[Patswalker]

Hey man I have another question about the musical presentation with headphones, do you find the combo to be mid forward? like with the mids closer to you as a listener? like when listening to a tenor sax or a voice maybe? Also on the bass side, I imagine it does make rumble theses 20hz? Thanks!

I am going to preface all this by saying this is only my expeirnce. I'm not a professional anything in this world. I'm just one guy with one expeirnce so there is a high likelyhood other people will hear different tnings that me.

I honestly find it really well balanced. To my ears its neither nigh mid or bass forward. I don't have any actually neutral headphones to listen on unfortunately. But when I listen on my very flat neutral speakers there it is not mid forward or bass forward or high forward. It just plays beautifully. Others might have a different experience but to me it sort of highlights the characteristics of whatever headphone I put on it. I do think it has a thick full detailed sound and some might see that as mid forward but to me its just as detailed and high as it is great in the mids and lows. When I have components that are as full tilt class A hige amounts of power like the Audio GD gear I find that it has an amazing ability to just get out of the way and show all parts of the sonic landscape each headphone has in ways that other lower powered colder sterile gear does.

I have no idea if it rumbles down to 20hz. According to the specs on the Audio GD site it reaches down to 20hz but I've got no way of actually knowing. I can say that I have a set of headphones, the JM Audio XTC2 with the biowool drivers which are known for having spectacular deep bass and mids along with very good highs. On the R28NOS they sound AMAZING. On the Schiit Yggi OG + Audio GD HE9LE they are mind bendingly incredible. Both set ups dig deep into the inherent characteristics of that headphone. Out of all my gear they are best on the both of those setups. So I'm not sure if its the Amp or the Dac or both on the R28NOS that is workinf the magic. When I connect brighter headphones or IEMs to the R28NOS it just makes them sound great. It powerfully presents all of the characteristcs of the headphones I connect. That's what I mean by neutral. Nothing is extra sharp, nothing is extra low, if the headphones can dig deep into the bass they will dig deep deep deep if they are designed to go way up into the highs they will do that. To my listen.

So how I buy headphones is I buy a pair to do one thing perfectly, I am not interested in having one pair of headphones to neutrally do everything. With speakers I do go for total neutral wide sound so I can hear the inherent differences between my tube based record chain and digital chain and not need to switch out spekers. Headphones are different. I have a few chains that work spectacularly well with specific headphones. The R20NOS is interesting to me because it seems to just get out of the way and highling what the headphones naturally do. This can be a good thing and it can also not be a good thing, that dpeneds on what you persoanlly are looking for. I also do not look for balance with my headphones. I listen to Jazz on one set of headphones, rap on another, folk on another, etc. For example, I have a pair of Grado headphones. They obviously have a very specific Grado sound. Some hate them and I LOVE them. I like them on my specific chain that leans warmer brighter and detailed than I like them on the R28NOS. I still love them on the R28NOS but they just sort of sound like a great version of themselves. To some this is exactly what is desired! But some people for example like to listen to V shaped sounding headphones on mid forward gear so they balance each other out. I am not one of those peopole. I like my hyper detailed IEMs on my hyper detailed Chord Mojo 2 and Hugo TT2 because they lean even deeper into the characteristic of each other than a neutral set up like the R28NOS does. Again, they all soind good on the R28NOS but I often times like to see what more I can get I like my mid and bass forward headphones on on the Shitt Yggi OG + Audio GD HE9LE because that dac and headphone amp to me is particularly focused on mids and bass. The R28NOS to me just plays the headphones beautifully without adding any flavor. The R28NOS is where I go when I don't want any sound highlighted and just want to hear the headphones. When I do want focus on the highs mids or bass, when I want extra warmth or sparkle, if I go to the R28NOS I get sort of dissappointed.

 

[AmadisDeGaula]

I am going to preface all this by saying this is only my expeirnce. I'm not a professional anything in this world. I'm just one guy with one expeirnce so there is a high likelyhood other people will hear different tnings that me.

I honestly find it really well balanced. To my ears its neither nigh mid or bass forward. I don't have any actually neutral headphones to listen on unfortunately. But when I listen on my very flat neutral speakers there it is not mid forward or bass forward or high forward. It just plays beautifully. Others might have a different experience but to me it sort of highlights the characteristics of whatever headphone I put on it. I do think it has a thick full detailed sound and some might see that as mid forward but to me its just as detailed and high as it is great in the mids and lows. When I have components that are as full tilt class A hige amounts of power like the Audio GD gear I find that it has an amazing ability to just get out of the way and show all parts of the sonic landscape each headphone has in ways that other lower powered colder sterile gear does.

I have no idea if it rumbles down to 20hz. According to the specs on the Audio GD site it reaches down to 20hz but I've got no way of actually knowing. I can say that I have a set of headphones, the JM Audio XTC2 with the biowool drivers which are known for having spectacular deep bass and mids along with very good highs. On the R28NOS they sound AMAZING. On the Schiit Yggi OG + Audio GD HE9LE they are mind bendingly incredible. Both set ups dig deep into the inherent characteristics of that headphone. Out of all my gear they are best on the both of those setups. So I'm not sure if its the Amp or the Dac or both on the R28NOS that is workinf the magic. When I connect brighter headphones or IEMs to the R28NOS it just makes them sound great. It powerfully presents all of the characteristcs of the headphones I connect. That's what I mean by neutral. Nothing is extra sharp, nothing is extra low, if the headphones can dig deep into the bass they will dig deep deep deep if they are designed to go way up into the highs they will do that. To my listen.

So how I buy headphones is I buy a pair to do one thing perfectly, I am not interested in having one pair of headphones to neutrally do everything. With speakers I do go for total neutral wide sound so I can hear the inherent differences between my tube based record chain and digital chain and not need to switch out spekers. Headphones are different. I have a few chains that work spectacularly well with specific headphones. The R20NOS is interesting to me because it seems to just get out of the way and highling what the headphones naturally do. This can be a good thing and it can also not be a good thing, that dpeneds on what you persoanlly are looking for. I also do not look for balance with my headphones. I listen to Jazz on one set of headphones, rap on another, folk on another, etc. For example, I have a pair of Grado headphones. They obviously have a very specific Grado sound. Some hate them and I LOVE them. I like them on my specific chain that leans warmer brighter and detailed than I like them on the R28NOS. I still love them on the R28NOS but they just sort of sound like a great version of themselves. To some this is exactly what is desired! But some people for example like to listen to V shaped sounding headphones on mid forward gear so they balance each other out. I am not one of those peopole. I like my hyper detailed IEMs on my hyper detailed Chord Mojo 2 and Hugo TT2 because they lean even deeper into the characteristic of each other than a neutral set up like the R28NOS does. Again, they all soind good on the R28NOS but I often times like to see what more I can get I like my mid and bass forward headphones on on the Shitt Yggi OG + Audio GD HE9LE because that dac and headphone amp to me is particularly focused on mids and bass. The R28NOS to me just plays the headphones beautifully without adding any flavor. The R28NOS is where I go when I don't want any sound highlighted and just want to hear the headphones. When I do want focus on the highs mids or bass, when I want extra warmth or sparkle, if I go to the R28NOS I get sort of dissappointed.

One way to test gear on tones is that website, that is very well done: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

 

[Patswalker]

One way to test gear on tones is that website, that is very well done: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

The audio GD site says it does too so I’m going to refer to that. Just make sure you’re headphones do and you’re good to go.

 

[ToddRaymond]

@Patswalker Do you mind commenting on what your R-27RE may have replaced in your living room? What do you have downstream from it?

That very unit makes the most sense for me as my next purchase, but I'm also considering holding out until I can upgrade to absolute top level components. The R-28 has been working just fine in the living room, but I look forward to moving up the ladder and such. I always get this feeling though that the R-27RE may only just be one solid tick up, and not mind-blowingly better.

(Previously, I had a Yggy A1 and Master 9, by the way, if that helps with any sort of triangulation.)

Thanks!

 

[Patswalker]

@Patswalker Do you mind commenting on what your R-27RE may have replaced in your living room? What do you have downstream from it?

That very unit makes the most sense for me as my next purchase, but I'm also considering holding out until I can upgrade to absolute top level components. The R-28 has been working just fine in the living room, but I look forward to moving up the ladder and such. I always get this feeling though that the R-27RE may only just be one solid tick up, and not mind-blowingly better.

(Previously, I had a Yggy A1 and Master 9, by the way, if that helps with any sort of triangulation.)

Thanks!

It’s an upgrade from the R28NOS. I chose the R27RE because I already have very very very clean filtered power. I was told that the regenerative power in the RE helps feed the dac in ways that make it much more of a jump up from the R27MK3 than the R27HE is from the R27RE with power as clean as mine.

I went Yggi OG with the HE9 LE to the R28NOS. I found the R28NOS wonderful and far more neutral. I often forgot I was listening to it, I never forgot I was listening to the Yggi OG. I wanted to R28NOS back on my desk where it started so I was saving for the R27RE, I found a great deal on a used one when I was planning on getting a new one and went for it. I do feel it’s a great step up. Everything I loved about the R28NOS just much more of it. The oversampling options are great too. I go up and down that depending on what I’m watching.

 

[AmadisDeGaula]

It’s an upgrade from the R28NOS. I chose the R27RE because I already have very very very clean filtered power. I was told that the regenerative power in the RE helps feed the dac in ways that make it much more of a jump up from the R27MK3 than the R27HE is from the R27RE with power as clean as mine.

I went Yggi OG with the HE9 LE to the R28NOS. I found the R28NOS wonderful and far more neutral. I often forgot I was listening to it, I never forgot I was listening to the Yggi OG. I wanted to R28NOS back on my desk where it started so I was saving for the R27RE, I found a great deal on a used one when I was planning on getting a new one and went for it. I do feel it’s a great step up. Everything I loved about the R28NOS just much more of it. The oversampling options are great too. I go up and down that depending on what I’m watching.

HEY hi it's me again! I read you were talking about "clean power"? I don't know what it means haha... I know nothing about this "hobby", if you could unlighten me about the subjet, is that about the power supply? do you think the R28 has an enough good as itself power supply using it only as an one unit? Thanks!

 

[Patswalker]

HEY hi it's me again! I read you were talking about "clean power"? I don't know what it means haha... I know nothing about this "hobby", if you could unlighten me about the subjet, is that about the power supply? do you think the R28 has an enough good as itself power supply using it only as an one unit? Thanks!

Sorry! No worries. So I have power conditioners that clean the power from my wall outlet in my listening spaces. Think an ac power strip that turns 1 wall outlet into more but a fancy version that filters out the “noise” that can be in the power lines. The essential idea is that big cities that have a ton of different people all connected to the same power grid makes a noisier power supply going to our audio gear. Is it necessary, no. A wonderful sounding component sounds wonderful period. Don’t think you need it to get into any silly hifi club, it’s not that at all.

What it does to my ears is cleans up the signal. This seems to make it so there is less noise in the songs. Most of the noise is un-noticeable until it’s gone. Think someone with good but not perfect vision putting on glasses that give them 2020 vision. They could see reality fine no problem but all of it sudden it’s clear. Sunsets are still beautiful, they can still drive and read, then all of a sudden that can clearly see the world. Kinda like that. Those of us, like myself, who believe in power conditioners usually experience that. In music it sounds like more separation between the parts of the music, more of a clear soundstage, easier to hear things positioned, stuff like that.

I would say that if you’re interested in giving it a shot go in lightly. There are some crazy expensive power conditioners out there. If I were to start over I would go for Emotiva power conditioners or Pine Tree Audio. Emotiva is a good midfi company that makes extremely high price to performance gear, including power conditioning power strips. Pine Tree Audio can custom make you things as well as you can order from the site. Pine tree is super responsive via email. They’re both priced close to the same. For Emotiva’s power conditioner and Pine Tree’s extremely good entry level power conditioner.

To me clean power is the foundation. All of my listening spaces have it. The products sound great without the power conditioners but better with them.

I would recommend also doing a Google search and reading about this at some point. You’ll find lots of opinions just like mine.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask anything anytime, I’m happy to help.

 

[AmadisDeGaula]

Sorry! No worries. So I have power conditioners that clean the power from my wall outlet in my listening spaces. Think an ac power strip that turns 1 wall outlet into more but a fancy version that filters out the “noise” that can be in the power lines. The essential idea is that big cities that have a ton of different people all connected to the same power grid makes a noisier power supply going to our audio gear. Is it necessary, no. A wonderful sounding component sounds wonderful period. Don’t think you need it to get into any silly hifi club, it’s not that at all.

What it does to my ears is cleans up the signal. This seems to make it so there is less noise in the songs. Most of the noise is un-noticeable until it’s gone. Think someone with good but not perfect vision putting on glasses that give them 2020 vision. They could see reality fine no problem but all of it sudden it’s clear. Sunsets are still beautiful, they can still drive and read, then all of a sudden that can clearly see the world. Kinda like that. Those of us, like myself, who believe in power conditioners usually experience that. In music it sounds like more separation between the parts of the music, more of a clear soundstage, easier to hear things positioned, stuff like that.

I would say that if you’re interested in giving it a shot go in lightly. There are some crazy expensive power conditioners out there. If I were to start over I would go for Emotiva power conditioners or Pine Tree Audio. Emotiva is a good midfi company that makes extremely high price to performance gear, including power conditioning power strips. Pine Tree Audio can custom make you things as well as you can order from the site. Pine tree is super responsive via email. They’re both priced close to the same. For Emotiva’s power conditioner and Pine Tree’s extremely good entry level power conditioner.

To me clean power is the foundation. All of my listening spaces have it. The products sound great without the power conditioners but better with them.

I would recommend also doing a Google search and reading about this at some point. You’ll find lots of opinions just like mine.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask anything anytime, I’m happy to help.Ok got it. Makes sense, w

 

[AmadisDeGaula]

Ok got it, makes sense, I bet it must help when listening to low volumes? btw does the r28 do good at low volumes? like not loosing dynamics and good timbre ? I won't buy the units you are talking about for the power cause I live in EU, better buy the ones available to me, otherwise taxes and shipping will be crazy extras... thanks anyway!

 

[Patswalker]

Ok got it, makes sense, I bet it must help when listening to low volumes? btw does the r28 do good at low volumes? like not loosing dynamics and good timbre ? I won't buy the units you are talking about for the power cause I live in EU, better buy the ones available to me, otherwise taxes and shipping will be crazy extras... thanks anyway!

In my experience playing well at low volume is much much much more the headphone rather than the devices.

With the R27RE there is much more customizing you can do with the sound. There’s oversampling options as well as being able to customize the output by incremental steps. I could see how the over sampling could possibly have an effect on playing at lower volumes but don’t forget the majority of the listening experience comes from the design of the headphones or speakers. I know the R28NOS does not have all the customizing possibilities. I’ve never had the R28 so I can’t tell you if that does.

Also, I’m not sure if I was clear about this last post, the R27RE is absolutely a step up from the R28NOS and to me the R28NOS is a step up from the R28. Close to night and day for me. At least on speakers. I haven’t used the R27RE much on headphones yet.

 

[ToddRaymond]

Thank you for sharing your impressions! Super helpful.

I have no doubt that DAC aspect (essentially an R-8) and the headphone amp / preamp aspect (Master 19) would be great. I just hope I would 'lose' much by not having a more (specialized?) preamp.

At one point I had the Ayre K-3x, and that sounded beautiful.

I suppose the great thing about getting an R27RE is that it is only slightly more costly than a great standalone DAC from Audio-gd. I could always add a fancier preamp in between it and my power amps at some point, and then later still down the road, get the latest and greatest R-7 iteration.

I do find the 2019 R-28 (basically, old NFB-1 amp/preamp) to be a bit flat out of my speakers. Not the most expansive sound. Through headphones it's a similar step down than what the Master 9 brought.

What are you using for a power amp?

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Can't understand the change of AGD from R28 to R28NOS.

At least at my R28 (2020), there're a lot more options to play with.
First the modes itself, I'm at OS8 usually, but switch to NOS when in mood.
My device also has the RCA inputs, which imo is a benefit, at least for me pairing it with the Mojo2 for a very different yet enjoyable presentation for listening.

Based in EU with, to date, a rather clean power supply, it sounds phenomenal with my active Elacs.
Not to forget, that it drives my headphones very well and with great authority.

What's the purpose of the NOS version, which is just a "castrated" version to force the R27, imo of course.

Don't get me wrong, I'd happily upgrade to the R27, but in my eyes it isn't reasonable and doesn't make sense.
From this pov, I guess that the og R28 was "downgraded" to R28NOS to gain more attention on the R27.

I'll be happy and appreciate, if someone proves me wrong.

p.s.
I sometimes use it as a pre to my tube amp for listening to my ZMF VO and FiiO FT3, even that the FT3 sounds better directly out of the R28. ^^

 

[Patswalker]

Can't understand the change of AGD from R28 to R28NOS.

At least at my R28 (2020), there're a lot more options to play with.
First the modes itself, I'm at OS8 usually, but switch to NOS when in mood.
My device also has the RCA inputs, which imo is a benefit, at least for me pairing it with the Mojo2 for a very different yet enjoyable presentation for listening.

Based in EU with, to date, a rather clean power supply, it sounds phenomenal with my active Elacs.
Not to forget, that it drives my headphones very well and with great authority.

What's the purpose of the NOS version, which is just a "castrated" version to force the R27, imo of course.

Don't get me wrong, I'd happily upgrade to the R27, but in my eyes it isn't reasonable and doesn't make sense.
From this pov, I guess that the og R28 was "downgraded" to R28NOS to gain more attention on the R27.

I'll be happy and appreciate, if someone proves me wrong.

p.s.
I sometimes use it as a pre to my tube amp for listening to my ZMF VO and FiiO FT3, even that the FT3 sounds better directly out of the R28. ^^

Unless those of us reading this are engineers I don't know that we'd have an answer. I assume, as a non-engineer, their were so happy with the R1NOS that they wanted to see what would happen if they took some of its tech into the R28NOS and were so happy that they decided to replace the R28. I've not yet heard it but from what my friends and posts on head-fi say, the R1NOS is incredible. A well deserved date to an already wonderful dac. So if that flavor could pull over to the R28NOS I would totally do that if I worked for them. It did come out close to when the R1NOS came out so thats why I though that could be the case. But I have heard neither the R28 or R1NOS so I can't say to my ears if the upgrade was that effective or not. What I did read though is that they were noticing from emails from customers and in the forums that the majority of people were using the NOS mode so that is why they decided to do that in the new one. Also on the listing in their site it explains more reasoning as well as a sections that look like things to look out before buying the NOS one implying that to some this is not an actual upgrade from the R28. I personally think that's good of them. Not hyping it up like it's some necessary update that all of a sudden oversahdows the previousl version. More like, hey all, this is new, this is what it's like, the old one is still amazing so keep it if you love it, if not this new flavor could be just what you want.

This would be a wonderful thing to ask Audio GD so the actual engineer could respond with why. If you do that please share!

 

[sajunky]

From this pov, I guess that the og R28 was "downgraded" to R28NOS to gain more attention on the R27.

R1/R-28 NOS is downgraded, as price for FPGA chips increased price few times. There is a shortage chips since war on Ukraine started, as there are used in missiles and military are big customers sucking up the market, especially in China.

Kingwa had a choice, to downgrade essential components to keep the prices, he didn't do it! These DACs are fully balanced from the ladder inclusive. No other DAC in this price range is fully balanced. There is still ACSS, the same quality power supply and stepped digital attenuator. FPGA specific features are removed, but most of people can upsample on the PC.

There is important improvement, as all inputs are galvanically isolated, including USB. It makes NOS models sound good in any gear, a previous model needed special attention, it could sound poor without extra hardware.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Unless those of us reading this are engineers I don't know that we'd have an answer. I assume, as a non-engineer, their were so happy with the R1NOS that they wanted to see what would happen if they took some of its tech into the R28NOS and were so happy that they decided to replace the R28. I've not yet heard it but from what my friends and posts on head-fi say, the R1NOS is incredible. A well deserved date to an already wonderful dac. So if that flavor could pull over to the R28NOS I would totally do that if I worked for them. It did come out close to when the R1NOS came out so thats why I though that could be the case. But I have heard neither the R28 or R1NOS so I can't say to my ears if the upgrade was that effective or not. What I did read though is that they were noticing from emails from customers and in the forums that the majority of people were using the NOS mode so that is why they decided to do that in the new one. Also on the listing in their site it explains more reasoning as well as a sections that look like things to look out before buying the NOS one implying that to some this is not an actual upgrade from the R28. I personally think that's good of them. Not hyping it up like it's some necessary update that all of a sudden oversahdows the previousl version. More like, hey all, this is new, this is what it's like, the old one is still amazing so keep it if you love it, if not this new flavor could be just what you want.

This would be a wonderful thing to ask Audio GD so the actual engineer could respond with why. If you do that please share!

Possible.
Thank you for your time and opinion/ explanation.

R1/R-28 NOS is downgraded, as price for FPGA chips increased price few times. There is a shortage chips since war on Ukraine started, as there are used in missiles and military are big customers sucking up the market, especially in China.

Kingwa had a choice, to downgrade essential components to keep the prices, he didn't do it! These DACs are fully balanced from the ladder inclusive. No other DAC in this price range is fully balanced. There is still ACSS, the same quality power supply and stepped digital attenuator. FPGA specific features are removed, but most of people can upsample on the PC.

There is important improvement, as all inputs are galvanically isolated, including USB. It makes NOS models sound good in any gear, a previous model needed special attention, it could sound poor without extra hardware.

Thank you too.
Wasn't an galvanic isolated upgrade available for the og?
I'm curious as this would make more sense for me, except upgrading to R27 for this specific reason. ( and others, obviously)
Not that there's an issue on my unit soundwise.
It all comes down to if it's reasonable and, ehm, doable, of course.

Nonetheless, I appreciate all input.
Thanks again.