Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread
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Jul 22, 2013 at 9:04 AM Post #8,701 of 8,735
Quote:
 
 
Any thoughts on these?
 
http://tubedepot.com/nos-6922-tesla.html

Those are not much of an upgrade to the stock tubes to my ears. If your looking for a lower priced offering, I would look at the JAN 6922 Military spec such as these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-USA-JAN-6922-Tube-Military-Spec-6DJ8-Premium-Quality-ECC88-E88CC-CCa-/370831828059?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item56574ca45b, while not the best, they are much more of an upgrade then the Tesla's.
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 12:43 PM Post #8,703 of 8,735
Some info for those new to the thread.  From www.tubeworld.com
 
Code:
 [b]6DJ8 HISTORY[/b] HISTORY: ------- The 6DJ8 is a frame grid sharp cut-off twin (dual) triode with separate cathodes originally intended for use as a cascode circuits, RF and IF amplifiers, mixer and phase inverter stages. Originally the 6DJ8 had popular applications in: tuners in television receivers, front ends of VHF radio receivers. One triode acted as the local oscillator and the other as the mixer (frequency changer). Tektronix test equipment. Although not designed for the purpose the ECC88 has found favour with builders of high performance audio equipment. The tube features high transconductance, low plate resistance and low noise properties. PCC88=7DJ8 can be substituted for the 6DJ8/ECC88 6N23P=Russian made 6DJ8/ECC88 6N1P subs are 6922 and 6DJ8 ELECTRICAL DATA: --------------- MAX RATINGS: ----------- Heater voltage 6.3V Heater current 365mA Max plate voltage (Ia=0) 550V Max operating plate voltage 130V * Max plate dissipation 1.8W Max plate current 25mA Max grid voltage -50V TYPICAL OPERATION: ----------------- Heater = 6.3 Heater Current = 365ma Vplate = 90V Vgrid = -1.2V Iplate = 15ma Rplate = 2650 ohms Gm = 12500 Mu = 33 The Best Sounding 6DJ8=ECC88 ever made are: ------------------------------------------ 6DJ8 Siemens West Germany 1960's (nothing beats this tube; accurate, open, focused, detailed, airy, tight bass) 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland "D" getter 1950's (superbly musical 6DJ8, nice articulate bass, 3D sound) 6DJ8 Telefunken West Germany 1960's (a little bass shy, but superbly smooth and listenable long term) 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 1960's 6DJ8 Amperex Holland 1960's and Amperex Holland Globe Logo late 1960's - mid 1970's (some are branded Philips Miniwatt) CV5358=6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (smooth, good bass, the older versions are the best) 6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (either branded Mullard or Philips or Amperex Great Britain) 6DJ8 Sylvania late 1960's - mid 1970's (excellent sound for the money, best value) 6DJ8 GE USA 1960's - 1970's (good value)

 
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 12:54 PM Post #8,704 of 8,735
Thanks. I'm kind of going by the descriptions on audiotubes.com at the moment.
 
Basically what I'm gathering:
 
Telefunken and Siemens = neutral
Mullards = warm, good vocals
Amperex/Phillips = mix of warmth and neutrality
 
Is that pretty accurate? I'm open to trying a number of different tubes, the stock GE's are pleasant enough as it is. Plus my two main headphones (AD2000x, HD800) are quite different anyway...I feel warm tubes would benefit the HD800, neutral tubes would benefit the AD2000x.
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 1:16 PM Post #8,705 of 8,735
Quote:

I've owned USN-CEP's in the past but sold them when I discovered RTC's.  I thought the RTC's were much better.  Now, since the RTC's don't sound as good in my new amp as my 58' Valvo's and BB's, I have just purchased a pair of the USN-CEP's .
 
Zuckfun thanks for the lead.  The valves look absolutely pristine.
 
I will list my 1965 RTC's for $175 in a day or two. ( or PM an offer)
Both are "⊿ 5 D 2"
16mA/16mA
16mA/17mA
 
 
 
I posted the picture with two sets is just to show the box.  I sold 1967 set a month ago, so only the 1965's are available.
 
The silks are 70% The code on one valve is easy to read the other needs an magnifying glass at "just the right angle" but the code is 100% readable.
 

 

 

 
Jul 22, 2013 at 1:29 PM Post #8,706 of 8,735
Quote:
Thanks. I'm kind of going by the descriptions on audiotubes.com at the moment.
 
Basically what I'm gathering:
 
Telefunken and Siemens = neutral
Mullards = warm, good vocals
Amperex/Phillips = mix of warmth and neutrality
 
Is that pretty accurate? I'm open to trying a number of different tubes, the stock GE's are pleasant enough as it is. Plus my two main headphones (AD2000x, HD800) are quite different anyway...I feel warm tubes would benefit the HD800, neutral tubes would benefit the AD2000x.


Are you using the Marantz SACD as a source?  The feedback I'm getting from some folks who are using the Bifrost solid state DAC is a very upfront nature - and a brighter then neutral sound.  Especially with the Uber upgrade which produces an even more upfront presentation.
 
This is most likely attributed to the Bifrost's use of the AKM DAC 4399 chip.  Especially when DC servo coupled vs. capacitor coupled as in the Uber upgrade.  When I heard my friends Bifrost - it sounded bright and very forward to my ears.  It did have good detail.  I attributed that to it being a solid state DAC, but now looking back it was even more forward then any solid state DAC I've heard.  It reminds me of an old Krell that I had - that sucker was ear bleeding bright.
 
This chip pretty is much the same as in my APL NWO DAC, except APL uses a 10 DAC chip/per channel DAC ladder.  And most importantly Lundahl transformer coupling and class A tube output.  This retains the AKMs resolution, but tames it's bright edginess.    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aplhifi/nwo30go.html
 
Of course the DAC chip alone is not the end of the story but implementation.  Now Jfets, which the Bifrost uses are not known to be soft or warm.
 
Bottom line for you is that a lot of folks here have the Bifrost and you have the Marantz (with I believe uses the Cirrus Logic chip).  From what I can tell the folks here who have the Bifrost tend to prefer the warmer-softer 'British' and 'Dutch" sound.
 
Are you thinking of getting a Bifrost?
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 1:37 PM Post #8,707 of 8,735
Yes, I'm currently using the SACD8004 as a source/DAC. I want to say it is slightly warm. It sounded warmer vs the Oppo 105 I tried it against, also I have not found the HD800 overly bright as some people do.
 
At the moment, I'm not planning on buying a separate DAC.
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 1:56 PM Post #8,708 of 8,735
I've owned USN-CEP's in the past but sold them when I discovered RTC's.  I thought the RTC's were much better.  Now, since the RTC's don't sound as good in my new amp as my 58' Valvo's and BB's, I have just purchased a pair of the USN-CEP's .

Zuckfun thanks for the lead.  The valves look absolutely pristine.
Thanks go to rb for finding this. A great price for an amazing tube.
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 2:32 PM Post #8,709 of 8,735
Quote:
Yes, I'm currently using the SACD8004 as a source/DAC. I want to say it is slightly warm. It sounded warmer vs the Oppo 105 I tried it against, also I have not found the HD800 overly bright as some people do.
 
At the moment, I'm not planning on buying a separate DAC.


You have good ears - the Oppo uses the ESS SABRE 32 DAC a [size=x-small]delta-sigma modulator[/size] like the AKM.   They tend to be bright - as you heard.  It has to do with the HF noise that this design of DAC produces.  This has to be filtered but a[size=x-small]ll of this HF noise can cause many audible artifacts downstream[/size].   Now the Cirrus CS4398 in your Marantz is a delta-sigma modulator as well - but it uses some shaping technology that minimizes this noise issue.
 
Your take on the HD800 says a lot.  I believe many, not all, on this thread prefer the ortho's darker sound.  Makes sense - their darker nature help moderate the Bifrost's upfront, bright nature.  The Bifrost is an amazing DAC for the money - just has a certain characteristic that may not mate well with certain tubes, and be perfect with others.
 
Just some things to keep in mind when reviewing tubes. 
 
Good Luck!
 
 
Jul 22, 2013 at 2:34 PM Post #8,710 of 8,735
Quote:
Thanks go to rb for finding this. A great price for an amazing tube.


Your tip of the hat is appreciated!
bigsmile_face.gif

 
Jul 22, 2013 at 3:00 PM Post #8,713 of 8,735
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How to convince GoldfishX to jump on this offer. It's known the USN-CEP's pair great with the HD-800's, and finding these tubes for less than $300 is rare. If these were the first tubes I bought, I'd be almost $1000 richer. Although all the triumphs and tribulations of tube rolling: priceless.

Yo Buba!
Correct-a-mundo.
 
These valves were most excellent with my Lyr and LCD2's
I am looking forward to rolling them into my 300B
 
I paid  $300+ the first time I bought them and they didn't look anywhere near as nice as these. (see photo)
Anyway, there are two fewer available.
 
 

 
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