[Hypops]

I shared your scepticism that any improvement would be possible for these reasons, so didn't bother testing the equivalent of what I'd observed with Bluetooth last year till now. I can only offer a generalised theory or two to maybe explain what I'm hearing: that there is perhaps a higher frequency packet flow between the Remote and Core than we might assume and Core is somehow rather sensitive indeed to some characteristics of this flow. Not to mention that the level of noise/vibration in the Remote device somehow affects this flow.

Sounds at least feasible. And if so, should be something that can be isolated and, perhaps, applied to other remote devices? Or maybe there would be some trait (or group of traits) that could be identified and prioritized for remotes. Huh. Curious if there are any consistent patterns across different network environments. I'll mess around a bit and see if I notice anything.

 

[Jake2]

One more thing I should mention is I tried bypassing Roon Remote and interfacing directly with my Roon Server using Luna remote desktop on the iPad. (I closed Roon Remote apps on both the iPad and Samsung to ensure they weren't doing stuff in the background) The effect of damping the iPad with this was reduced, it was pretty marginal. However overall sonically, compared to Roon Remote it was no contest, Remote by a length - a more expansive and defined sound.

My theory there is the continuous traffic stream of the remote desktop setup must be much higher than with Roon remote (Luna uses low refresh video effectively as well as passing 'mouse' tracking info, click commands) albeit it would've been a packet stream between the Luna apps on each device, with Roon Server only seeing local virtual mouse clicks. So maybe it sounds worse due to a lot of unnecessary traffic, additional processor demands on my server. My Roon Server is a Mac Mini M1 16GB, also running HQPlayer.

Not sure that helps at all...

 

[Hypops]

Huh. Interesting. Perhaps what it amounts to is not taxing the server unnecessarily (whether in terms of raw processing tasks or in terms of network traffic). Haven't yet had a chance to play with it, but that's sounding surprisingly rational (no need for "spooky action at a distance").

 

[Xerosnake90]

I'm using my laptop with Roon Server and then remote controlling from my Tablet or Phone. I was debating buying a streamer but I just don't think it makes sense to continue to spend even more money on things that already work at least at this point.

Once I got the main pieces set (Amp, DAC, Headphone) I started buying some better cables. I just swapped out the power cord on my Lyr+ and am just waiting for the same cord to arrive to add it to my DAC.

I feel at this point having found what I like with Roon/Qobuz and my set up being good I'm done upgrading until I have money to drop on some substantially better gear that will yield more noticeable gains.

 

[Jake2]

Huh. Interesting. Perhaps what it amounts to is not taxing the server unnecessarily (whether in terms of raw processing tasks or in terms of network traffic).

The minimising and smoothing/averaging of network traffic to a near synchronous data flow is indeed the raison d'etre of the Diretta audio protocol, if you've heard of it. Diretta has this goal: averaging of processing and reduction of fluctuations in power consumption. There's a very active and technical thread over at AS on it. Diretta can be used with Roon & HQP.

https://www.diretta.link/

Sorry, going a little OT from Roon, but sorta related.

 

[Progisus]

I use most of the suggested settings the OP has suggested and do find they improve roons sound. When I want to intensely listen to an album I usually switch to logitech media server and a squeezelite endpoint. I always come back to roon's gui and search for my music discovery. When you talk about sound quality of roon on their forums you better wear a flame suit.

 

[littlej0e]

The minimising and smoothing/averaging of network traffic to a near synchronous data flow is indeed the raison d'etre of the Diretta audio protocol, if you've heard of it. Diretta has this goal: averaging of processing and reduction of fluctuations in power consumption. There's a very active and technical thread over at AS on it. Diretta can be used with Roon & HQP.

https://www.diretta.link/

Sorry, going a little OT from Roon, but sorta related.

I sure hope it catches on. Interestingly, this concept doesn't just apply to network traffic. Stability of power and/or signal can have a profound effect on other forms of digital audio processing as well. For example, power stability alone has a tremendous (and cascading) influence on digital audio servers. Keeping things clean, low and steady is key - just like the Diretta protocol.

Speaking of OT-ery, when you put aside all of the super-secret-squirrel tweaks, customizations, and witchdoctor BS...it's actually surprisingly easy and relatively cost-effective to build a simple server for Roon. Mini-ITX boards and Intel NUCs are popular for this use case. Streamers are even easier: https://www.raspberrypi.com/.

 

[TheAttorney]

My question for you and others on this thread who use Roon Remote is have you experimented with optimisations (either software settings and physical) of your Roon Remote device? As I couldn't see much on this thread or elsewhere on HF re this point.

I ask as I found repeatable 'spooky action at a distance' improvements with these tweaks to the Roon Remote device:
- iPad Air superior to Samsung phone
- turning on airplane mode (LTE + BT OFF), with only wifi left on
- physically damping the back of the iPad /phone with piezo-electric materials (an fo.Q SH-22K A5 polymer sheet and/or a zip bag with say 5-10 grams of Rochelle Salt powder) and/or 3K carbon fibre fabric folded over a few times, in each case placed underneath the device.

I found putting my iPad Air 5 into standby helps (by pressing its on/off button). Of course you lose the display and controls when in standby, but it's super quick to enable/disable by one press of the on/off button, much faster than toggling airplane mode. Not sure how the above damping materials will affect this particular test.

 

[dbturbo2]

New Roon Nucleus One just announced at $499!

https://store.roonlabs.com/products/nucleus-one/

 

[rhart00]

New Roon Nucleus One just announced at $499!

https://store.roonlabs.com/products/nucleus-one/

Preordered one yesterday as my very first Nucleus. I have been running Roon server/core off an old desktop that I keep running all the time, mostly just for Roon. Love the price point here. Much more competitive with building your own NUC but plug and play.

 

[HeyWaj10]

New Roon Nucleus One just announced at $499!

https://store.roonlabs.com/products/nucleus-one/

Roon just took the knees out from under every other dedicated music server on the market, IMO. And I'm 100% buying one when it comes out (or as soon as I can). I've been waiting for a truly affordable option like this to come out, and this just ticks all the boxes for me personally. So excited for this!

 

[BS0D]

Noob question: What exactly does 'Nucleus One' offer vs. running Roon OS off my laptop? Is it more for stationary- accessing Roon in multiple rooms?

 

[rhart00]

Noob question: What exactly does 'Nucleus One' offer vs. running Roon OS off my laptop? Is it more for stationary- accessing Roon in multiple rooms?

I have been running Roon core off a desktop with an 800w power supply. Draws significantly more power (to run OS, other apps, background processes, etc.) than I imagine this Nucleus One would. Also you could hardwire this to a router for better connectivity which is difficult to do with a laptop if you are moving it around.

 

[Jake2]

I found putting my iPad Air 5 into standby helps (by pressing its on/off button). Of course you lose the display and controls when in standby, but it's super quick to enable/disable by one press of the on/off button, much faster than toggling airplane mode. Not sure how the above damping materials will affect this particular test.

Further to this I got back from travelling today and re/tested a few things using the Ipad Air as Roon Remote control device, including:
- turning the screen off by pressing the power button along the lines you suggest
- continuing playing with screen off with and without damping materials under the iPad
- disconnecting the iPad/Roon Remote app entirely from Roon Server after initiating playback (I did this by turning off wifi on my iPad but you could probably just close the Roon app).

-- TL;DR the clear cut Roon Remote winner --

The best sounding Roon Remote in my system is no Roon Remote*

*Disconnect the app/tablet/phone from Roon Server after using it to initiate playback and make sure no other Roon Remote mobile devices are sneakily connected in the background.

Same holds true for YouTube btw, the best remote control device for YT is no connected control device.

TIP: wait around 5 seconds between making a change and listening to the delta, muting in the interim not via Roon (I used my Athena preamp remote). I've found there's often a lag with digital domain noise related changes in the 2-4 second range as noise (~jitter?) ramps up or drops down/dissipates. Don't ask me technical reasons/theory why, just observed this repeatedly with grounding, vibration tweaks etc. The 4-5 secs of silence in between also acts a bit like a draught beer between whiskey tastings, cleanses the palate.

-- Longer Version - best to worst --

1. No/disconnected Roon Remote (disconnect after initiating playback as above)
2. Airplane mode ON + only wifi radio ON + damping materials + screen OFF
3. #2, but with screen ON
4. #2, but with no damping (screen OFF)
5. #2 + screen ON, no damping
6. Airplane mode OFF... as well as Wifi, bluetooth & LTE radios ON also
7. #6 + Multiple other apps open in addition to Roon Remote

1 >> 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 >> 6 > 7

What progressively changes to my ear in my system as I move up the chain (from 7 through 1) is this:
- less glare, less grain in treble and midrange, a purer tone
- more palpabilty and natural softness to voices, they present more fullbodied and warm, more real (really quite something at #1)
- the above add up clearer separation between soundstage with greater depth and more sense of space around vocalists and instruments.
- more dynamic scale and weight, tempo, rhythm, especially with #1

Going in the reverse direction glare gets added back in bit by bit, gets a bit lighter & thinner, soundstage flattens and blurs a little.

One downside if you can call it that was with the removal of glare and artificial edginess with #1 is stringed instruments had less transient attack on the leading edge than I'm used to. Might have to revisit my choice of HQPlayer filters and potentially damping levels throughout my system too.

-- YouTube and network setup --

The kicker is I found exactly the same phenomenon with using my iPad as remote for YouTube first, before I got to Roon. Then found similar scale of improvement with Roon.

YMMV. My network chain is reasonably optimised if on a modest budget: YT player (a Panasonic OLED running its native YT app) and Roon Server (Mac Mini M1 16gb also running HQP) are both plugged into my Puritan PSM156 conditioner + Ground Master to dedicated ground rod and have a ground box each; wired ethernet connection for each via a iFi LAN iSilencer to my LHY switch > LAN iSilencer #3 > FMCs pair with LPS > second switch; the upstream switch, router & modem fed by 12v LIFEPO4 battery; all networked devices apart from OLED TV have extensive vibration damping and/or RFI shielding as added over time by trial and error.

Other components as per my sig. Also TV > iFi s/pdif purifier2 (+ power X + DC iPurifier2) > DAC.

-- Misc other observations, comments --

- damping materials as per my previous post
- damping has an effect even when screen off, this effect persisted even after screen had been off for a minute or more (muting via preamp then removing damping with screen still off, waiting 5 secs and vice versa) suggesting ongoing packet exchange to sync the remote and server ready for lag free operation/user commands on screen switch back on
- closing other open apps has a minor effect.
- [PLACEHOLDER...]

Phew. Sorry for the novel. Bonsoir.

 

[RKClem]

It will come in pair with optical wire. The one that will connect to streamer will need to be powered with LPS. The first box doesn’t need LPS.

I have used below in past
1.25G Gigabit Ethernet Media... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XZ6CV6W?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

With below cable
FiberCablesDirect - 9M OS2 SC SC... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009938D7G?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I realise this is an old post but hopefully you can help. My setup is currently Router ->ethernet-> Silent angel Switch->ethernet-> Antipodes box (server) ->ethernet-> Antipodes box (player) ->USB-> Chord MScaler etc. I have ordered 2 x Fiber to Ethernet Media Converters. The question, where do i put it in the chain for best results? Cheers!

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