[davehg]

I drive a pair of ProAc's with my WA5 - sounds great. 
 
Not surprised at the measurements. SET and triode tube amps almost always measure poorly. One of my favorite speaker amps, the Air Tight ATM3, was once described by Sphile as measuring "broken" but the reviewer loved it, as did I.

 

[LajostheHun]

If it was a Fiio amp that sells for $100 I would write those measurements off too. For almost 6 grand and from an audio engineering POV those figures are inexcusable.So is the fact that Atkinson neglected to truly measure or provide figures for actual HP output, since Woo failed to meet the speaker output specs miserably, with pitiful performance of cross talk IM, and THD, as well, this would have been essential since it is marketed as a HP amp first. I guess he didn't wanna further contradict the subjective review any further, or risk any advertiser revenue as well.
Can't be too surprised! :rolleyes:

 

[ghhf]

ouch!


http://www.stereophile.com/content/woo-audio-wa5-integrated-amplifierheadphone-amplifier-measurements#vTTAZ8XMkmU8WJec.97

Well, I prefer to trust my own human ears rather than instruments measurements, that makes more sense as *I* listen to the *music* not doing instruments sampling
 
And after all, tube upgrade/ rolling，and other fine tuning，matching to best fit personal taste is the key for anything impressive.

 

[Porteroso]

If it was a Fiio amp that sells for $100 I would write those measurements off too. For almost 6 grand and from an audio engineering POV those figures are inexcusable.So is the fact that Atkinson neglected to truly measure or provide figures for actual HP output, since Woo failed to meet the speaker output specs miserably, with pitiful performance of cross talk IM, and THD, as well, this would have been essential since it is marketed as a HP amp first. I guess he didn't wanna further contradict the subjective review any further, or risk any advertiser revenue as well.
Can't be too surprised!

The Woo's performance with headphones has been talked about positively by all who have heard it. Some will make the case that it is overpriced, others think it's fair. Whether or not the Woo is a good headphone amp isn't really up for discussion, only its price point is. 
 
The reviewer was measuring the speaker outputs, which is something that I've never seen before. That is useful. You have some reviews that say it does extremely well with speakers, but this lets you know that you'd better be using some incredibly efficient speakers, and not need much volume. That is the basis for the review, to review that part of the amp that's mostly glossed over in other reviews.
 
I think it's valid to try to read between the lines and figure out why the reviewer did not measure the hp output, but I don't think it's valid to write off the WA5 completely just because the reviewer didn't. It seems to me that if I read through your post history (I won't), I'd find that you either don't like Woo, or  you don't like tubes. Negative Nancy's are dime a dozen, glad that they don't stick their heads in here often.

 

[LajostheHun]

The Woo's performance with headphones has been talked about positively by all who have heard it. Some will make the case that it is overpriced, others think it's fair. Whether or not the Woo is a good headphone amp isn't really up for discussion, only its price point is. 

The reviewer was measuring the speaker outputs, which is something that I've never seen before. That is useful. You have some reviews that say it does extremely well with speakers, but this lets you know that you'd better be using some incredibly efficient speakers, and not need much volume. That is the basis for the review, to review that part of the amp that's mostly glossed over in other reviews.

I think it's valid to try to read between the lines and figure out why the reviewer did not measure the hp output, but I don't think it's valid to write off the WA5 completely just because the reviewer didn't. It seems to me that if I read through your post history (I won't), I'd find that you either don't like Woo, or  you don't like tubes. Negative Nancy's are dime a dozen, glad that they don't stick their heads in here often.

You assume too much aren't you and you know what they say about that or ad hominem attacks? Go ahead read through my posts you're not gonna find either of your 'suspicions" However I do loathe fanboys [ fanboyus wankerus] But just to be clear I'm much more annoyed by Stereophile here than Woo, as I'm simply disappointed with these figures. Atkinson does say that the HP out put has similar problems when it is concerned with distortion figures, he just didn't post them nor did the true power figures which is a disservice to readers and prospective buyers alike. Also there is no dedicated WA5 thread[I did a search] hence why I posted here, if it's not welcome that's OK since the info however it is not complete is more important than fanboy reactions like yours.

 

[davehg]

If you are looking for strong measurements with SET amps, you need to look elsewhere. I've yet to read an article where SET amps, especially 300b amps, do well in measurements. Tubes amps can measure well (look at the excellent VTL Signature series and certain Audio Research amps). But 300b and 845 and 2A4 and similar radio based tube amps almost uniformly perform horribly on the test bench.

If you think an amp is only as good as its measured specs, no 300b amp will please you, as they are inherently compromised. Stereophile admits as much in their review of the Jadis 300b amp. Check out their commentary on measurements vs. listening results, after the Jadis measured horribly but was heard to sound wonderful.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/jadis-se300b-monoblock-amplifier-measurements-ivsi-listening#7VUxgXvVasm2uvj5.97

 

[phase0]

I thought in general tube amps had more distortion and there's some allowance there for dealing with tubes. When I started looking at Woo Amps I was in a 'must have tubes' mindset so not much would deter me. If I saw a post about terrible measurements it might throw me off. I'm not an expert by any means. Fortunately I do think the WA5 sounds wonderful.
 
I tried to search for someone who can explain it a bit...
 
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm
 
 

 

[davehg]

  I thought in general tube amps had more distortion and there's some allowance there for dealing with tubes. When I started looking at Woo Amps I was in a 'must have tubes' mindset so not much would deter me. If I saw a post about terrible measurements it might throw me off. I'm not an expert by any means. Fortunately I do think the WA5 sounds wonderful.
 
I tried to search for someone who can explain it a bit...
 
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm
 
 
 

 
For DACs and preamps, measurements are important, but nothing beats actual listening. For solid state and hybrid amps, the measurements would be important to me at some level. For tube amps, it's all about the listening.

 

[Stereolab42]

Lol at people complaining about measurements on a tube amp. Talk about completely missing the point. If you want to listen to measurements, go buy the 100$ O2 amp and be happy... somewhere else. Oh, and happy new year.

 

[leftside]

A tube amp will measure horribly for distortion, but as this guy writes, it is this natural distortion that give tubes amps their natural flavor:
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm
 
But, there are very valid reasons why the measurements of the WA5 are so concerning. Unless I've read this incorrectly, these measurements have nothing to do with distortion or tubes?
 
"The output impedance from the headphone jack was 38 ohms at 1kHz at High Impedance, 16 ohms at Low Impedance—both a little on the high side. The output impedance from the speaker terminals was also high, at 3.2 ohms across the audioband, which gave rise to variations of ±1.9dB in the frequency response"
 
"the amplifier's noise floor, measured at the speaker terminals, was contaminated with low-level power-supply–related hum components (fig.5). The unweighted, wideband signal/noise ratio, ref. 2.83V into 8 ohms and taken with the inputs shorted to ground but the volume control set to its maximum, was therefore disappointing, at 72dB in the left channel and 73.6dB in the right
 
This one looks really bad:
"Claimed to deliver 10Wpc into 8 ohms (10dBW) at 3% distortion, ... actually 3% THD+noise delivered just 3W (4.8dBW). Even at 10% THD+N, the power is only 8.5Wpc (9.3dBW). Note also the rapid rise in THD as the power increases above a couple of hundred milliwatts—this amplifier's output stage has what could be kindly referred to as a "bent" transfer function"
 
If I was a WA5 owner expecting to drive speakers as well as headphones then I'd be a little pissed off. As a WA5LE owner I'd be less concerned, but would still be questioning Woo about why the advertised specs don't meet the tested specs. 
"Its low power output and high distortion will not be too much of an issue with headphones but would seem to rule the WA5 out of contention for driving loudspeakers"

 

[davehg]

And yet the reviewer loved the sound of the WA5 driving three separate loudspeakers, including the LS3/5A clone, which can be more challenging than the super sensitive and higher impedance load of the Zu or Devore speakers, which are pretty stable at 8 ohm and above.
 
I would love to hear from Woo whether they agree with SPhile's testing methodology. They previously reviewed another 300b amp and the designer took issue with their approach -when they used the grounding for the test load recommended by the designer, the results were close to published specs.
 
  

 

[HiFiGuy528]

  Lol at people complaining about measurements on a tube amp. Talk about completely missing the point. If you want to listen to measurements, go buy the 100$ O2 amp and be happy... somewhere else. Oh, and happy new year.

 
+ 1 
 
It's easy to make an amp that makes sound and measures well, not so easy to make an amp that reproduces music.

 

[Porteroso]

 
You assume too much aren't you and you know what they say about that or ad hominem attacks? Go ahead read through my posts you're not gonna find either of your 'suspicions" However I do loathe fanboys [ fanboyus wankerus] But just to be clear I'm much more annoyed by Stereophile here than Woo, as I'm simply disappointed with these figures. Atkinson does say that the HP out put has similar problems when it is concerned with distortion figures, he just didn't post them nor did the true power figures which is a disservice to readers and prospective buyers alike. Also there is no dedicated WA5 thread hence why I posted here, if it's not welcome that's OK since the info however it is not complete is more important than fanboy reactions like yours.

This thread isn't really for throwing names around. I take issue with you writing off the WA5's headphone output without having heard it for yourself, because a reviewer did not test it. I'm glad to have been updated on your opinions of fanboys, really. 
 
The link is very welcome, your interpretation of it is just not valid. But thanks for posting.

 

[CAAAAARLO]

I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp? 

 

[davehg]

  I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp? 

​

 
I'd talk you into a WA22 or a WA5, but not a 6SE or 2. While I liked my 6SE, it didn't have the punch that the WA22 and WA5 have. Yes, they are more expensive but buying used cushions the blow.
 
If I did the Violectric, I'd save my money for a V281. You've got some nice headphones, time to feed them properly.