the auditory memory of the previous tips.
 
TREBLE - With the new universal Star tips the sound is nicely balanced with better treble transparency, detail, sparkle, and air vs the old universal tips.  The lower treble echo or resonance with the old tips is gone in the new ones as well.  However, there can sometimes be a hint of sibilance lingering around the corner with the new tips, that doesn't quite ever qualify as real sibilance.  This improved a good bit when I switched to the Pico Slim amp, or the HiFiMan HM-801 music player.  
 
Switching to the UM56 tips I find things are slightly less bright than the new universal tips, and smoother.  However, the levels of treble are an improvement over the old tips.  And the treble with the new tips or UM56 is less artificial than with the old tips or modded triple flange.  
 
At first I wasn't sure which tip is best.  With poor quality recordings like brick-walled pop music I felt that the UM56 are a little more forgiving.  However, with clean recordings like Jimmy Cobb Quartet "Jazz in the Key of Blue" in 24/96, or R.E.M. "Automatic for the People" in 24/96, Ryan Adams "Ashes & Fire", and Renee Olstead's title album I greatly preferred the new Star universe tips' treble (a lot, not by just a little) and this was a strong check-mark in favor of the new universal tips. 
 
MIDRANGE - The UM56 tips bring the mids a little more forward than either of the universal tips, but the new universal Star tips are still fuller sounding than the old ones.  And there is a little bit of added lower-mids bloom and warmth with the UM56 tips.  Again, it's a small difference in sound between the two and it can vary depending on the recording as to which presentation is better.  Overall I would pick the ones with less coloration.  So, in the midrange I prefer the new universal tips more, especially with female vocal music for example where the singers sound a little too close-mic'd with the UM56.  
 
I played with the iTunes EQ and found that if I took out 3 dB at 250Hz it improved the UM56, but it improved further if I also took out 2-3 dB at 125Hz with the UM56 tips.  This is similar to the EQ I saved for my D2000 and M-100 full size phones.  I have never tried EQ with the W4 before this, and I don't need ANY EQ with the Star universal tips.  Th UM56/W4 upper-bass/lower-mids bloom does improve some with a low output impedance amp like the Pico DAC > Pico Slim, but there is still a little of this issue with the UM56 remaining - so it's improved with an amp change but not fixed.  It was a bigger improvement to switch to the Star tips.  This is the one area where the UM56 can be a negative for me with the W4R; however, with the W3 it's been a perfect match.
 
Note - Normally I only insert the universal tips in just enough to get a seal, and the sound is most balanced that way (shallow insertion preferred).  But f I push the universal tips really deep into my ear I get the same effect of increasing the midrange bloom and bass bleed.  Overall, with the proper positioning of the new universal Star tips I prefer the mids with them over the UM56.
 
BASS - The bass with the UM56 is tight and controlled, fast and detailed.  It's punchy and strong but doesn't get boosted to the impact level of the W3 unless it's called for.  i.e. it doesn't over-do a string bass, but when electronic music calls for pounding bass it's there in spades.  I have no complaints there.  Switching to the new universal Star tips I found that the bass was very similar to the UM56 but without the upper-bass/lower-mids bloom there anymore.  I felt there is an illusion of slightly less impact than the UM56 because of the lack of bloom.  It's not really a trade-off and the bass still feels just as detailed and effortless with the new Star tips.
 
SUMMARY - The only areas that the UM56 clearly stand ahead of the new universal tips are in regards to increased isolation and superior comfort.  I think I get an extra 10-12 dB of isolation with them.  I've been spoiled by the comfort of my custom IEMs, so I'm often ready to take the W4 out of my ears after just an hour or so with the old universal tips.  But with Complys and UM56 or customs I can leave them in for several hours.  But in terms of sound, I can't say that the UM56 are any better than the new Star tips when used with the W4, and overall the Star tips make more sense if you want a less colored midrange.  Although, the UM56 do beat the older tips with a smoother more open and natural and transparent treble, I think the UM56 are a better match with the W3 because they fill out the mids and bring the mids up to the same level as the bass and treble, while smoothing out the treble.
 
With the Star tips the W4 span the gap between the less expensive custom IEM and the high-end ones.  The W4 would destroy my previously owned Alien Ears C3 customs and Freq Show 3-driver customs, and still hold an edge over my current Livewires and SE-530 customs as well.  But the high end customs are still in a different league than the budget ones.  My ES5, JH13Pro, or JH16Pro Freq-phase, or my ES3X still beat the W4, but not so much that I do not greatly enjoy the W4R.  My UE11Pro have an upper-bass and mid-bass bloom but with a nice low impedance amp (esp my Woo WA6) the UE11Pro are still preferred much of the time.  I'm sorry that I don't have something like the UE4Pro or JH5Pro to compare to the W4.
 
To my ears the W4 with old tips are most like an LCD-2 rev1 and quite good for a universal fit IEM, but with the new Star tips they are more like an LCD-2 rev2 that came out as an upgrade.  For me the Star tip is a noticeable step up in sound over the old stock tips.  In the end, the new Star universal tips are as good as they ever need to be, unless you find the comfort and isolation are not good enough.  But rather than invest in UM56 for the W4R, at that point I might suggest considering a high-end custom IEM if you need a custom fit for isolation and comfort.

 
Mar 6, 2013 at 11:05 AM Post #123 of 207
I much prefer the star tips over my UM56.  Yes, isolation is far superior on UM56 but how much isolation does one need.  I find the UM56 presentation too "in the head" and closed in  (like UM3X) sounding.  The soundstage seems much larger with star tips and there is a really nice amount of space and air.  It's a no-brainer to me.
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 12:44 PM Post #124 of 207
Great comparison Larry! I love my star tips!
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 3:38 PM Post #126 of 207
The ES5 is my first and only CIEM so far. To me, the ES5 is an upgrade from the 4R, especially in terms of bass and mids. The isolation is also greatly improved.

I bought my ES5 through my local dealer since I am living in HK. Overall the buying experience is ok, except that unlike other companies like UE/JH, which provide you notifications on each stage of the CIEM making process, there is no notifications from Westone at all, and I just waited for 1.5 month after I submit my ear mold to my dealer and paid, and the ES5 finally arrived.

Thanks for the information! :)
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 5:45 PM Post #127 of 207
Well I was more concerned with the sound signature comparison to the W4R and buying experience and then how they rank against different customs.

Ah cool, so in this case it can be said that the more BA doesn't mean that it will sound better. The sound signature and the type of music suits different people with different IEM / CIEM I guess ?
 
Mar 7, 2013 at 2:34 PM Post #128 of 207
That's what they told me - 5 pairs of the same size per bag. I'll know for sure in a few days when they arrive.


Got then yesterday and yes, it is 10 tips per bag , all the same size. Now I have Star tips on all of my Westone(8), Shure(3) and Earsonics(3) IEMs.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
 
Mar 7, 2013 at 4:31 PM Post #129 of 207
Many pardons if this question has been asked already but I emailed Westone customer service 4 days ago asking about these new tips and have yet to get an answer. Is there someone specific I have to email to get these tips sent out to me or a specific email I have to send the request to? Something else that concerns me, how does one figure out which size of tips to choose. I usually use Comply T500's medium sized on my Westone 4 if anyone whose used those sized Comply's could chime in what color bore he/she used I would be very grateful
 
Mar 7, 2013 at 4:43 PM Post #130 of 207
Quote:
Many pardons if this question has been asked already but I emailed Westone customer service 4 days ago asking about these new tips and have yet to get an answer. Is there someone specific I have to email to get these tips sent out to me or a specific email I have to send the request to? Something else that concerns me, how does one figure out which size of tips to choose. I usually use Comply T500's medium sized on my Westone 4 if anyone whose used those sized Comply's could chime in what color bore he/she used I would be very grateful

See post #110 in this thread. I called them to order. As for sizes, I had already received some Westone IEMs that included the new tips, so I was able to try them all.
 
Mar 7, 2013 at 5:03 PM Post #131 of 207
Quote:
See post #110 in this thread. I called them to order. As for sizes, I had already received some Westone IEMs that included the new tips, so I was able to try them all.


Thank you sir, I shall give them a call tomorrow
beerchug.gif

 
Mar 7, 2013 at 7:43 PM Post #132 of 207
Many pardons if this question has been asked already but I emailed Westone customer service 4 days ago asking about these new tips and have yet to get an answer. Is there someone specific I have to email to get these tips sent out to me or a specific email I have to send the request to? Something else that concerns me, how does one figure out which size of tips to choose. I usually use Comply T500's medium sized on my Westone 4 if anyone whose used those sized Comply's could chime in what color bore he/she used I would be very grateful

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Mar 8, 2013 at 8:49 AM Post #135 of 207
Quote:
Got then yesterday and yes, it is 10 tips per bag , all the same size. Now I have Star tips on all of my Westone(8), Shure(3) and Earsonics(3) IEMs.
 

and TDK BA200.
 

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