[pbui44]

Unfortunately, this was paid via PayPal balance rather than a card, therefore a chargeback cannot be initiated.

It sounds like these scammers are very familiar with contract law and financial law and given the timing of this scam with current global events, you might have to also talk to law enforcement on an international level. Plan ahead and good luck.

 

[Nick727]

Sorry this happened to you, and I hope it all gets sorted out in the end. It's a shame there's people that can have that level of integrity with no remorse, but karma is weird and always seems to come around in the end.

I think the internet needs a PayPal replacement. They've become increasingly impossible to deal with, and the service is clearly suffering from being a monopoly especially over the past few years.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Sorry this happened to you, and I hope it all gets sorted out in the end. It's a shame there's people that can have that level of integrity with no remorse, but karma is weird and always seems to come around in the end.

I think the internet needs a PayPal replacement. They've become increasingly impossible to deal with, and the service is clearly suffering from being a monopoly especially over the past few years.

Charging exorbitant "protection" fee without providing proper protection.

 

[Yifang]

Update!!!

I believe I have finally reached someone from PayPal that can help via Twitter. This is the 4th person from their Twitter support, and probably the 20th person I've contacted from PayPal to finally get things moving.

Funny thing is, the 5th Twitter support person right after then said "We won't be accepting any official letter from FedEx either", yet the 4th person actually ended up phone calling FedEx to confirm the situation himself and has re-opened the case for me.

 

[lycos]

I am sorry this has happened to you, this is a disgrace. From reading this, I have arrived at some points (for high value listings from unknown sellers):

1. Every buyer should run a reverse image search on any headfi listing.
2. A brief verification video (less than 30 seconds, unlisted, uploaded to youtube) to prove the item is in hand. No voice needed, just a video of the item with proveable time stamp.
3. Sellers should have at least two endorsements from 2 reputable headfi'ers.

As a community, we should agree on some basic proveable criteria to prove legitimacy of a listing.

1. I think @Yifang did this. The photo sent by the scammer cannot be found via google reverse image search. It's hidden in Reddit and hasn't been picked by Google.
2. I agree! With advancement of AI and Photoshop regenerated brushing, unfortunately just having a photo with username/timestamp would not be sufficient.
3. I agree as well, with note that, those referees should contact seller/buyer via other ways outside headfi/email such as whatsapp or text or phone call.

 

[bigbeans]

1. I think @Yifang did this. The photo sent by the scammer cannot be found via google reverse image search. It's hidden in Reddit and hasn't been picked by Google.
2. I agree! With advancement of AI and Photoshop regenerated brushing, unfortunately just having a photo with username/timestamp would not be sufficient.
3. I agree as well, with note that, those referees should contact seller/buyer via other ways outside headfi/email such as whatsapp or text or phone call.

Yes, these were just some measures I could think of off the top of my head. Ideally at least one of the parameters would reveal a genuine listing or a scam listing.

If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[lycos]

these scammers are very familiar with contract law and financial law

+1. They really know how paypal dispute process and timing works. Like this scammer held that bogus tracking no until the last day of deadline. This then reduces the response time.

They also know almost all loopholes.

I think the internet needs a PayPal replacement. They've become increasingly impossible to deal with, and the service is clearly suffering from being a monopoly especially over the past few years.

New business idea? You can be the next Elon Musk

 

[Rackhour]

Scams like these are why I now buy used only locally. It doesn't absolutely erase all possibilities, but at least I can react faster (e.g., walk away without giving money).

 

[Yifang]

Update again!

The guy from Twitter support has managed to get the case reviewed again and now closed in my favour! Refund incoming.

Nonetheless, the amount of drama and contact that had to be made for this case was unbelievable and I would still encourage people to stay away from PayPal if possible. So much stress and work needed to chase it.

 

[Tiax]

I am sorry this has happened to you, this is a disgrace. From reading this, I have arrived at some points (for high value listings from unknown sellers):

1. Every buyer should run a reverse image search on any headfi listing.
2. A brief verification video (less than 30 seconds, unlisted, uploaded to youtube) to prove the item is in hand. No voice needed, just a video of the item with proveable time stamp.
3. Sellers should have at least two endorsements from 2 reputable headfi'ers.

As a community, we should agree on some basic proveable criteria to prove legitimacy of a listing.

If it becomes a new rule on head-fi that one needs to jump through so many hoops just to sell something, i would stop selling on head-fi and use other platforms

 

[YAGIZ]

Over the years we have seen in the forum that Paypal's quality of service has declined, but it is frightening to see how bad it is in reality.
Hope you get your money back man.

Edit: Happy to hear that you got it solved. Too many wasted hours for something as simple as 5 min human check..

 

[Yifang]

Over the years we have seen in the forum that Paypal's quality of service has declined, but it is frightening to see how bad it is in reality.
Hope you get your money back man.

Edit: Happy to hear that you got it solved. Too many wasted hours for something as simple as 5 min human check..

I genuinely had to speak to over 10 different people, I say 20 but at this point I think half of them are robots. This was various forms of communication as well and repeated cases. It's actually mindblowing how difficult this was when a human needs 5 minutes to do a check, yet the vast majority seemed to straight up refuse checking and dismisses all evidence.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I genuinely had to speak to over 10 different people, I say 20 but at this point I think half of them are robots. This was various forms of communication as well and repeated cases. It's actually mindblowing how difficult this was when a human needs 5 minutes to do a check, yet the vast majority seemed to straight up refuse checking and dismisses all evidence.

This is what happening when they cut personnel and replacing human reps with AI bots. A new reality and not a good one.

 

[initialt]

Thanks for the PSA; will no longer be using paypal balance for things like this.

 

[KipFox]

I am sorry this has happened to you, this is a disgrace. From reading this, I have arrived at some points (for high value listings from unknown sellers):

1. Every buyer should run a reverse image search on any headfi listing.
2. A brief verification video (less than 30 seconds, unlisted, uploaded to youtube) to prove the item is in hand. No voice needed, just a video of the item with proveable time stamp.
3. Sellers should have at least two endorsements from 2 reputable headfi'ers.

As a community, we should agree on some basic proveable criteria to prove legitimacy of a listing.

So I had this happen by two Head-Fi'ers in a row this week while looking for a DAC, both DM'd me with sales pitches. First guy created his account same day, had the galls to take a picture holding his name on paper in front of a monitor of the item (belonging to someone else), he was banned/removed instantly. Then two days later a Head-Fi'er whose been here for years with some valid feedback did the same thing but used someone's ad photos from 7 years ago. I reported him and some of his other ads in classified where he did the same thing. The guy is still roaming the forums as I type this, though his ads have been taken down. Is this not a banning offense? I'd hate to see this guy scam someone else.