HIFIMAN New Desktop DAC/Amps: EF500 and EF499!
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:39 PM Post #76 of 130
lol don't get me wrong, I actually really like iFi. But I also think they're the odd one out. :laughing:
Fiio K7 is 6.35/4.4, no XLR. SMSL C200, M500 Mk3. Also plenty of stuff that has XLR but 4.4 as well. And more and more headphones come with 4.4 not XLR, like the Sennheiser HD800S changed to a 4.4 stock cable. Moondrop Venus stock 4.4. Sony's TOTL MDR-Z1R is 4.4 as well. I do think it's more the new standard and I prefer it, I have everything on 4.4, more compact than XLR.
 
Feb 25, 2024 at 11:32 PM Post #77 of 130
Like you can notice R2R is a bit more 3D and more smaller nuances, but also slightly fuzzier.
Hifiman add phase distortion to their R2R, don't they, that would potentially give a 3D "effect". You could add this to a delta sigma DAC as well, but they tend to prioritise accuracy, just the sound without added colouration.
 
Feb 27, 2024 at 2:59 PM Post #78 of 130
i got the ef499 and connect it to the new midgard using HiFiMan Ayra V4's. I am not a pro but what i observed was that Ayra are shrill up top and the r2r is chill and so is the midgard. I use NOS low when connected directly to the ef400 balanced and when i switch to the midgard via all the way to the headphones with hi out from the midgard.

Playing Eagles/Hotel California via usb 192k to the ef499 if sounds good off of both. the low/mids are more detailed thru the midgard but the highs are not as shrill. on both amps i am only 25 percent volume. When i switch the midgard to low even if i move up the volume it doesn't sound as good as if in hi. I wonder if the midgard only engages its halo stuff in hi gain mode.

over the years i have had many headphones and dacs. this to me is a pretty good setup and i wish i had the ef499 and midgard when i had the Audeze LCD-X's-those were shrill too.

i chose the ef499 out of the color scheme matching the Ayra v4 and getting some copper finished cables makes it look cool. I am not a full believer in cable making huge sound changes on headphones but pretty cables makes a setup look better, plus not need to hide pretty cables :)
 
Feb 27, 2024 at 4:11 PM Post #80 of 130
i got the ef499 and connect it to the new midgard using HiFiMan Ayra V4's. I am not a pro but what i observed was that Ayra are shrill up top and the r2r is chill and so is the midgard. I use NOS low when connected directly to the ef400 balanced and when i switch to the midgard via all the way to the headphones with hi out from the midgard.

Playing Eagles/Hotel California via usb 192k to the ef499 if sounds good off of both. the low/mids are more detailed thru the midgard but the highs are not as shrill. on both amps i am only 25 percent volume. When i switch the midgard to low even if i move up the volume it doesn't sound as good as if in hi. I wonder if the midgard only engages its halo stuff in hi gain mode.

over the years i have had many headphones and dacs. this to me is a pretty good setup and i wish i had the ef499 and midgard when i had the Audeze LCD-X's-those were shrill too.

i chose the ef499 out of the color scheme matching the Ayra v4 and getting some copper finished cables makes it look cool. I am not a full believer in cable making huge sound changes on headphones but pretty cables makes a setup look better, plus not need to hide pretty cables :)
hey man can you tell me if the outputs on the back are fixed? (meaning the front volume knob doesn't affect the rca and xlr volume)
 
Feb 27, 2024 at 5:01 PM Post #82 of 130
@tylerindianapolis Can you just briefly compare standalone ef499 vs ef400?
unfortunately, no. i currently only have the ef499. The ef400 uses the Himalaya R2R so it might be more equal to the ef500. The ef499 is using the Philips R2R. It might be plausable to consider the ef500 is the ef400 with the extra inputs. What i find even more interesting is Hifiman never released a user manual. however it is pretty simple device. for the ethernet i use a wifi to ethernet dongle and it appears on the network as a endpoint for music.
 
Feb 27, 2024 at 6:33 PM Post #83 of 130
unfortunately, no. i currently only have the ef499. The ef400 uses the Himalaya R2R so it might be more equal to the ef500. The ef499 is using the Philips R2R. It might be plausable to consider the ef500 is the ef400 with the extra inputs. What i find even more interesting is Hifiman never released a user manual. however it is pretty simple device. for the ethernet i use a wifi to ethernet dongle and it appears on the network as a endpoint for music.
Cool idea! Could you share the link to the wifi ethernet adapter you're using?
 
Feb 28, 2024 at 7:33 PM Post #84 of 130
search for this and it will show up. any will work but i always do things complicated. i am using a smaller chest and put some enameled legs on it and drilled a hole out of the bottom. All the wires go out the bottom and up to the top and plug into ef499 and such stuff. i am not really one who believes cable makes a huge difference in sound but i am using some cables that look pretty. This wifi bridge is small and so i can mount it to the bottom of the box and it will be able to breath and not be seen. This one also uses 5GHz. I even put in a fancy cat8 ethernet cable for looks. :) still waiting on a couple things before it is completed. oh yeah it has a built in patch cable plus a slot to add a patch cable so i used the spare to go to the Wiim that is inside the box.

Vonets WiFi Extender 2023 Release AC1200 2.4GHz/5GHz Dual Band WiFi Bridge/WiFi to Ethernet/Broader Coverage Than Ever with 1 RJ45 (10/100Mbps) USB/DC Powered for DVR/IP Camera/WiFi Repeater with Fan​

 
Mar 9, 2024 at 1:54 PM Post #85 of 130
Hello everyone,

i received my EF400 and my EF500 3 Weeks ago.
Did a proper burn in and did an extended A/B test, yesterday. I wrote a lot of notes and today I like to share that with you.
I only tested balanced XLR headphone connection.
And only NOS in low gain.
I used only my Hifiman R10P

Build quality: I would say it's the same. On ef500 my volume control has a slightly bit more play.
Volume control: Both are equally loud. Using USB-C bit perfect it's totally fine with sensitive headphones like R10D or R10P.
With upnp it's louder (quite too loud) but it's still bit perfect.
Starting from 8 o'clock channel balance is good. Before it's heavy on the right side.
Streaming is not really convenient: EF500 has no wifi (2024, no WIFI? Really??) And there is no specific app, I could only manage to use it with uapp and upnp.
Yes you don't need a usb-c cable but beside that, it has no advantage.
Did I mention that there was no manual in the box..
If you know what I can do with the steamer inside, please let me know.

How does it sound?
Well they don't sound the same.
Without A/B I could not tell any differences. I had a lot of fun.
In direct A/B testing there are quite audible differences.

1.) using it's amplification:
EF400: More subbass, greater soundstage or let's say the stereo image is wider and a bit more rolled of trebles.
EF500: Less subbass, stereo image is smaller and more coherent, trebles more energetic, maybe in some situation a bit too much.

The stereo image:
When I listen to rock, it's really great to have a wide stereo image. It sounds more energetic, bigger.
But in some songs of pop genre it falls a bit apart or sounds not that much as I would expect.
I guess that's what people try to fix with crossfeed.
E.g. sometimes it feels like a hihat is a bit moving and is not a 100% fix in positioning.
Hard to describe.
EF500 does not have that "issue" with the pop song. And the hihat is fixed and you can litterly see it standing and the stick dancing on it.
But for rock I miss that better "channel" separation (?). It really shines with the guitar doubling on left and right channel.
Sorry I am new in this hifi thingy, I can only describe what my hears are telling me.

With classical music, violin solo, both sound the same.
For rock I would clearly prefer the ef400.
For modern pop music, I prefer the ef500 for the more coherent, "smaller" presentation.
My guess is that the mastering is not prefered for that amount of channel separation in a headphone.
Or at least does not like to consider that when mixing.
Anyway, the differences that I mention above are small.

2.) Using Ef400 and EF500 as a DAC into my Cayin HA-3A via XLR
For both devices the Cayin headphone amp is an upgrade.
Bass is more dynamic, it's a bit smoother (only really noticeable in songs that I know very well and has a superior female voice).
Overall sound is more vivid. It sounds more energetic, more precise.
And I can't tell any difference between EF400 and EF500.

Caution: Never ever use the RCA connection. It is simply bad compared to the XLR when used as dac.
It's such a difference that I would recommend to not buy it if the amp has no balanced XLR input.


Conclusion:
I like both Hifiman DACs. And I'll keep both.
With my combo I listen to more music as I ever did. When I start listening it's hard to stop at all, mostly I listen for 3hours straight.
I'll use the EF500 with my cayin, simply to have better amplification of ef400 available in another room.
But I have no comparison to a high end dac lik denafrips venus2 or anything similar.

My takeaway of the last 12 months is:
Every penny should be invested in the headphone itself.
Even an Cayin RU7 make that sound beyond belief.
And from that all improvements are very minor.
And in my case the gear impacts the genre.
With my RU7 (DSD64) I can listen to Norah Jones and violin solos for hours. Magical.
With EF400 and EF500 I listen a lot more to rock, pop (dense music). So much fun!
Hifiman has a very specific sound from my point of view. They are very bright and energetic in the trebles (not the R10D).
I bought the R10P over the Susvara for that reason. For me the R10P is the most underrated headphone on earth :wink:
And I changed the dac (ess9038q2m) to RU7 and Himalaya for smoother trebles and better timbre.
The cayin ha-3a can't change a combo that does not fit together. Like my ess9038q2m and hifiman he1000V2, that I sold.
My R10P does not sound as enjoyable with my (super expensive) ess9038q2m dac/amp with my Cayin Ha-3A.
The EF400 /EF500 sounds better even without using the cayin HA-3A.
But adding the cayin to a working combo really gives it a boost.

And I think my old AKG 701 is more neutral than my Audeze LCD2 cb, R10P and R10D, but who cares.

I hope that helps somebody.
 
Mar 9, 2024 at 2:33 PM Post #86 of 130
Heyyyy thank you for your detailed review!

And I can't tell any difference between EF400 and EF500.

Sounds like as far as using as DAC only, both Himalaya chip sound too close to tell any difference at all.

So the sound difference you're hearing is mainly from the amp portion of EF400 and EF500 probably right?

Caution: Never ever use the RCA connection. It is simply bad compared to the XLR when used as dac.
It's such a difference that I would recommend to not buy it if the amp has no balanced XLR input.

LOL you just saved me some money, I was hoping to buy it and use it as DAC only to feed into my Lyr 3.

Though Lyr 3 only has single ended RCA. Based on what you said it's not worth it to use single ended right?

Most balanced DACs tend to have better XLR than RCA since it's designed with balanced in mind and single ended often is an afterthought. I guess this is the more extreme case of this it seems.

Again much appreciated on your review! :relaxed:
 
Mar 9, 2024 at 5:52 PM Post #87 of 130
Sounds like as far as using as DAC only, both Himalaya chip sound too close to tell any difference at all.
Yes, I mean I tried, going back and forth more than 10 times but you have to switch cable for that, so it's a couple of seconds break as my Cayin has 1x xlr input, not 2 so I can't connect both dacs with XLR at the same time. And the RCA is not a comparison at all. To be more precise: RCA sounds super boring, no slam, no energy no matter how loud you turn the amp. I can't live with that sound and would have returned it immediately.
 
Mar 12, 2024 at 1:40 PM Post #88 of 130
i got the ef499 and connect it to the new midgard using HiFiMan Ayra V4's. I am not a pro but what i observed was that Ayra are shrill up top and the r2r is chill and so is the midgard. I use NOS low when connected directly to the ef400 balanced and when i switch to the midgard via all the way to the headphones with hi out from the midgard.

Playing Eagles/Hotel California via usb 192k to the ef499 if sounds good off of both. the low/mids are more detailed thru the midgard but the highs are not as shrill. on both amps i am only 25 percent volume. When i switch the midgard to low even if i move up the volume it doesn't sound as good as if in hi. I wonder if the midgard only engages its halo stuff in hi gain mode.

over the years i have had many headphones and dacs. this to me is a pretty good setup and i wish i had the ef499 and midgard when i had the Audeze LCD-X's-those were shrill too.

i chose the ef499 out of the color scheme matching the Ayra v4 and getting some copper finished cables makes it look cool. I am not a full believer in cable making huge sound changes on headphones but pretty cables makes a setup look better, plus not need to hide pretty cables :)
and also, headphones.com opened the page to preorder the ef499, the thing is it says "the EF499 lies a state-of-the-art digital-to-analog conversion technology, capable of handling high-resolution audio files up to 32-bit/384kHz." in the description. which doesn't make sense since the ef400, ef500 and ef600 only support up to 192khz.

can you check it out?
 
Mar 12, 2024 at 8:28 PM Post #89 of 130
and also, headphones.com opened the page to preorder the ef499, the thing is it says "the EF499 lies a state-of-the-art digital-to-analog conversion technology, capable of handling high-resolution audio files up to 32-bit/384kHz." in the description. which doesn't make sense since the ef400, ef500 and ef600 only support up to 192khz.

can you check it out?
IMG_9905.jpeg


Audiophile Analog Collection vol.3 from HDTracks works. I played it via the shield pro usb to the ef499 (I was getting drops and I believe it was packet drops)-unplugged the usb and sound would periodically drop. Was using the qnap music app when using the PLEX app it was not dropping but wasn’t sure if PLEX was downsampling.

Switched to iOS usb plugged into the ef499 and opened up file explorer and played directly. I have .wav 352.8kHz 24bit files for this folder.

With iOS it is solid. I would have to spend much time for greater details. One thing I was listening to track 7 Fannie Mae on the ef499 with OS (over sampling on) and at the end of the song it was magnifying the flaws (artifacts) of the song. I was also going to the Midgard.

With NOS connected directly to the ef99 in NOS low to me sounded the best.

For now I only use the 660S2 and Ayra v4 balanced. Might plug in the final audio iems once I get a 4.4/xlr converter.

I really do not get into power cords making a difference but I went a little more with cables because I have this set up in the open. The collector box I have had since I was in grade school but I put a couple holes in it and put some Jotul Brown Enamel Legs on it.

Inside the box is where the power strip and accessories to connect is hidden.

To me it is pretty cool but I will change it out in a year most likely to some other little project I do.
 

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