Hi guys! I just wanted to share my story recently of a scam I experienced on Head-Fi here. Unfortunately, PayPal has closed the claim in scammer/seller favour, but I am in the process of appealing. Always use PayPal Goods & Services/Invoices, and use a bank card instead of PayPal Balance, unless you are extremely confident in the purchase!
This all started with my WTB post over on Classifieds for a FatFreq Maestro SE.
Shortly after, I received a private message from user "@el_monkey" looking to sell his.
We then agreed on a price, in which case I also requested some pictures from the seller.
At this point, I have also checked through the seller's classifieds feedback. I was initially sceptical given the last time the seller had classifieds activity was in 2020, but seeing the rest of his activity being inconsistent, on-and-off between years in the past, I decided to give benefit of the doubt.
For context, seller had feedback in 2020, but prior to that was 2016, in which he was active between 2014-2016 timeframe. Activity had another year or two gap, and seller had feedback from 2010-2012.
In addition, the user was actively commenting on some threads and generating activity. Later I realized these were all threads with recent activity showing on the FRONT PAGE OF FORUM THREADS. It is an attempt at creating the impression of being an actual user. I first thought he was just turning from another multi-year break.
I won't post screenshots of all this but you can probably view the user profile yourselves.
Seller then sent a photo of name and date stamped photo of the item. I have also attached the picture for anyone interested themselves. At a later date, after scrolling through Google images enough, I discovered that this picture was STOLEN FROM AN AVEXCHANGE REDDIT POST. The scammer/seller even copy and pasted a phrase directly over from the Reddit post.
Original Reddit post : https://www.reddit.com/r/AVexchange/comments/156ym62/wtscanonh_fatfreq_maestro_se_w_paypal/
Image : https://imgur.com/a/fs12Koh
From here, I was happy to make the purchase. The payment was made via PayPal Balance. This is important and I will talk about this more at the end.
Today, as of making this post, I have also run the image through an AI generator. THIS IS THE IMPORTANT THING TO BE AWARE OF!!!
The overall image will return that of a HUMAN, because the MAJORITY IS AN ACTUAL PHOTO.
However, running JUST THE NAME AND TIMESTAMP WILL RETURN AI. This was likely done via Photoshop or AI.
Fast forward, the seller went unresponsive shortly after PayPal invoice was paid. Then after a few hours, the original account owner recovered the account and advised to not proceed with the transaction. Unfortunately by then, it was too late.
Immediately, a PayPal dispute was filed. However, this is where things get tricky.
You can launch a PayPal dispute within 180 days of a transaction. However, the first 7 days of the dispute is only a DISPUTE where you can communicate with the seller, and there is no PayPal intervention. You can file a dispute under many different reasons. In this case it was filed under "ITEM NOT RECEIVED" as obviously, nothing was going to come.
There are other online cases where people change the dispute to "Item not as described" but there is also loopholes to do with this, such as PayPal then requesting you to send the item back to the seller and they will refund upon receiving it. From what I have gathered, you will be provided with a fake, undeliverable address to return the parcel to, and therefore still not receive your refund.
After a week of a dispute, you can escalate it to a CLAIM where there is no longer communication between you and the seller, while PayPal takes over the investigation and reaches a conclusion.
However, at this point, the scammer/seller has provided a FAKE FedEx tracking number, showing a parcel delivered to the same SUBURB/POSTCODE.
This is where it is important to note that the scammer/seller is trying to play games via the PayPal guidelines. The PayPal guidelines operate under AS LONG AS SELLER PROVIDES A "PROOF OF SHIPMENT & PROOF OF DELIVERY", in this case, the tracking number belonging to a completely random parcel you can find via online searches of some sort, or drop-ship a fake item, PAYPAL WILL AUTOMATICALLY SIDE WITH THE SELLER AND CLOSE YOUR CASE.
The address I have provided is that of a business address, while the FedEx parcel states "Residential" and also shows a picture of a door completely different to the actual address I have provided (not providing images due to privacy). In addition, I have called FedEx and have EMAIL CONFIRMATION THAT THE PARCEL FOR THE PROVIDED TRACKING NUMBER WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO ME, OR MATCHES THE ADDRESS PROVIDED.
PAYPAL DOES NOT CARE BECAUSE ALL PROCESSES ARE DONE BY ROBOTS AND AUTOMATED. THEY DO NOT CHECK YOUR EVIDENCE SUPPORTING YOUR CLAIMS.
As such, my claim was immediately closed in favour of the scammer/seller, allowing them to walk with the money.
From here on now, there is 10 days left to submit an appeal with new information. However, even the APPEAL PROCESS SEEMS TO BE INVESTIGATED BY MOSTLY BOTS AND AUTOMATED PROCESSES.
My next biggest pain is that PayPal support (which I assume is AI) is requesting an OFFICIAL PDF LETTER/EMAIL from FedEx with their Letterhead stating that the item WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO ME. However, FedEx on the other hand is REFUSING TO PROVIDE SUCH AN OFFICIAL LETTER, AND INSTEAD PROVIDING FURTHER EMAIL STATING FOR PAYPAL TO CONTACT THEM FOR ANY MORE INFORMATION REQUIRED. NEITHER SIDE IS WILLING TO CO-OPERATE BEYOND SUCH IN THIS CASE.
I am trying to get a human from PayPal to investigate the case and look at all the information provided. Phone calling PayPal, speaking to them on Twitter or via their chat has just resulted in them providing an email to send an appeal to, and nothing otherwise is done practically.
At this point, I can only pray that there is a HUMAN INVESTIGATOR LOOKING AT ALL EVIDENCE PROVIDED, AS WELL AS CONTACTS FEDEX. I am still in the appeal process again and praying every second that I can have a human PayPal case investigator, rather than more automated AI processes.
As this was paid via PayPal balance, I cannot initiate a chargeback via the card issuing bank. If you have paid via a card linked to your bank account, I would recommend going straight to them and initiating a chargeback. PayPal support services are HORRENDOUS. Banks can initiate a chargeback directly, whereas PayPal balance has to go through PayPal's resolution methods.
IT ONLY TAKES A HUMAN 5 MINUTES TO CHECK THE INFORMATION, PUT 1 AND 1 TOGETHER, AND REALIZE THIS WAS A SCAM. UNFORTUNATELY HOWEVER, 99% OF THEIR PROCESSES ARE AUTOMATED BY BOTS, EVEN YOUR APPEALS FOR CLAIMS.
MAKE SURE TO KEEP YOURSELF SAFE FROM THESE SCAMS, COLLECT ALL INFORMATION IF THIS WAS TO HAPPEN TO YOU, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, PRAY THAT A HUMAN INVESTIGATES THE CASE. THERE IS INFINITE LOOPHOLES IN THE PAYPAL BUYER PROTECTION AS MUCH AS THERE IS FOR SELLERS. STAY SAFE FROM SCAMS!!!
TL;DR Hacked Head-Fi account generates activity, provides photoshopped/AI edited timestamped photo, then plays the PayPal guidelines regarding G&S purchases. PayPal processes are 99% automated and do not investigate your case or evidence via human interaction.
STAY SAFE AND PRAY THAT YOU CAN GET HUMAN SUPPORT. I WILL UPDATE THE OUTCOME AGAIN ONCE I HEAR ANYTHING BACK. THIS ISN'T LOOKING GOOD CHIEF...
EDIT : PAYPAL CUSTOMER SUPPORT HUMANS ARE STILL REFUSING TO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. THEY WILL NOT ACCEPT AN EMAIL FROM FEDEX MANAGERS EVEN REQUESTING PAYPAL TO DIRECTLY CALL THEM. FEDEX WILL NOT PROVIDE AND OFFICIAL LETTER AS THIS IS NEVER REQUIRED.
I WILL BE FILING A POLICE, CYBERCRIME AND OMBUDSMAN REPORT HOPING THAT SOMEONE CAN TAKE ACTION.
EDIT 2 : THE FOURTH PERSON TO RESPOND VIA TWITTER HAS FINALLY MANAGED TO RE-OPEN THE CASE AFTER HE PHONE CALLED FEDEX HIMSELF TO CONFIRM THE DELIVERY. THIS IS PROBABLY THE 2OTH PAYPAL SUPPORT AGENT I HAVE SPOKEN TO VIA NUMEROUS MEANS.
IF YOU ENCOUNTER THIS SITUATION, JUST TRY TO CALL, MESSAGE, EMAIL, SPAM THEM ON ALL POSSIBLE FRONTS UNTIL YOU CAN FIND THE ONE GUY THAT CAN HELP.
EDIT 3 : THE CASE HAS FINALLY BE REVERSED INTO MY FAVOUR AND WILL BE RECEIVING A REFUND. SHOUTOUT TO KENYON FROM TWITTER SUPPORT (ONE OF MANY).
This all started with my WTB post over on Classifieds for a FatFreq Maestro SE.
Shortly after, I received a private message from user "@el_monkey" looking to sell his.
We then agreed on a price, in which case I also requested some pictures from the seller.
At this point, I have also checked through the seller's classifieds feedback. I was initially sceptical given the last time the seller had classifieds activity was in 2020, but seeing the rest of his activity being inconsistent, on-and-off between years in the past, I decided to give benefit of the doubt.
For context, seller had feedback in 2020, but prior to that was 2016, in which he was active between 2014-2016 timeframe. Activity had another year or two gap, and seller had feedback from 2010-2012.
In addition, the user was actively commenting on some threads and generating activity. Later I realized these were all threads with recent activity showing on the FRONT PAGE OF FORUM THREADS. It is an attempt at creating the impression of being an actual user. I first thought he was just turning from another multi-year break.
I won't post screenshots of all this but you can probably view the user profile yourselves.
Seller then sent a photo of name and date stamped photo of the item. I have also attached the picture for anyone interested themselves. At a later date, after scrolling through Google images enough, I discovered that this picture was STOLEN FROM AN AVEXCHANGE REDDIT POST. The scammer/seller even copy and pasted a phrase directly over from the Reddit post.
Original Reddit post : https://www.reddit.com/r/AVexchange/comments/156ym62/wtscanonh_fatfreq_maestro_se_w_paypal/
Image : https://imgur.com/a/fs12Koh
From here, I was happy to make the purchase. The payment was made via PayPal Balance. This is important and I will talk about this more at the end.
Today, as of making this post, I have also run the image through an AI generator. THIS IS THE IMPORTANT THING TO BE AWARE OF!!!
The overall image will return that of a HUMAN, because the MAJORITY IS AN ACTUAL PHOTO.
However, running JUST THE NAME AND TIMESTAMP WILL RETURN AI. This was likely done via Photoshop or AI.
Fast forward, the seller went unresponsive shortly after PayPal invoice was paid. Then after a few hours, the original account owner recovered the account and advised to not proceed with the transaction. Unfortunately by then, it was too late.
Immediately, a PayPal dispute was filed. However, this is where things get tricky.
You can launch a PayPal dispute within 180 days of a transaction. However, the first 7 days of the dispute is only a DISPUTE where you can communicate with the seller, and there is no PayPal intervention. You can file a dispute under many different reasons. In this case it was filed under "ITEM NOT RECEIVED" as obviously, nothing was going to come.
There are other online cases where people change the dispute to "Item not as described" but there is also loopholes to do with this, such as PayPal then requesting you to send the item back to the seller and they will refund upon receiving it. From what I have gathered, you will be provided with a fake, undeliverable address to return the parcel to, and therefore still not receive your refund.
After a week of a dispute, you can escalate it to a CLAIM where there is no longer communication between you and the seller, while PayPal takes over the investigation and reaches a conclusion.
However, at this point, the scammer/seller has provided a FAKE FedEx tracking number, showing a parcel delivered to the same SUBURB/POSTCODE.
This is where it is important to note that the scammer/seller is trying to play games via the PayPal guidelines. The PayPal guidelines operate under AS LONG AS SELLER PROVIDES A "PROOF OF SHIPMENT & PROOF OF DELIVERY", in this case, the tracking number belonging to a completely random parcel you can find via online searches of some sort, or drop-ship a fake item, PAYPAL WILL AUTOMATICALLY SIDE WITH THE SELLER AND CLOSE YOUR CASE.
The address I have provided is that of a business address, while the FedEx parcel states "Residential" and also shows a picture of a door completely different to the actual address I have provided (not providing images due to privacy). In addition, I have called FedEx and have EMAIL CONFIRMATION THAT THE PARCEL FOR THE PROVIDED TRACKING NUMBER WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO ME, OR MATCHES THE ADDRESS PROVIDED.
PAYPAL DOES NOT CARE BECAUSE ALL PROCESSES ARE DONE BY ROBOTS AND AUTOMATED. THEY DO NOT CHECK YOUR EVIDENCE SUPPORTING YOUR CLAIMS.
As such, my claim was immediately closed in favour of the scammer/seller, allowing them to walk with the money.
From here on now, there is 10 days left to submit an appeal with new information. However, even the APPEAL PROCESS SEEMS TO BE INVESTIGATED BY MOSTLY BOTS AND AUTOMATED PROCESSES.
My next biggest pain is that PayPal support (which I assume is AI) is requesting an OFFICIAL PDF LETTER/EMAIL from FedEx with their Letterhead stating that the item WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO ME. However, FedEx on the other hand is REFUSING TO PROVIDE SUCH AN OFFICIAL LETTER, AND INSTEAD PROVIDING FURTHER EMAIL STATING FOR PAYPAL TO CONTACT THEM FOR ANY MORE INFORMATION REQUIRED. NEITHER SIDE IS WILLING TO CO-OPERATE BEYOND SUCH IN THIS CASE.
I am trying to get a human from PayPal to investigate the case and look at all the information provided. Phone calling PayPal, speaking to them on Twitter or via their chat has just resulted in them providing an email to send an appeal to, and nothing otherwise is done practically.
At this point, I can only pray that there is a HUMAN INVESTIGATOR LOOKING AT ALL EVIDENCE PROVIDED, AS WELL AS CONTACTS FEDEX. I am still in the appeal process again and praying every second that I can have a human PayPal case investigator, rather than more automated AI processes.
As this was paid via PayPal balance, I cannot initiate a chargeback via the card issuing bank. If you have paid via a card linked to your bank account, I would recommend going straight to them and initiating a chargeback. PayPal support services are HORRENDOUS. Banks can initiate a chargeback directly, whereas PayPal balance has to go through PayPal's resolution methods.
IT ONLY TAKES A HUMAN 5 MINUTES TO CHECK THE INFORMATION, PUT 1 AND 1 TOGETHER, AND REALIZE THIS WAS A SCAM. UNFORTUNATELY HOWEVER, 99% OF THEIR PROCESSES ARE AUTOMATED BY BOTS, EVEN YOUR APPEALS FOR CLAIMS.
MAKE SURE TO KEEP YOURSELF SAFE FROM THESE SCAMS, COLLECT ALL INFORMATION IF THIS WAS TO HAPPEN TO YOU, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, PRAY THAT A HUMAN INVESTIGATES THE CASE. THERE IS INFINITE LOOPHOLES IN THE PAYPAL BUYER PROTECTION AS MUCH AS THERE IS FOR SELLERS. STAY SAFE FROM SCAMS!!!
TL;DR Hacked Head-Fi account generates activity, provides photoshopped/AI edited timestamped photo, then plays the PayPal guidelines regarding G&S purchases. PayPal processes are 99% automated and do not investigate your case or evidence via human interaction.
STAY SAFE AND PRAY THAT YOU CAN GET HUMAN SUPPORT. I WILL UPDATE THE OUTCOME AGAIN ONCE I HEAR ANYTHING BACK. THIS ISN'T LOOKING GOOD CHIEF...
EDIT : PAYPAL CUSTOMER SUPPORT HUMANS ARE STILL REFUSING TO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. THEY WILL NOT ACCEPT AN EMAIL FROM FEDEX MANAGERS EVEN REQUESTING PAYPAL TO DIRECTLY CALL THEM. FEDEX WILL NOT PROVIDE AND OFFICIAL LETTER AS THIS IS NEVER REQUIRED.
I WILL BE FILING A POLICE, CYBERCRIME AND OMBUDSMAN REPORT HOPING THAT SOMEONE CAN TAKE ACTION.
EDIT 2 : THE FOURTH PERSON TO RESPOND VIA TWITTER HAS FINALLY MANAGED TO RE-OPEN THE CASE AFTER HE PHONE CALLED FEDEX HIMSELF TO CONFIRM THE DELIVERY. THIS IS PROBABLY THE 2OTH PAYPAL SUPPORT AGENT I HAVE SPOKEN TO VIA NUMEROUS MEANS.
IF YOU ENCOUNTER THIS SITUATION, JUST TRY TO CALL, MESSAGE, EMAIL, SPAM THEM ON ALL POSSIBLE FRONTS UNTIL YOU CAN FIND THE ONE GUY THAT CAN HELP.
EDIT 3 : THE CASE HAS FINALLY BE REVERSED INTO MY FAVOUR AND WILL BE RECEIVING A REFUND. SHOUTOUT TO KENYON FROM TWITTER SUPPORT (ONE OF MANY).
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