[Umwelt]

I would suggest it's a bad idea to buy phones in the hope that they'll start to sound good once you get them home ...

This. I can only conclude that manufacturers that actively advertise burn in are using it as a way to reduce buyer's remorse returns. A bit disappointing that Yamaha is one of those. Hopefully it's just some regional marketing to blame. I wonder if they also have this kind of burn in statement on the Japanese site.

 

[jjss]

I'm afraid I don't agree with what I see as the thrust of this. It seems quite reasonable to me to regard recorded music as preferable. For one thing, many venues are pretty awful acoustically, and a good recording through a good system might well sound better. I'm reminded of Glenn Gould, who abandoned the stage for the studio, on the basis it permitted him to achieve a better result.

one must compare like with like, I'm referring to well executed live in a good acoustic hall vs well executed recording reproduced by a well set up headfi or 2-channel system, there is no point to compare a crapy live to a well made recording

 

[Tano]

This. I can only conclude that manufacturers that actively advertise burn in are using it as a way to reduce buyer's remorse returns. A bit disappointing that Yamaha is one of those. Hopefully it's just some regional marketing to blame. I wonder if they also have this kind of burn in statement on the Japanese site.

Totally agree. I remember when Audioquest recommended 150 hours of burn in... That was a good way to avoid some people sending back the headphones within the returning window, cause the tuning was awful...

In my opinion, burn-in is basically 2 things: people trying to justify themseves that they spent thousands on a headphone that it doesn't sound as good as they would like since day 1. And our brain getting used to a new sound signature.
And that is fine cause there's no perfect headphone and your brain needs to adapt when it's used to a different tuning.

 

[jamesjames]

one must compare like with like, I'm referring to well executed live in a good acoustic hall vs well executed recording reproduced by a well set up headfi or 2-channel system, there is no point to compare a crapy live to a well made recording

I take your point - but I don't think that's quite the end of it. I attend many recitals and concerts - I enjoy them - and I think that's important (together with playing) in allowing me to form an opinion about what's plausible in terms of a good performance. But - and this may seem heretical - I'm inclined to think my experience of recordings these days is usually more enjoyable than live performance. I suspect that's not all down to the playback quality in some technical sense - I guess it might often have something to do with the quality of the performance - recordings will often have an edge I think in that regard - and I suppose that's what Gould might have been getting at (although I should add I don't like Gould's recordings ...). So I think it's not simple but would maintain it's reasonable in the real world to regard recordings as generally preferable - and technical aspects of playback are part of that. That said, I certainly wouldn't suggest it's unreasonable to hold the opposing view.

 

[jamesjames]

Totally agree. I remember when Audioquest recommended 150 hours of burn in... That was a good way to avoid some people sending back the headphones within the returning window, cause the tuning was awful...

In my opinion, burn-in is basically 2 things: people trying to justify themseves that they spent thousands on a headphone that it doesn't sound as good as they would like since day 1. And our brain getting used to a new sound signature.
And that is fine cause there's no perfect headphone and your brain needs to adapt when it's used to a different tuning.

I agree with your point about familiarity - often underestimated as a factor I think in all aspects of audio. One other point which I meant to mention earlier is that, with phones, it's clear that placement on one's head may affect sound - and it's very hard to be precise about this. I would think the undeniable margin of uncertainty in this respect makes theories about burn in even less interesting than they might otherwise be.

 

[nephilim32]

So far, that is one of my favorites, if not my favorite, pairing in-house for the YH5Kse!

Well thank you for killing my heart with excitement.
Coming from you that sounds so promising and I definitely gotta try and make it a goal to get myself a pair of these. Also my friend. Are you finding the leather pads the go to pads for now? I imagine the leather pads delivering the low end a bit more.
Suede and alcantara kinda tighten things up usually in the treble.

 

[nephilim32]

I will be using the ampsandsound Bigger Ben Rev 2 with mine.

I don’t think you’ll have a problem there.

 

[Tano]

I agree with your point about familiarity - often underestimated as a factor I think in all aspects of audio. One other point which I meant to mention earlier is that, with phones, it's clear that placement on one's head may affect sound - and it's very hard to be precise about this. I would think the undeniable margin of uncertainty in this respect makes theories about burn in even less interesting than they might otherwise be.

Totally. The placement is crucial and it's quite tricky cause it varies a lot between headphones.

 

[nephilim32]

Ok friends! This will all be part of a follow up video on our TSAV YT channel however I wanted to share some more of my findings after receiving my personal pair purchased with my own money.

So I am not going to try to convince anyone who doesn't believe in burn in that it is real however of all the headphones I have personally purchased these headphones did require some burn in for the drivers to settle down. I am not talking about brain burn in either as my initial thoughts and impressions were on our store demo pair which had been burned in for over 100 hours prior to receiving them. With so many conflicting impressions on these headphones I had a feeling that burn in was a real thing with them as well as giving them proper current.

I can say my headphones are approaching around 100 hours now and the audible issues I heard with the bass, mids, and treble have all settled into what I heard with the store demo pair I gave my impressions on which was the pair that made me want to buy these headphones in the first place. They are not Harman Curve tuned so if you are looking for a headphone that follows the harman curve these will not be it.

However I feel they have one of the most unique and special presentations that is so addictive to listen too once they get proper burn in time. Yamaha themselves recommend a minimum of 40 hours of burn in before any judgement be made on the sound quality. I think it's safer to say 80-100 hours.

From Yamaha:

"WHY DO A BURN-IN?​

While not a requirement, burning in your headphones or earbuds will help provide an optimal listening experience. Here’s why. Each individual headphone/earbud within a pair consists of an outer shell, magnet, diaphragm and coil. These internal components make up something called a driver, which is what produces the sound that is sent into your ear canal.

These drivers (sometimes known as transducers) are the same as what you find in speakers, only smaller. Their function is to take electrical energy and transform it into kinetic energy via the cone (or dome) of the speaker they are attached to. There are two connection points: the “Surround,” which attaches the frame of the driver to the cone, and the “Spider,” which is the flexible part underneath the cone that keeps the coil centered in the magnet structure. Once those two connection points are burned-in, they loosen and allow the driver to move in and out more freely. The audio quality will likely be noticeably better once the burn-in process is complete, though the improvement is generally gradual."

Link to the article. So give them some time and you will be rewarded. We should see some legit measurements soon for those of you that love measurements. More to come. Have a great week!

Absolutely true and this has been talked about for years. Electronic/transducer/driver Burn-in is 100% real in my experience. I even experienced “burn in” with my D-8000. Not all companies do a proper “burn in” before they leave the factory/warehouse. Audeze I know burn their headphones in with a specific playlist and time.
In any case. You bring up a terrific point and I’m glad burn in is a thing because it is part of the adventure. Like tubes, you got put some hrs on them.

 

[up late]

the appropriate forum for debating the existence of burn in is sound science - just sayin'

 

[jamesjames]

the appropriate forum for debating the existence of burn in is sound science - just sayin'

I think there's sometimes a place for discussion of this issue outside sound science - but, for what it's worth, I would agree it's gone far enough here.

 

[up late]

I think there's sometimes a place for discussion of this issue outside sound science - but, for what it's worth, I would agree it's gone far enough here.

not according to the forum moderators, who consistently deem it off-topic outside of the sound science forum

 

[jamesjames]

not according to the forum moderators

I see - and I get that.

 

[Beagle]

not according to the forum moderators, who consistently deem it off-topic outside of the sound science forum

But what if it’s not real?

Totally agree. I remember when Audioquest recommended 150 hours of burn in......

cause the tuning was awful...IMO

Fixed it.

 

[up late]

But what if it’s not real?

the discussion/debate of burn in outside of the sound science forum being deemed off-topic by the forum moderators is real