[TheR0v3r]

Better or just plays louder? I use Roon and all the comparisons I tried to make, e.g. with Tidal Connect, Jplay, MConnect, made me believe that software has little, if any, impact upon sound quality. In fact, Roon never claimed that it would improve sound quality. It's all about the experience, the available information and the multizoning functionality. Can't comment on Sense because I never heard an Innous, but I'm not surprised that Innous optimized the integration of its software with its own hardware.

Different, it may be better.

 

[TheR0v3r]

I used to have a K50 and used Roon, it's great for integration, but the clear winner in my system was Innuos with sense. I wouldn't go back to Roon, Innuos was smart and realized if they can get you hooked on the software it's would put a dent in the amount of Roon users.

The tweaker in me just loves to EQ so that’s why I’m holding on to Roon.

 

[carboncopy]

Better or just plays louder? I use Roon and all the comparisons I tried to make, e.g. with Tidal Connect, Jplay, MConnect, made me believe that software has little, if any, impact upon sound quality. In fact, Roon never claimed that it would improve sound quality. It's all about the experience, the available information and the multizoning functionality. Can't comment on Sense because I never heard an Innous, but I'm not surprised that Innous optimized the integration of its software with its own hardware.

I do not use digital volume, it's fix. Endpoint is Holo Red. So, it's not louder, the presentation is different. More open, alive...I don't know why. I am an end-user, I had a Nucleus and used Roon for 6 years. If anything it would be comfortable to use it further. Alas, the difference was for my ears in my system not subtle. Therefore the change.

 

[project86]

Without getting into an argument about whether software can make a difference, and if so which ones actually do sound best...

I will say that I've noticed a lot of people have similar experiences, where they claim to love Roon (or some other graphically-rich, versatile software) but find that they prefer the sound out of some other more simplistic option. Even to the point of wishing Roon/etc sounded better due to the superior appearance or usability or whatever. I know several people who use Roon for general listening but then break out their other less polished software for critical listening and evaluation.

My takeaway is that for a lot of people, more hassle tends to equate to better sound. Thus vinyl "sounding" best, then actual CDs, then file-based streaming, then Tidal/Qobuz. This is probably on a subconscious level, but for a lot of people a more direct, "pure" playback approach will win out over a big complex software experience like Roon. Just like vinyl, the whole affair becomes a ritual and that somehow makes people feel more intimately connected to the music in the end.

Again, this is just an observation, and it applies pretty universally to a variety of things in the audio world. And again, not saying there aren't cases where the software doesn't produce actual superior sound one way or the other. But the human brain is complex and weird, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of this wasn't caused by placebo/confirmation bias/whatever other weird process is happening upstairs.

In the end, use what you feel sounds most enjoyable to you, regardless of the cause.

 

[carboncopy]

Without getting into an argument about whether software can make a difference, and if so which ones actually do sound best...

I will say that I've noticed a lot of people have similar experiences, where they claim to love Roon (or some other graphically-rich, versatile software) but find that they prefer the sound out of some other more simplistic option. Even to the point of wishing Roon/etc sounded better due to the superior appearance or usability or whatever. I know several people who use Roon for general listening but then break out their other less polished software for critical listening and evaluation.

My takeaway is that for a lot of people, more hassle tends to equate to better sound. Thus vinyl "sounding" best, then actual CDs, then file-based streaming, then Tidal/Qobuz. This is probably on a subconscious level, but for a lot of people a more direct, "pure" playback approach will win out over a big complex software experience like Roon. Just like vinyl, the whole affair becomes a ritual and that somehow makes people feel more intimately connected to the music in the end.

Again, this is just an observation, and it applies pretty universally to a variety of things in the audio world. And again, not saying there aren't cases where the software doesn't produce actual superior sound one way or the other. But the human brain is complex and weird, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of this wasn't caused by placebo/confirmation bias/whatever other weird process is happening upstairs.

In the end, use what you feel sounds most enjoyable to you, regardless of the cause.

JPlay is faster and less fussy as Roon. According to this logic I should LOVE Roon.

And I had a nice vynil rig which I sold because it was too demanding to use for me. I just wan't to kick back and listen to music

 

[project86]

Yes definitely doesn't apply to every person or situation. Just something I noticed over the years.

Again, use what you like best, there's no wrong answer here!

 

[REXNFX]

Yes definitely doesn't apply to every person or situation. Just something I noticed over the years.

Again, use what you like best, there's no wrong answer here!

Yes there are wrong answers, you gave some...

 

[project86]

Yes there are wrong answers, you gave some...

It's fine if you don't like my theory. I've said it doesn't apply universally but is just something I've noticed amongst many many audiophiles over the course of many years. But it's not a universal truth or anything.

Anyway, back to Innuos - have we heard from anyone with experience trying the Pulse models compared to their generally similar level Zen counterparts? I know they don't match up perfectly in price, but like the lower models going head to head, or the midrange models, etc.

For example, Zen Mini versus Pulse Mini: the Pulse model sells for $400 less, and has less features. But is the sound better, worse, or the same?

 

[skids929]

It's fine if you don't like my theory. I've said it doesn't apply universally but is just something I've noticed amongst many many audiophiles over the course of many years. But it's not a universal truth or anything.

Anyway, back to Innuos - have we heard from anyone with experience trying the Pulse models compared to their generally similar level Zen counterparts? I know they don't match up perfectly in price, but like the lower models going head to head, or the midrange models, etc.

For example, Zen Mini versus Pulse Mini: the Pulse model sells for $400 less, and has less features. But is the sound better, worse, or the same?

Software can and will make a difference in sound, so you're pontification is nothing more than that...It's like saying software doesn't impact the performance of your laptop..Again, software controls the hardware, hence why manufacturers release updates. You can extrapolate what you want from trolling forums and ask questions that get you the answers you want to hear, but facts are facts.

 

[TheR0v3r]

It's fine if you don't like my theory. I've said it doesn't apply universally but is just something I've noticed amongst many many audiophiles over the course of many years. But it's not a universal truth or anything.

Anyway, back to Innuos - have we heard from anyone with experience trying the Pulse models compared to their generally similar level Zen counterparts? I know they don't match up perfectly in price, but like the lower models going head to head, or the midrange models, etc.

For example, Zen Mini versus Pulse Mini: the Pulse model sells for $400 less, and has less features. But is the sound better, worse, or the same?

So I’m not sure if I can answer your question because I will be going from memory but that wont stop me from trying.

I’ve auditioned the Pulsar, Pulse and Pulse Mini. In the end I went for the Pulse because of the AES and SPDIF outputs. Also the fact that the difference in price between Pulse and Pulsar amounted to a Phoenix USB which gives me the option of a topnotch USB solution if I ever decide to return to that interface. At this point that is highly unlikely.

When the Zen Mini came out I bought it and had it for about a year. At the time I used it mostly with a Chord mHugo2 and Roon. My issue with that setup was that it was too ”soft” I couldn’t get it to ”slam/punch”. The same issue across the Zen line for me. This was probably one-two years ago so maybe I would hear it differently today, Roon has improved etc.

The impression of the Pulse models is not they are soft and they are at least equal to the Zen line in all other areas. So I would consider them better than their Zen counterparts. Actually I’m very impressed by the Pulse and Pulsar even in comparison with more expensive alternatives.

 

[project86]

Software can and will make a difference in sound, so you're pontification is nothing more than that...It's like saying software doesn't impact the performance of your laptop..Again, software controls the hardware, hence why manufacturers release updates. You can extrapolate what you want from trolling forums and ask questions that get you the answers you want to hear, but facts are facts.

I'm not arguing that software doesn't impact SQ. In fact I've always been a proponent of that exact idea, even when it has sometimes been viewed as an unpopular opinion. My point was that there seems to be many among us who, whether consciously or not, equate things like a simplistic UI, or poor functionality, or other less-than-user-friendly aspects as somehow leading to superior SQ. Hence the general audiophile hive-mind stating vinyl sounds better than CD which sounds better than playing local files which sounds better than streaming lossless tracks.

My gut feeling is that on some level, when people have to work a little more to get their music going, the brain treats it as a more rewarding experience. I know, amateur psychology nonsense, but it tracks across many different people and situations.

If people haven't noticed that or feel like I'm spouting nonsense, I can totally understand that, and I'm ready to move on and focus on the real topic of the thread.

So I’m not sure if I can answer your question because I will be going from memory but that wont stop me from trying.

I’ve auditioned the Pulsar, Pulse and Pulse Mini. In the end I went for the Pulse because of the AES and SPDIF outputs. Also the fact that the difference in price between Pulse and Pulsar amounted to a Phoenix USB which gives me the option of a topnotch USB solution if I ever decide to return to that interface. At this point that is highly unlikely.

When the Zen Mini came out I bought it and had it for about a year. At the time I used it mostly with a Chord mHugo2 and Roon. My issue with that setup was that it was too ”soft” I couldn’t get it to ”slam/punch”. The same issue across the Zen line for me. This was probably one-two years ago so maybe I would hear it differently today, Roon has improved etc.

The impression of the Pulse models is not they are soft and they are at least equal to the Zen line in all other areas. So I would consider them better in comparison to their Zen counterparts. Actually I’m very impressed by the Pulse and Pulsar even in comparison with more expensive alternatives.

This is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping to get, thank you! I agree that the functionality aspect is very important and could be the determining factor beyond any SQ concerns - if you need AES and some of the Innuos devices don't offer it... those are easy to cross off your list.

But good to hear that the Pulse line potentially sounds better than their Zen counterparts. I liked the Zen Mini mkIII when I tried it but really felt it needed the matching PSU to reach its full potential. And you're right in calling it somewhat "soft" without that.

 

[TheR0v3r]

But good to hear that the Pulse line potentially sounds better than their Zen counterparts. I liked the Zen Mini mkIII when I tried it but really felt it needed the matching PSU to reach its full potential. And you're right in calling it somewhat "soft" without that.

I actually had it with the matching PSU. Totally forgot about that.

 

[skids929]

I actually had it with the matching PSU. Totally forgot about that.

Did you notice much sonic difference between Pulse and Pulse mini w/LPSU when you auditioned?

 

[TheR0v3r]

Did you notice much sonic difference between Pulse and Pulse mini w/LPSU when you auditioned?

Yes, and I’ll explain why.

When I auditioned the two I had an Aqua La Scala Mk II Optologic (wonderful!). However hard I tried I couldn’t make neither sound as good using USB as when using the Pulse with coaxial. The only way I could make USB competitive with the Pulse w/ coaxial was using an Innous Phoenix USB. The Pulse Mini with Phoenix USB and power supply was on par with the Pulse with Phoenix USB, at least as far as I could tell.

The funny thing was that my old Gustard X18 also sounded great with the Pulse w/ coaxial, so I ended up selling the Aqua. Now this isn’t me saying that the Aqua and the Gustard are equal, because they are not. But it sure sounds great!

And now I’m looking for my next DAC.

 

[skids929]

Yes, and I’ll explain why.

When I auditioned the two I had an Aqua La Scala Mk II Optologic (wonderful!). However hard I tried I couldn’t make neither sound as good using USB as when using the Pulse with coaxial. The only way I could make USB competitive with the Pulse w/ coaxial was using an Innous Phoenix USB. The Pulse Mini with Phoenix USB and power supply was on par with the Pulse with Phoenix USB, at least as far as I could tell.

The funny thing was that my old Gustard X18 also sounded great with the Pulse w/ coaxial, so I ended up selling the Aqua. Now this isn’t me saying that the Aqua and the Gustard are equal, because they are not. But it sure sounds great!

And now I’m looking for my next DAC.

Thanks! I considered the Aqua, but moved up to Helene instead...This is why I am debating moving up the chain with Innuos from my current PulseMini with LPSU. I do want the flexibility to use AES and SPDIF, although I think the Helene is oriented towards USB. MY experience is that USB always sounds the weakest of the 3, with AES sounding best, this is with other dacs of course. I don't have the helene until Saturday or Monday so I will see when I get it if SPDIF is better and if so not get the Phoenix.