[Hutnicks]

  So something just happened now that makes me question all this spending on HQ iems, so I was going through some old stuff in my drawer and came across these from my old sony ericsson phone.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Ericsson-Original-Headset-Walkman/dp/B0027V4AR4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1406126133&sr=8-4&keywords=sony+ericsson+headset&dpPl=1
 
I figured, let me test them out with all this HQ music and compare to my XBA30, back then I didnt know about music as I did now, so I plugged them in expecting to be disgusted; to my amazement....they sound great! I thought to myself ok its probably jsut the mind adjusting, I went to my xba30 expecting to be blown away, sure it has cleaner bass, bigger sound stage and little details but overall its not what IMO you would expect for a $200 iem compared to a measly $10 pair.
 
These sound very good, everything is super clear, the mids and highs are good, the lows are not as clear per say but they are there at least, aside from a slight low end leakage they are balanced as well.
 
Now obviously the 30's are better no doubt but are they $200 worthy? Recently I bought the xb90ex and those retailed for like $60, to my amazement too aside from the obvious low end and sub bass emphasis they are clear and the mids and highs are just as good as the 30, so I wonder are these $200, $300, $400+ iem's really worth it? Something like the re400 is another example of price/value.
 
I mean being 100% honest, if I was stuck with these headphones I would not be complaining at all, the only headphones I cant stand are earbuds, those things suck lol

Well you picked a phenomenally good pair of OEM'd earphones to compare with. I actually posted them in the MH1 thread ages ago as a non ergonomic disaster alternative to the MH1.
 
Whats the saying. "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while."?  There are times when I believe that should be Sony's motto
 
Now if you happened to get the mono earbud with that set and can find another and some cable and foam booties...........................................

 

[Deviltooth]

  I imagine a high-end IEM may not sound any better than a cheap IEM when played from a cheap DAP or playing lossy files. In fact it could sound worse because the high-end IEM faithfully reproduces the distortion already present in the DAP/file. And don't forget many high-end IEMs are a difficult electrical load and require a good DAP to drive them properly.
 
But if you are happy with your current inexpensive IEM, you may want to stay off this site because this place tends to make you want to trade up.

I'm going to disagree with you, my customs and my Noble 4 all sound better out of Sandisk's cheap Clip players than any of my cheaper IEMs.  Granted the difference is less than with a better source but it's still notably superior.
 
If you're looking for an amazing value try the $17 (sometimes less) Sony MDR-EX37B.  I can't believe how good this thing sounds for the money.  Normally I've been at odds with 'The Wirecutter's recommendations, but wow do these cheaply made Sonys deliver in the sound department.  It's the only budget IEM I've ever found that presents a layered 3D sound stage.

 

[SkiesOfAzel]

   
Most of the components in iem's are not that expensive. Much of money goes into R&D especially for all the BA stuff. Once all the new multidriver R&D have already been done and BA drivers don't cost $20+ a pop, I think $50-100 iem's will sound as good as today's high end universal iem's.

 
I am not so sure about that. Prices are also dictated by demand. Look at how much the ie800 costs for example. Sure, there were some R&D costs associated with it but there is no way in hell those were reflected in its starting price which was close to that of the UERM. Senn believed they could ask for that much and still sell enough quantities to make a really good profit so they went for it. Besides, the ie800 isn't the only single dd iem that is unreasonably expensive, as long as there are people willing to pay a lot of money for something based on subjective criteria like brand recognition or even status symbolism in some cases, the prices of most well known brands will remain high.
 
Customs are another matter, their product volume is too small and they are practically hand crafted, so even if the cost of balanced armatures drops, their prices will still remain high.

 

[haloxt]

Mark-ups of 2-4x is not that uncommon for audio reproduction equipment and high quality made in Germany products. I don't think you're being fair judging Sennheiser unless you actually know how much R&D they put into the IE 800. The materials might not be worth anywhere near the price tag, but there can be significant R&D involved, and who knows, after taking into consideration the costs of prototyping and tooling for the custom single dynamic driver in the IE 800 may have a total cost higher than most expensive BA drivers. A company like Sennheiser has a lot more funds, engineers, and equipment for R&D than most audio equipment manufacturers can afford or have access to, and it doesn't take much time to quickly go through hundreds of thousands of dollars which have to be recouped in the price tag, which can result in significant price increase in low volume statement products.
 
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is super high price tag of most expensive iem's today probably stems from R&D and some expensive components like Knowles drivers and don't necessarily reflect the sound quality, and that some relatively low cost single driver iem's can and should have good sound quality for a lot of reasons.

 

[SkiesOfAzel]

  Mark-ups of 2-4x is not that uncommon for audio reproduction equipment and high quality made in Germany products. I don't think you're being fair judging Sennheiser unless you actually know how much R&D they put into the IE 800. The materials might not be worth anywhere near the price tag, but there can be significant R&D involved, and who knows, after taking into consideration the costs of prototyping and tooling for the custom single dynamic driver in the IE 800 may have a total cost higher than most expensive BA drivers. A company like Sennheiser has a lot more funds, engineers, and equipment for R&D than most audio equipment manufacturers can afford or have access to, and it doesn't take much time to quickly go through hundreds of thousands of dollars which have to be recouped in the price tag, which can result in significant price increase in low volume statement products.

 
I certainly don't know how much they poured in R&D for the ie800, but i do know this. The UERM is a seriously more complex kit and it can never reach the product volume a universal by Senn could. An ie800 priced ~300$ would still make a profit eventually, simply because a lot more individual units would be sold. Unlike small companies with small reserves, Senn can afford to cover their costs in a longer time-span but they can also attempt to market their products as luxury items and get away with it. Its not just the price tag by itself, they made it so that it uses custom tips, the cable isn't detachable etc. They simply chose to put the extra cost of purchasing custom tips or replacing the iem if the cable brakes on the consumer.
 
[EDIT]
Even if they managed to spend a fortune designing a single DD iem (that's their problem, not ours), let's just compare the pricing of a crappy oem rebrand like the cx series to that of an Ostry KC06 that is built with better materials, has a very good custom purpose transducer in it and sounds so much better i shouldn't even be mentioning it in the same sentence with the former. Ostry has higher R&D and material costs and sells a lot less KC06s than the cx units Senn does, at a similar price. Ostry still makes a profit.
 
And btw, i am not blaming Senn for their pricing, they are a company and their purpose is to find the easiest ways to maximize profits. I blame the consumer when he rewards tactics that work against him in the long run.

 

[Hisoundfi]

I have MANY budget phones that will hang with higher priced stuff. With that being said, it makes me hesitant to go out and risk blowing a fair amount of cash on something that could sound the same, or even worse.

If I'm going to jump, it's going to be a giant leap into some TOTL phone that gets rave reviews from the pros in this hobby. I don't want to buy some universal for 300-400 bucks and be like "What, my (fill in the blank with any budget IEM comes to mind) is more enjoyable to listen to than these"

 

[Ivabign]

   
[EDIT]
Even if they managed to spend a fortune designing a single DD iem (that's their problem, not ours), let's just compare the pricing of a crappy oem rebrand like the cx series to that of an Ostry KC06 that is built with better materials, has a very good custom purpose transducer in it and sounds so much better i shouldn't even be mentioning it in the same sentence with the former. Ostry has higher R&D and material costs and sells a lot less KC06s than the cx units Senn does, at a similar price. Ostry still makes a profit.
 
And btw, i am not blaming Senn for their pricing, they are a company and their purpose is to find the easiest ways to maximize profits. I blame the consumer when he rewards tactics that work against him in the long run.

There are so many costs associated with being in business that have nothing to do with cost of materials and sale price of products - I imagine Sennheiser actually designed and built the driver in the IE800, while Ostry chose one "off the shelf" and made it sound good with excellent design and proper tuning and good choices of materials. 
 
Sennheiser has a huge workforce - pays well and pays comprehensive benefits to its employees - it sinks tons of cash into anti-counterfeiting programs - they also employ a large number of personnel for repair and warranty services. If the IE800 didn't exist, they would still be a large player in the mobile audio industry. I don't know why people choose their most expensive product and try to explain why it should cost less based on a bill of goods - it fits a spot in their lineup - they have not thrown something together to fill that spot - they have committed a substantial amount of R&D to that spot - they aren't short changing the position by any means.
 
We can talk about how well built the Ostry is until we are blue in the face, but has anyone got a three year old unit that is still working properly? A four year old one? Five? Let's reserve our judgment until there is a larger pool of data on these small companies that have economies of scale that are of a different sort than the large companies like Sennheiser, JVC, Shure & Sony.

 

[Dinerenblanc]

  There are so many costs associated with being in business that have nothing to do with cost of materials and sale price of products - I imagine Sennheiser actually designed and built the driver in the IE800, while Ostry chose one "off the shelf" and made it sound good with excellent design and proper tuning and good choices of materials. 
 
Sennheiser has a huge workforce - pays well and pays comprehensive benefits to its employees - it sinks tons of cash into anti-counterfeiting programs - they also employ a large number of personnel for repair and warranty services. If the IE800 didn't exist, they would still be a large player in the mobile audio industry. I don't know why people choose their most expensive product and try to explain why it should cost less based on a bill of goods - it fits a spot in their lineup - they have not thrown something together to fill that spot - they have committed a substantial amount of R&D to that spot - they aren't short changing the position by any means.
 
We can talk about how well built the Ostry is until we are blue in the face, but has anyone got a three year old unit that is still working properly? A four year old one? Five? Let's reserve our judgment until there is a larger pool of data on these small companies that have economies of scale that are of a different sort than the large companies like Sennheiser, JVC, Shure & Sony.

Wonderful post, Ivabign. I own a few Asian IEMs, and I must say the build quality is sub-par at best. None of them have adequate strain-relief, most of them have cables that are thinner than a toothpick, and half of them have dried glue protruding from the seams. I honestly cannot see them lasting more than a year with daily use. 

 

[jruschme]

Possibly the wrong forum for this, but something I've been struggling with for a bit- the idea that because a pair of headphones is inexpensive it can't be as good. 
 
In my case, my work headphones have been, for a while, a pair of $5 headphones purchased from Target. These are the same as the $3.50 Vivtar ones (same OEM) that people have been using as headband donors for SennGrado builds. I did a couple of mods to them (mostly adding some dampening) and find I really like the sound from them. Somehow, I've been having trouble, though, with the idea that that should be enough.
 
Does this reasoning sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Dinerenblanc]

  Possibly the wrong forum for this, but something I've been struggling with for a bit- the idea that because a pair of headphones is inexpensive it can't be as good. 
 
In my case, my work headphones have been, for a while, a pair of $5 headphones purchased from Target. These are the same as the $3.50 Vivtar ones (same OEM) that people have been using as headband donors for SennGrado builds. I did a couple of mods to them (mostly adding some dampening) and find I really like the sound from them. Somehow, I've been having trouble, though, with the idea that that should be enough.
 
Does this reasoning sound familiar to anyone?

Many people are contempt with what they have until they try something better. It doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just normal.

 

[Ivabign]

  Possibly the wrong forum for this, but something I've been struggling with for a bit- the idea that because a pair of headphones is inexpensive it can't be as good. 
 
In my case, my work headphones have been, for a while, a pair of $5 headphones purchased from Target. These are the same as the $3.50 Vivtar ones (same OEM) that people have been using as headband donors for SennGrado builds. I did a couple of mods to them (mostly adding some dampening) and find I really like the sound from them. Somehow, I've been having trouble, though, with the idea that that should be enough.
 
Does this reasoning sound familiar to anyone?

"Good enough" is the operative term here. If they are good enough for you - they are. Full stop. If you want to try for more performance, explore. But the idea that everyone's ears are different and that the $5 Target IEMs are just as good as say, a Hifiman RE400 is ludicrous. You are happy with them no doubt. But in actuality you are settling for less - and there is no problem with that - the amount you are willing to spend is equal to the performance you expect from your gear. All that matters is that you are happy. Don't let one-upmanship drive purchases - Don't let envy drive purchases. There are headphones that punch above their price point at every price point. I own the Philips 3590's and they sound great - but they aren't a 1+2 by any stretch of the imagination.
 
But to say that "should" be enough? For who? A hamburger tastes great and lets me enjoy the taste of beef - but "should" I stop there and not have a steak if I can afford it and it is readily available? I think not. Unless I have to steal a cow from a neighbor and slaughter it myself... 

 

[Jer0en]

 
"Good enough" is the operative term here. If they are good enough for you - they are. Full stop. If you want to try for more performance, explore. But the idea that everyone's ears are different and that the $5 Target IEMs are just as good as say, a Hifiman RE400 is ludicrous. You are happy with them no doubt. But in actuality you are settling for less - and there is no problem with that - the amount you are willing to spend is equal to the performance you expect from your gear. All that matters is that you are happy. Don't let one-upmanship drive purchases - Don't let envy drive purchases. There are headphones that punch above their price point at every price point. I own the Philips 3590's and they sound great - but they aren't a 1+2 by any stretch of the imagination.
 
But to say that "should" be enough? For who? A hamburger tastes great and lets me enjoy the taste of beef - but "should" I stop there and not have a steak if I can afford it and it is readily available? I think not. Unless I have to steal a cow from a neighbor and slaughter it myself... 

And slaughtering your neighbour's cow is a metaphor for what exactly? 

 

[Ivabign]

  And slaughtering your neighbour's cow is a metaphor for what exactly? 

Something not to do.  

 

 

[kjk1281]

I don't like the whole, "They utilize an OEM, so their R&D must be less" argument. It's not like companies like AKG, Audio-Technica, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, and others. just take off the shelf designs and call it a day like Skullcandy used to before they hired an actual acoustic engineer. I'm confident most companies actually take these designs as starting points and tune the drivers and housings according to the sound signature and performance they're trying to achieve. I'd rather a company pick up an OEM design and tweak it to make it sound great than make the driver and housing from scratch and have it sound terrible and have crappy build to boot.

 

[goodvibes]

It's relative. There's good and bad at every price point. For instance, I think the Ostry 6a is a great but they sound rather unrefined next to my JH13s. There's a significant qualitative difference. I'm probably keeping both but one is clearly for when I don't want as much isolation or to use on less good sources.