LETSHUOER S12 - Next big planar? (Impressions & Discussion)
Mar 25, 2024 at 6:31 PM Post #1,816 of 1,906
General information for folks that might be interested in the condensation complaints relating to the S12 but the same applies to any metal shell IEM, some may have never come across this or considered it, I know I hadn't until several years ago when I tried IEM for the first time.

Some simple facts to consider when deciding between IEM options:

IEM are typically made with metal, resin or plastic shells.

Metal absorbs cold and tends to hold the cold quite well. Cold materials will form condensation when in a warm humid environment, our ears are warm and humid, that is inescapable physics.

Plastics and resins won't absorb and hold the cold as readily so won't form condensation as readily but still could if subject to a sufficiently cold environment.

Metal shells are stronger than resin or plastic, especially resin which is actually quite easy to break. I have broken two sets of resin shell IEM intentionally and some folks might be surprised how thin and weak the shells can be, you would not want to handle them roughly or get unlucky and drop them from a height onto a hard surface like a tiled floor for example.

If you want or need strong shells you buy metal and accept the limitations that come with that.

If you don't want condensation to occur because you live in a climate that this might be a factor you buy resin or plastic and accept a different set of limitations.

Luckily there are plenty of good sounding IEM at various price points so there is something to please everyone if we make a selection with an understanding of the physics behind the material used in manufacture.
 
Mar 25, 2024 at 8:51 PM Post #1,817 of 1,906
@LETSHUOER Support

Perhaps it’s worth trying to make sound tubes and meshes out of plastic, as Sennheiser did in their popular IE 600 model? 🤔 Maybe this will help avoid the formation of condensation on the sound tube grille? The advantage of this solution is that most of the body remains made of metal, and plastic sound tubes do not spoil the appearance in any way simply because, as a rule, they are equipped with tips. I am sure that Sennheiser did this for a reason, out of nothing to do or to stand out from the competition. Another surprising thing is why only the Germans thought of this? 😯 Once again I admire the Sennheiser engineers and give them a standing ovation :clap: Chinese companies definitely have a lot to learn from them 😉

SENNHEISER_IE_600_07.jpg

SENNHEISER_IE_600_05.jpg

ab1099be.jpg

sennheiser-ie-600-mmcx-connection-scaled.jpg
 
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Mar 25, 2024 at 9:14 PM Post #1,818 of 1,906
If the Letshuoer engineering team wants to understand what the problem is and what it looks like, then I advise you to send the following message to the engineering department: in order for condensation drops to form on the sound tube meshes, you need to insert the S12 Pro into your ears and wear them for at least 30 minutes (or even better, 1 hour) in a relatively cold room (possibly outside) and preferably with high humidity ❄️🥶:cloud_rain:☔ I think those who live in England understand me very well ^^
You can see what these drops of condensation look like in Apple AirPods Max:




Just search YouTube for "apple airpods max condensation issue" :sweat_drops::sweat_drops::sweat_drops:
 
Mar 25, 2024 at 9:23 PM Post #1,819 of 1,906
Metal shells are stronger than resin or plastic, especially resin which is actually quite easy to break. I have broken two sets of resin shell IEM intentionally and some folks might be surprised how thin and weak the shells can be, you would not want to handle them roughly or get unlucky and drop them from a height onto a hard surface like a tiled floor for example.

If you want or need strong shells you buy metal and accept the limitations that come with that.
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/let...sions-discussion.961404/page-97#post-17345577
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/let...ions-discussion.961404/page-118#post-18022841

The S12s are perfect as an illustrative example 😆 So yeah, metal shells are "very durable and reliable shells"! 🤭 In addition, if the metal is also polished to a mirror state, as is the case with the FiiO FD5, then micro-scratches will inevitably and very quickly appear on the shells. Even with short, extremely careful and exclusively home use of earphones 👎

The funny thing is that my plastic Beyerdynamic Soul Byrds have been dropped multiple times and I've generally been very rough with them, but they still look like new and work great! 👍 After about 9 months of intensive use of the Sennheiser IE 300, nothing happened to them either (although their bodies are also entirely made of plastic) 👌 Plastic can also be different — good and bad, cheap and expensive. This is not to mention the different implementation of the body itself, made of plastic. Therefore, everything is relative and far from being as simple and unambiguous as you describe :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
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Mar 25, 2024 at 9:52 PM Post #1,820 of 1,906
Vlad,

You know your comments regarding metal shells and plastic nozzles actually has merit. Perhaps if you dropped the attitude with your delivery some folks might care about what you are saying. You could have got your message across much better without sounding like you clearly think you know better than the Letshuoer engineers and without the comment about Chinese companies and the smart arse emojis.

Additionally, regarding your second comment to me above with split IEM shells, sure things break or there wasn't sufficient glue and the shell popped open but the exception doesn't disprove the rule. Metal as a rule is more sturdy I think that is just common sense. And again, I would give some consideration to your comments and ideas as having some merit if you would drop your tone that you know better than trained engineers and you dropped the passive aggressive quips and little smart arse smirking emojis and had a conversation like a rationale thinking adult able to consider the ideas of others.

I don't see that happening anytime soon so until then this thread is all yours ..........
 
Mar 25, 2024 at 10:00 PM Post #1,823 of 1,906
You know your comments regarding metal shells and plastic nozzles actually has merit. Perhaps if you dropped the attitude with your delivery some folks might care about what you are saying. You could have got your message across much better without sounding like you clearly think you know better than the Letshuoer engineers and without the comment about Chinese companies and the smart arse emojis.
I’m simply shocked that only the Germans from Sennheiser have thought of this so far. This idea kills two birds with one stone — you can still use metal as a material for shells and there is no condensation on the sound tube meshes.
 
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Mar 25, 2024 at 10:13 PM Post #1,824 of 1,906
You could have got your message across much better without sounding like you clearly think you know better than the Letshuoer engineers…
There is no need to consider the engineers of Letshuoer or any other company to be gods who are 100,500 times smarter than mere mortals. They are mere mortals just like us, their consumers, and therefore often make mistakes in their products. This is why they need feedback from us so much. You can see for yourself that the Letshuoer company representative does not even know what condensate is and why it forms. Do you think the engineers knew about it when they created the S12 or any other IEM in an all-metal housing? I am more than sure that the company’s engineers have never even heard of such a thing as condensate. Otherwise, they would most likely choose anything other than metal as the material for the body of their IEMs. Or at least they made plastic sound tubes and grilles, like in the Sennheiser IE 600. Then why can’t I consider myself in some sense smarter than the engineers of companies such as Letshuoer, FiiO, Moondrop and many others? You clearly have a low opinion of yourself…
 
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Mar 25, 2024 at 10:45 PM Post #1,825 of 1,906
There is no need to consider the engineers of Letshuoer or any other company to be gods who are 100,500 times smarter than mere mortals. They are mere mortals just like us, their consumers, and therefore often make mistakes in their products. This is why they need feedback from us so much. You can see for yourself that the Letshuoer company representative does not even know what condensate is and why it forms. Do you think the engineers knew about it when they created the S12 or any other IEM in an all-metal housing? I am more than sure that the company’s engineers have never even heard of such a thing as condensate. Then why can’t I consider myself in some sense smarter than the engineers of companies such as Letshuoer, FiiO, Moondrop and many others? You clearly have a low opinion of yourself…

They know what condensation is, they are not silly, they live in a place where condensation would be a problem.

No I don't have a low opinion of myself at all, I am just realistic and if you had a little humility you would understand that myself, others that have made comments along the way and the Letshuoer engineers are not silly like you seem to think we are.

Some of your comments have merit but your delivery pretty much shoots down any chance of anybody taking you seriously. However, some of your comments and complaints are nonsense (like pulling the plug off the am termination end of the cable for example) and you could actually learn something if you stopped thinking you are the only intelligent person that has been involved with this ongoing story of yours.

Thank you for at least making an effort to communicate in a civil and adult manner.

I think you would get a better reception from the Letshuoer guys if you dropped the attitude and the smart arse emojis, listened a little to others ideas and comments and spoke to them in your comments like the human beings that they are and don't look down on them as your tone of your comments conveys.
 
Mar 25, 2024 at 10:54 PM Post #1,826 of 1,906
They know what condensation is, they are not silly, they live in a place where condensation would be a problem.
Not sure about this. Their representative, as we see, does not know what condensate is. Why are you so sure that their engineers know what it is? I am more than sure that the company’s engineers have never even heard of such a thing as condensate. Otherwise, they would most likely choose anything other than metal as the material for the body of their IEMs. Or at least they made plastic sound tubes and grilles, like in the Sennheiser IE 600.
However, some of your comments and complaints are nonsense (like pulling the plug off the am termination end of the cable for example)…
I only have this problem in two copies of the S12 Pro (the 2-pin plugs constantly come out of their connectors). I have NEVER had this problem in other IEMs with 2-pin plugs. By the way, my brother has the same problem with his S12 Pro. 3 copies cannot be so crooked! I read the comments under one video on YouTube, where people also complained about this problem. Why then is it nonsense? This means that the company is doing something wrong with the 2-pin connectors or plugs during production. Well, or the company simply still hasn’t learned how to make this type of connector correctly. I repeat once again that I have had quite a few other IEMs with two-pin connectors, but none of them had such problems as the S12 Pro.
 
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Mar 25, 2024 at 11:26 PM Post #1,828 of 1,906
They don't know what condensation is or didn't want to get into a discussion with you about it, quite different.

The amp end swappable termination, you said it kept pulling off, of course it does if you pull the wrong part, that was the nonsense I was talking about.

I try and be as polite as I can muster and all you do is argue some more.

:deadhorse:
 
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Mar 26, 2024 at 12:33 AM Post #1,829 of 1,906
They don't know what condensation is or didn't want to get into a discussion with you about it, quite different.
You don't know for sure, so don't try to be clever. What can we discuss here? You either knew about the presence of condensation, but still decided to use metal bodies (which is stupid, to say the least), or you didn’t know, so you used this type of material 🤷
I try and be as polite as I can muster and all you do is argue some more.
Because I disagree with you.
 
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Mar 26, 2024 at 4:05 AM Post #1,830 of 1,906
Vlad, you disagree with everyone, several folks here have taken the time to try to explain a different perspective to your concerns so there are a number of people that don’t agree with you. If you considered what others are saying rather than defending your argument constantly you might just learn something or see a perspective you haven’t considered.

Get serious, it isn’t like condensation on cold metal in high humidity is a new discovery that manufacturers of metal items that will be shoved into the warm humid environment of peoples ear don’t know about. It is a trade off for the benefits of metal shells just like many IEM manufacturers use on some models.

Your belligerent adherence to tenuous arguments has gotten beyond old.
 
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