[Zuckfun]

With so many listening to Orange Globes recently, I realized that I hadn't listened to them in awhile. So, I spent the afternoon comparing a set of 1968 Orange Globe O-Getters to a set of USN-CEP's. I used Senn HD800's, Audeze LCD-3's and Denon AH-D7000's. Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack.

First, I have to say that I only listen to classical; but I compared using various orchestral, chamber, choral/vocal and solo piano music.

The short version: in all of these categories, to my ears, the USN-CEP's are in a class above the OG's. Not in the class of the S&H CCa or Amperex pinched waists, but very high on my hit parade. BUT, I think I can see where for certain types of music, with certain headphones, the OG's can really shine.

With the HD800 I immediately noticed a liquid warmth with the OG's; the bass and low-mids were very good. But to me, the mids and low-highs were a little recessed. This was most apparent with orchestral music. With violins - they were not quite as forward as they should have been in the mid-frequencies. Detail was good throughout, but the soundstage was shallow and wide, giving a very left/right feeling that was not ideal for orchestral music. This close presence of sound worked much better with chamber music/smaller ensemble. These tubes really gave me an "in-your-face" impression. I don't think HD800's are best with these tubes either. For orchestral 6/10. Chamber music/smaller ensemble/solos 7/10.

The OG's, especially the mids, were much better with the LCD-3's. Still a little laid back, especially with orchestral (still congested, lacking soundstage/air/height), but better. Piano music was nice with the HD800, but better with the LCD-3. Same with chamber music. Orchestral is just too crowded. Orchestral 7/10. Chamber/small ensemble/solo 8/10.

Finally, the D7000's. The best of the 3 for sheer musical enjoyment! The added bass and low-mids give a warm, liquid, lyrical presentation. The mids are still a little recessed, but so smooth that you just don't notice it as much (or care as much!). The warmth of these phones also tamed the highs a little, which I found musically pleasing. Even orchestral sounded good, except that in very dense passages with fast bass movement (Mahler 5) things got muddy/sloppy. Piano music was good, but there was a little treble resonance missing that gave the piano a not quite natural sound. All genres 8.5/10.

Then I went through the same sequence with the Amperex USN-CEP's. With the HD800 bass response was very fast with better separation in the instruments (more "air") than the Orange Globes. The sound seemed "purer" - I'm not sure how else to describe it - a better presentation. The soundstage was still not very deep (it was wide), but somehow it mattered less with these tubes. The mid-high and high frequencies sounded cleaner and more natural. Piano sounded more correct with all frequencies present. All genres 9/10.

With the LCD-3's - same comments. Overall better sound/presentation, albeit a little warmer with the LCD's; not quite as good as the HD800's on orchestral, but the slight added warmth makes chamber music (particularly with bright recordings) sound great; piano sounds great too, as does choral/vocal. Overall 9/10.

Now for the big surprise - the Denon D7000's - Warm, musical, lyrical, beautiful; similar comments to the OG's, but these are better - no sloppiness in fast bass passages; very clean, beautiful orchestral; cleaner highs; you really hear the biggest differences with these phones; chamber music, vocal and piano too - Wow!; All genres 10/10.

Great write-up, and interesting, Thanks.

 

[nelamvr6]

Quote:

With so many listening to Orange Globes recently, I realized that I hadn't listened to them in awhile. So, I spent the afternoon comparing a set of 1968 Orange Globe O-Getters to a set of USN-CEP's. I used Senn HD800's, Audeze LCD-3's and Denon AH-D7000's. Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack.

First, I have to say that I only listen to classical; but I compared using various orchestral, chamber, choral/vocal and solo piano music.

The short version: in all of these categories, to my ears, the USN-CEP's are in a class above the OG's. Not in the class of the S&H CCa or Amperex pinched waists, but very high on my hit parade. BUT, I think I can see where for certain types of music, with certain headphones, the OG's can really shine.

With the HD800 I immediately noticed a liquid warmth with the OG's; the bass and low-mids were very good. But to me, the mids and low-highs were a little recessed. This was most apparent with orchestral music. With violins - they were not quite as forward as they should have been in the mid-frequencies. Detail was good throughout, but the soundstage was shallow and wide, giving a very left/right feeling that was not ideal for orchestral music. This close presence of sound worked much better with chamber music/smaller ensemble. These tubes really gave me an "in-your-face" impression. I don't think HD800's are best with these tubes either. For orchestral 6/10. Chamber music/smaller ensemble/solos 7/10.

The OG's, especially the mids, were much better with the LCD-3's. Still a little laid back, especially with orchestral (still congested, lacking soundstage/air/height), but better. Piano music was nice with the HD800, but better with the LCD-3. Same with chamber music. Orchestral is just too crowded. Orchestral 7/10. Chamber/small ensemble/solo 8/10.

Finally, the D7000's. The best of the 3 for sheer musical enjoyment! The added bass and low-mids give a warm, liquid, lyrical presentation. The mids are still a little recessed, but so smooth that you just don't notice it as much (or care as much!). The warmth of these phones also tamed the highs a little, which I found musically pleasing. Even orchestral sounded good, except that in very dense passages with fast bass movement (Mahler 5) things got muddy/sloppy. Piano music was good, but there was a little treble resonance missing that gave the piano a not quite natural sound. All genres 8.5/10.

Then I went through the same sequence with the Amperex USN-CEP's. With the HD800 bass response was very fast with better separation in the instruments (more "air") than the Orange Globes. The sound seemed "purer" - I'm not sure how else to describe it - a better presentation. The soundstage was still not very deep (it was wide), but somehow it mattered less with these tubes. The mid-high and high frequencies sounded cleaner and more natural. Piano sounded more correct with all frequencies present. All genres 9/10.

With the LCD-3's - same comments. Overall better sound/presentation, albeit a little warmer with the LCD's; not quite as good as the HD800's on orchestral, but the slight added warmth makes chamber music (particularly with bright recordings) sound great; piano sounds great too, as does choral/vocal. Overall 9/10.

Now for the big surprise - the Denon D7000's - Warm, musical, lyrical, beautiful; similar comments to the OG's, but these are better - no sloppiness in fast bass passages; very clean, beautiful orchestral; cleaner highs; you really hear the biggest differences with these phones; chamber music, vocal and piano too - Wow!; All genres 10/10.

 
I had a very similar experience with the  USN-CEPs, though I don't listen to a lot of classical.  In fact, they were my number one favorite tube for quite a while.
 
I do listen to prog rock a lot, so I am acquainted with music with a lot going on at once.  But the acoustic nature of classical, and the extreme dynamic range, not to mention the broad frequency range, make it a very challenging test for any tube.
 
The USN-CEPs, and for that matter the RTCs that sceleratus loves, are incredible tubes.  I freely admit that.
 
But music without vocals, and music with an very wide frequency range, like classical, will not necessarily give the OGs their best chance to shine.  To me their most endearing aspect is that magic midrange.
 
Just out of curiosity, did you include any opera in your audition?
 
In reality, you're gonna be in great shape with any of these tubes, the OGs, the USN-CEPs, or the RTCs.

 

[R Scott Ireland]

Great write-up, and interesting, Thanks.

My pleasure! It's always fun listening to such great tubes.

 

[R Scott Ireland]

I had a very similar experience with the  USN-CEPs, though I don't listen to a lot of classical.  In fact, they were my number one favorite tube for quite a while.

I do listen to prog rock a lot, so I am acquainted with music with a lot going on at once.  But the acoustic nature of classical, and the extreme dynamic range, not to mention the broad frequency range, make it a very challenging test for any tube.

The USN-CEPs, and for that matter the RTCs that sceleratus loves, are incredible tubes.  I freely admit that.

But music without vocals, and music with an very wide frequency range, like classical, will not necessarily give the OGs their best chance to shine.  To me their most endearing aspect is that magic midrange.

Just out of curiosity, did you include any opera in your audition?

In reality, you're gonna be in great shape with any of these tubes, the OGs, the USN-CEPs, or the RTCs.

I did listen to Beethoven's Missa solemnis, more like a cantata than an opera, but the vocal soloists (soprano, alto, tenor and bass) sounded good with both sets of tubes - the OG's sounding good with the warmer headphones.

I suspect, based on my listening today, that the OG's really shine best with the warmer headphones. I think that's why I liked them so much with the D7000's (re-cabled with Moon Black Dragon wire) and next with the LCD-3's. I bet they would mate even better with LCD-2's.

 

[Overwerk]

ok, so i took quite some plunge recently with tubes:
 
1. bought the last pair of oranges from Mr mercedezman(absoolutely the best tube specialist on ebay, PROPS, strongly recommended for everyone to go buy his stuff)
 
AMAZING!! the amount of speed and detail is phenomenal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321138597034?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
the bass, OMG, What, holy ****, WOW!
 
sadly for others it's the last pair he was selling.
 
Have these little sister 5 years younger coming in. A frame instead of o frame, wondering how they will bedazzle me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321141845531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
 
 
2. TELEFUKENS!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290904826507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
extremely neutral, not a hint of coloration. detail is off the charts, soundstage is natural and xpansive therefore making seperation effortless, yet the soundstage is so 3D making everything work together intimately.
 
 
3. matsu****as, obviously. from tubemonger, sadly I bought them before their May sale, still it's not too crazy expensive and I believe it's their bestseller and what they touted "best buy"
 
I would call this a mini telefunken with much more emotion to them. I have listened to them quite a while, and they surely are the workhorse. they are very mid centric, a great match to further the AKG magic. I enjoy them a lot.
They are available both on ebay and on tubemonger, sold by tubemonger.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsu****a-E88CC-6922-Japan-NOS-NIB-Mullard-Tooling-MPs-/160292251806
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
 
I don't think they are unbeatable at the price though. For bassheads and high fanatics there are better choices, and and a large amount of detail is lacking comparing to higher tier tubes such as telefunken.
 
they just lack the overall presence of an expansive soundstage and feels very thin  comparing to peers. But again, their strength is in the mid. A must have for people who listen mainly to light music such as female vocals singers and new age/light classical pieces
 
another nitpick is that these things look ugly and the red letterings got flaked off easily(although I have used them for a while it's not like I scrub them on a daily basis and they are all smudged and I can't tell a single letter any more, I don't remember how they looked like when I got them but I am sure I can find pictures taken as proof, but those links can give you an idea--when new the MADE IN JAPAN is pretty cool, except it never last long at all)
 
4. stock lyr tubes before they changed to e88cc was GE 6bz7, very noisy tubes, Jason sent me a second pair and they are still noisy. I picked 2 tubes out of the 4 I have that are less noisy, but I still don't  ever use them for music. 
 
5, JJ e88cc, largely available for 10-15$ a pop and 20-30$ a pair. Solid entry level tubes, nothing amazing about them.

 

[OmsJtmz32]

ok, so i took quite some plunge recently with tubes:

1. bought the last pair of oranges from Mr mercedezman(absoolutely the best tube specialist on ebay, PROPS, strongly recommended for everyone to go buy his stuff)

AMAZING!! the amount of speed and detail is phenomenal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321138597034?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

the bass, OMG, What, holy ****, WOW!

sadly for others it's the last pair he was selling.

Have these little sister 5 years younger coming in. A frame instead of o frame, wondering how they will bedazzle me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321141845531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649



2. TELEFUKENS!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290904826507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

extremely neutral, not a hint of coloration. detail is off the charts, soundstage is natural and xpansive therefore making seperation effortless, yet the soundstage is so 3D making everything work together intimately.


3. matsu****as, obviously. from tubemonger, sadly I bought them before their May sale, still it's not too crazy expensive and I believe it's their bestseller and what they touted "best buy"

I would call this a mini telefunken with much more emotion to them. I have listened to them quite a while, and they surely are the workhorse. they are very mid centric, a great match to further the AKG magic. I enjoy them a lot.
They are available both on ebay and on tubemonger, sold by tubemonger.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsu****a-E88CC-6922-Japan-NOS-NIB-Mullard-Tooling-MPs-/160292251806
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm

I don't think they are unbeatable at the price though. For bassheads and high fanatics there are better choices, and and a large amount of detail is lacking comparing to higher tier tubes such as telefunken.

they just lack the overall presence of an expansive soundstage and feels very thin  comparing to peers. But again, their strength is in the mid. A must have for people who listen mainly to light music such as female vocals singers and new age/light classical pieces

another nitpick is that these things look ugly and the red letterings got flaked off easily(although I have used them for a while it's not like I scrub them on a daily basis and they are all smudged and I can't tell a single letter any more, I don't remember how they looked like when I got them but I am sure I can find pictures taken as proof, but those links can give you an idea--when new the MADE IN JAPAN is pretty cool, except it never last long at all)

4. stock lyr tubes before they changed to e88cc was GE 6bz7, very noisy tubes, Jason sent me a second pair and they are still noisy. I picked 2 tubes out of the 4 I have that are less noisy, but I still don't  ever use them for music. 

5, JJ e88cc, largely available for 10-15$ a pop and 20-30$ a pair. Solid entry level tubes, nothing amazing about them.

Agree that the GE tubes are very noisy, but still i managed to use it for one month before changing to the exact OG tubes that u said it is sold out. Lucky i order last week haha now waiting for it to arrive

 

[Overwerk]

Quote:

Agree that the GE tubes are very noisy, but still i managed to use it for one month before changing to the exact OG tubes that u said it is sold out. Lucky i order last week haha now waiting for it to arrive

how come it took so long? I ordered the last pair and I got it a few days ago and you still don't have it? What? where do you live bro
 
oh singapore nvm

 

[Overwerk]

So anyone know why this miniwatt thing is highly sought after|?
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E88CC-Gold-Pins-NIB-NOS-Pair-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-/251294243186?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&nma=true&si=o4t08HDgpOSol%252FqsA6jc0Jxp5QQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
 
i bidded like till 60 bucks and there were 3 people bidding together at the last 5 seconds and they all bidded 100$+, What? 
 
There is only one close picture of these, sure they look like they are never used, ,although the seller claim they have 10 hours on them. They look cool, but they don't look like, nor did the seller claim they are anything close to "matched pair". 
 
The other pictures doesn't show whether these are SQ or not. If they are SQ then they should be worth way more than 120 bucks, but if they are not--are there miniwatts that are not SQ? I am sure no?
 
PLEASE someone who knows about these tell me that 120 bucks is overkill for these so I don't feel bad 0.0

 

[nelamvr6]

Quote:

ok, so i took quite some plunge recently with tubes:
 
1. bought the last pair of oranges from Mr mercedezman(absoolutely the best tube specialist on ebay, PROPS, strongly recommended for everyone to go buy his stuff)
 
AMAZING!! the amount of speed and detail is phenomenal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321138597034?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
the bass, OMG, What, holy ****, WOW!
 
sadly for others it's the last pair he was selling.
 
Have these little sister 5 years younger coming in. A frame instead of o frame, wondering how they will bedazzle me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321141845531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
 
 
2. TELEFUKENS!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290904826507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
extremely neutral, not a hint of coloration. detail is off the charts, soundstage is natural and xpansive therefore making seperation effortless, yet the soundstage is so 3D making everything work together intimately.
 
 
3. matsu****as, obviously. from tubemonger, sadly I bought them before their May sale, still it's not too crazy expensive and I believe it's their bestseller and what they touted "best buy"
 
I would call this a mini telefunken with much more emotion to them. I have listened to them quite a while, and they surely are the workhorse. they are very mid centric, a great match to further the AKG magic. I enjoy them a lot.
They are available both on ebay and on tubemonger, sold by tubemonger.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsu****a-E88CC-6922-Japan-NOS-NIB-Mullard-Tooling-MPs-/160292251806
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
 
I don't think they are unbeatable at the price though. For bassheads and high fanatics there are better choices, and and a large amount of detail is lacking comparing to higher tier tubes such as telefunken.
 
they just lack the overall presence of an expansive soundstage and feels very thin  comparing to peers. But again, their strength is in the mid. A must have for people who listen mainly to light music such as female vocals singers and new age/light classical pieces
 
another nitpick is that these things look ugly and the red letterings got flaked off easily(although I have used them for a while it's not like I scrub them on a daily basis and they are all smudged and I can't tell a single letter any more, I don't remember how they looked like when I got them but I am sure I can find pictures taken as proof, but those links can give you an idea--when new the MADE IN JAPAN is pretty cool, except it never last long at all)
 
4. stock lyr tubes before they changed to e88cc was GE 6bz7, very noisy tubes, Jason sent me a second pair and they are still noisy. I picked 2 tubes out of the 4 I have that are less noisy, but I still don't  ever use them for music. 
 
5, JJ e88cc, largely available for 10-15$ a pop and 20-30$ a pair. Solid entry level tubes, nothing amazing about them.

 
 
I'll be curious to hear your opinions of the O getters versus the A Frames...

 

[HK_sends]

For anyone interested:
 
http://stores.ebay.com/jimbargins123/_i.html?_nkw=e188cc&submit=Search&_sid=1048181327
 
Got this tipper from TubeMonger...they said the price is good.  Neither TubeMonger nor I are affiliated with this seller in any way.
 
Cheers!

-HK sends

 

[Overwerk]

Quote:

For anyone interested:
 
http://stores.ebay.com/jimbargins123/_i.html?_nkw=e188cc&submit=Search&_sid=1048181327
 
Got this tipper from TubeMonger...they said the price is good.  Neither TubeMonger nor I are affiliated with this seller in any way.
 
Cheers!

-HK sends

what's special about these tubes? i saw them, probably wil not beat telefunkens ?|

 

[Overwerk]

sick of tube hunting on ebay, 
 
i just found some cheap telefunkens sold by upscale audio.
 
ordered 

cryo platinum teles ​

from
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html 
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html
for 274 bucks
 
 
about the same price I paid for what seem to be regular teles sold by tubemuseum.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290904826507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I regret having bought there a few days ago but oh well. Doesn't matter now if I could have bought them for 180 bucks as regular grade tubes with no cryo treatment from upscale-.-they are what you would call best of the best tubes, so I guess I should not be cheap on them--so I went for cryo and platinum instead of taking advantage of the cheaper pricing
 
Anyone can tell if  ( i bought the second pair) are comparable to the upscale audio ones? I have no idea how you can tell which telefunkens are better, they all seem the same except the upscale ones obviously look much newer, or at least from the picture, who knows how many they have and they probably won't even tell you information on the cryo treatment or the results they got for that platinum certification.
 
also ordered these for end game cryo gold ions
 
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=81&products_id=324&osCsid=120e2b1e84df8fe47fba3f0f30c1edd2
 
I already received these but still haven't listened to it much
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400505220853?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
going to compare these seemingly regular lions to the super cryo ones above.
 
have these coming in
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161055748879?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350817155962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 as end game dampers
 
I was about to  buy this
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390615723907?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 
but it seems like they were sold at 60 bucks lowest and this particular listing takes 1.5 month max to get to my place which is absurd so it will have to pass. Not much props heard about these green military JAN amperex 6922 anyways--if i am correct these things should have the globe UFO figure too, as seen on other listings such as this one
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Amperex-Globe-6922-6DJ8-tubes-gold-pin-/111048271232?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19dafe2580&nma=true&si=o4t08HDgpOSol%252FqsA6jc0Jxp5QQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
 
 
TLDR/.moral of the story
 
bought a bunch of ****, made a bunch of mistakes, but I tried, and now I am burnt out mentally physically and financially and I am good to sit back and enjoy the music, oh no wait, i still have 10 pages of tubes on watch list on ebay, some 10 listings outbid, shall I ignore?
 
I think enough is enough. 
 
I hope people can learn from my experience...just my 2 cents
 
oh, and as I speak I just ordered these cryo-ed platinum grade
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/ (link does not work, but the item should be still available, the upscale audio website links gets funky)
 
for a subtotal of 86 bucks..OMG what is wrong with me.--
 
after i bought them telefunkens I checked the 37 reviews, and found at least one other LYR owner who bought the exact same thing. CHEERS
 
All the meanwhile I am listening to some Kertesz/ancerl/kubelik/paray/neumann Dvorak From the New World 9th symphony.

 

[tuna47]

I have the orange globe Aframes very nice never had o getters so can not compare

 

[R Scott Ireland]

The A frames I have seem to sound their best with the Senn HD650.

 

[GermanGuy]

just posted a very efficient way to clean tube pins in another thread, but maybe some of the tube rolling thread members are interested in my solution, so just crossposting the link here:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/630#post_9573905