Schiit Syn Surround Processor Reviews/Impressions
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:03 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 124

bweiss711

New Head-Fier
Joined
Apr 4, 2023
Posts
31
Likes
287
Location
Chicago
syn-main-1920-2.jpg


https://www.schiit.com/products/syn

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-7671#post-17485928

* The first few posts were originally posted in the Jason Stoddard's Schiit Happened thread. I copied them here so the Syn can have its own dedicated thread with some initial impressions. Feel free to share your experiences, or ask questions about the Syn here.
 
Last edited:
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:04 PM Post #2 of 124
Wanted to share my thoughts on the Syn and why I believe this is the perfect product for me. I am this niche. It should be delivered today and can't wait to get my hands on it.

I love surround and have had various forms of it the past 15 years. When I finally built a dedicated home theater in 2017, Atmos was starting to be marketed as the next big thing. But even at that time, I didnt want to go down that rabbit hole of running wires to new atmos channels every time the next best reciever with more height channels became available. I decided to forgo Atmos, install 7.1, and be happy with it. I'm still happy with that decision. I have stress-free, really good and immersive surround sound for everything and anything I want. This is all to say, I have been all about this never-obsolete-stop-chasing-the-latest-and-greatest approach to doing surround well before the Syn was released.

I'm going to use the Syn in my office/gaming/listening room. As stated, I love surround sound, and have been battling getting good surround for pc gaming for a decade now. I've used the 7.1 pre-outs on motherboards into an old Onkyo reciever with analog multi-channel inputs. That was fine, but every motherboard upgrade comes with different quality onboard sound, varying degrees of noise floor, and pops to the amp every time the computer boots, shuts down, and sometimes when just changing the sound output on the PC. I finally got sick of that, and tried a usb 7.1 surround processor with a headphone amp. In short, it was garbage. The headphone amp was terrible and the processor would intermittently drop channels. It was useless for gaming. And i never want to go down the HDMI path from GPU into a receiver. HDMI passthrough is just a nightmare with resolution and variable refreshrate standards and support being so inconsistent.

So last month, I finally gave up on the surround experiment altogether. I pulled the wires and surround speakers and decided to simply make my stereo set-up as good as possible. And I love it. Sounds phenomenal when i move my chair back and listen from about 6 or 7 feet. And the imaging holds up when at my desk for gaming. I was happy.

And then last week, I see the Syn released, which solves every single problem I had with pc gaming surround sound. I couldn't believe it. I've already got this beautiful 2 channel set-up, and all I have to do is add this easily integratable component (plus a couple amps), put back my surround speakers, re-run the wires and I'll have the exact set-up I've been chasing literally since 2013. Now I'm ecstatic.

The only thing I wish was available was a 3-channel amp in a Gjallarhorn chasis. That would make the integration into an existing 2 channel system as seamless as possible. But, i guess that'd be a little greedy considering how perfect this is already. I'll report back with some impressions. Hopefully I'm still as excited about it as I am now after getting everything up and running again.
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:05 PM Post #3 of 124
I received my Syn yesterday, and spent all night setting it up and messing around with it. Here are my initial impressions. All are subject to change for better or worse with more experience.

Things I dont like so far:
- Looks like I won a free t-shirt. The silkscreen labels are reversed for the Center and Surround level.
- The remote. The functionality is great. And I knew what type of remote is was from the pictures on the website, and I saw CheapAudioMan's review. Even armed with that prior knowlege, I was still underwhelmed by the quality of the remote. I've ordered a few pieces of Schiit before the Syn, and this is the first time I got something that felt like, well, a piece of...
- No subwoofer output control. I read Jason's write-ups, and understand the reasoning behind removing it. There is level control on all subs, the front panel is cramped, and any other number of development related reasons. But it would be nice to be able to bump up the bass for gaming/movies, and then take it down a couple notches to blend in better for music.

Things I love:
- The ability to turn off the center/sub/surr channels and use it only for 2 channel stereo at the press of a couple buttons. Love this flexibilty. I used to have to jump through multiple hoops to switch from stereo to multichannel in previous setups. This couldnt be easier.
- The sound quality is awesome for gaming. I'm not good enough to know if its more the dac or the output stage, probably both. But this thing sounds so clear and crisp, its kind of spooky. That initial millisecond of sound coming from a burst of a gun sounds so pure.
- Movies were tremendous. I watched the first beach invasion scene from Edge of Tomorrow and really enjoyed it. Im confident in saying I would have never questioned if it was or wasnt a discrete 5.1 mix if i didn't know better.
- The "presence" knob. I watched some YouTube TV. It was just the post-game show from the Bulls game, and it sounded so forward and harsh. I was really impressed by how much of a difference turning down that 2k band made.

Things I'm still working through:
- So many potentiometers. This is a "me" problem, and not a Syn problem, but I have a pot on the Saga S, master pot on the Syn, pots on the surround and center channels, and then each of my amps have pots on them as well (Emotiva A100 for the mains, Ayima A07s for the surrounds and center). Still playing around with them all to figure out how to balance them all.
- Surround for gaming. I'm really, really impressed so far. I was worried about how this would go with surround coming from a matrix instead of object oriented. How would someone shooting from behind sound? Certainly, I had no problem with sounds coming from the left or right. And for the most part front and back was fine. But I still need more time with it. Footsteps seemed like they always sounded like they were behind me, even if they weren't in game. Not enough time on task here to make a concrete conclusion, but im still working through it. But I can say confidently, it is good enough for casual, single player gaming. For more competitve FPS, I use headphones anyways.
- Music in general. Its not that its bad, its just I still dont know what to make of it. I've spent so much energy the past 6 or 8 weeks focusing on making my 2 channel stereo set-up as good as possible, it was jarring to make such an abrupt switch. I'm still working on balancing the level of all the channels. But defintely some types of music lend itself better than others. I had a lot of fun listening to a couple tracks on Metallica SM2. Felt like you were in the amplitheater. Some more airy/acoustic music sounded cool too. Others were less than impressive. But again, i just need more time with it. Right now, seems like music is more of a really, really cool to have rather than any kind of replacement for 2 channel. But again, thats the absoulute beauty of this thing. You can have both at any given time with the press of a couple buttons.

More to come as I keep figuring it out. Its still baffling to me how one single product could solve so annoyances and headaches at once. But this one does.
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:06 PM Post #4 of 124
Spent another night with the Syn. The first night was more about the inital set-up and exploration of its capabilities. Last night, I was able to focus on fine tuning the channel balance and shaping. And wow, after getting this thing dialed in, all my open questions from the first night have been answered. What an experience.

Its kind of hard to explain the process of getting the channels properly balanced. The best I can say is it reminds me of getting a subwoofer properly matched to a 2-channel system. You spend all this time tweaking the crossover by fractions of a Hz and barely moving the volume dial up and down until all of a sudden, it locks in, and you know you've got it right. Pretty similar experience geting all the channels from the Syn balanced, but even then, this analogy breaks down because you know what a properly tuned subwoofer is supposed to sound like. No peaks or gaps in the response, and when you get it right, you really can't hear it until you turn of the sub off, and then you realize how much it was adding to the music. With the Syn, there really isn't a playbook for how its supposed to sound. You just keep tweaking settings until it seems right. And then you try the next song, and it still seems right. And then another, and another. It still sounds good, and you don't even notice it anymore. Until, you turn off the surround channels and realize how much it is adding to the music. Its really, really cool.

And just to try to paint a better picture of what music sounds like through the Syn, it is NOT anything like "All Channel Stereo" like you might find on most AVRs. You're not getting the same sounds pounded into your ears from all directions like the garbage compactor in Star Wars. Instead, the soundstage and imaging from the main 2 channels still exists just like it would without the surround channels. The center image is locked in a bit more and the surround channels are more of an ambient enhancer to the soundstage rather than something you're actively trying to listen to. This results in something that creates a sense of expansiveness in some tracks to others where you are completly enveloped in the wall of sound. My favorite song so far has been Deftones Change (In the House of Flies). The song intro gives that airy sense of expanse and then when the chorus hits, you just get surrounded by walls of guitar all while the original soundstage still exists up front. I listened to music for probably 2 hours total, and I'd say 90% of the songs I played ranged from sounding incredible to really good. But there are some songs where it doesn't work and it sounds overly dark and muddy and generally unpleasant. Its hard to pinpoint exactly why this happens because I tried to pick songs that i thought would cause this problem and they didnt. And some songs I was suprised when I got that effect. (As an aside, might be time to get a Lokius.) But, overall, music is really cool, and I can absolutely see myself choosing to listen to surround instead of 2 channel for dedicated sessions. Not that this replaces 2 channel. Its just another option. Kind of like choosing between headphones or stereo. Now you get to choose between headphones, stereo, or surround.

Once I got everything balanced, I went back to try gaming again. And everything was solved. Any immersion-breaking or not being sure if what I was hearing matched what I was seeing, no longer existed with the channels balanced. And it makes sense. Similar to music, all the imaging from playing in 2 channel stereo still exists, but with the extra sense of ambience in the surroud channels. And there was one moment that stood out. A sniper from the other team missed me high and left from the front. And i heard that bullet track from the front left of my office to the back left. It was awesome.

Another long post from me, but I'll end with something I hope some of you can appreciate. At one point, I walked out of my office and I must have been smiling ear-to-ear and my wife asked me "What (are you grinning about)?" I told her "You know how I ripped out the surround from the office last month? Well this company I really like released this new thing... yada yada yada" And by the end of my explanation she could obviously sense my overwhelming satisfaction and gave me the most geniune "Well, I'm really happy for you, dear." that a wife could possibly give for something she absolutely couldn't care less about. So thank you, Jason, for bringing that kind of joy into my home.

I still have barely touched the headphone output, other than to verify that it works. Hope to dig into that this weekend.
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:08 PM Post #5 of 124
Figured I'd finish my initial impressions/review of the Syn. Last week, I was able to get the channels balanced to my liking and everything fell into place. Music sounded terrific, and I got much more clarity in the location of sounds while gaming. This weekend, I threw as much home theater content at it as I could, and I couldn't be more impressed.

The short, TLDR version: the other members of your household would never even consider asking if the sound was a discrete 5.1/7.1 mix or not. The surround sound you get from the Syn is fully immersive, engaging, and leaves nothing to be desired.

The first scene i sat down with this weekend is my favorite home theater test... the scene in War of the Worlds when the first machine emerges from the ground. The Syn handles it great. You might not be getting the precise location from some of the cracks in the ground as you do in the discrete mix, but it still very directional. Sounds are coming at you from all around. And that bass still rumbles just as hard as the .1 mix. Most impressive is there is a shot of Tom Cruise's face and you can tell by the sound that the mayhem is happening behind him. Its simply as immersive as can be.

Probably the most impressive scene was the final epic battle in Avengers: Endgame. Its pure chaos the entire time, and the Syn processes it all easily. Same for a couple scenes I tried from Game of Thrones. There is so much happening on screen, but the Syn is able to take that stereo signal and create extremely convincing surround channels with distinct direction and clarity. And this is the case with everything I tried. With music, it was only about a 90% success rate. With the movie scenes I tried, it was 100%.

After some of these epic scenes, I wanted to try some car chase scenes. I went with the frist race scene in Ready Player One, the freeway scene in The Matrix Reloaded, and the mini cooper scene from The Bourne Identity. In all 3 cases, I was so impressed with not only the sound from left and right, but also front and back. As cars zoom by, they track from front to back or back to front. Its pretty crazy how the math must work on the matrix logic for that to happen. Most memorably, in the Matrix Reloaded, there is a point where Morpheus gets flipped over backwards while fighting an agent on top of a semi. Its a slow motion shot, and the Syn had the flipping whoosh start in the front channels and clearly finish in the rear channels. I guess my main point is that its not just extra ambience you get with these scenes. You get actual sound effects from the surround channels.

I also wanted to try some "regular" tv, and I was equally impressed. I put on an episode of Succession, and thought you could argue the Syn processed surround was better than a 5.1 mix. There was some ambient sound that im sure wouldn't even have been mixed into the surround channels. And also, when they do the previous episode recap, its pretty cool how the background theme music comes through in the surround channels. You definitely don't get that with the regular mix.

I did give the headphone output a go this weekend as well. But to be honest, I'm simply not much of a headphone guy, and I don't feel comfortable going to much in depth here. I can say my gaming headphones sounded great. Just as good as they did using my Emotiva A100 headphone output. And my other headphones are HIFIMAN HE400i. I didn't particularly care for how they sounded in the A100, and still didn't care for them with the Syn headphone output. That's not the Syn's fault. The width control had a real affect. Increasing the width pushed the sound out and back, and decreasing the width pushed the sound forward and in. But again, I'm not comfortable trying to talk through the utility of being able to do so. Im guessing different headphones have different soundstages, and this helps dial in the soundstage to where you want it. I was unable to test that.

I really couldn't love this thing more. And just one more reason why I feel like the Syn was designed specifically for me.... my gaming headphones are Audio Technica AD-700x and I have a Mod Mic permanently attached to it. I have a braided cable sleeve containing both cables with heat shrink wrap and everything. But, the microphone cable is about 6 inches shorter than the headphone cable. This has annoyed me for the last 8 years, until now. The design decision to put the microphone input where it is in relation to the headphone input couldn't be more perfect for me. My cable now hangs straight down from the mircophone input, and my headphone jack perfectly stretches across the front of the syn into its home. Just an amazing coincidence.
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:45 PM Post #6 of 124
Spent another night with the Syn. The first night was more about the inital set-up and exploration of its capabilities. Last night, I was able to focus on fine tuning the channel balance and shaping. And wow, after getting this thing dialed in, all my open questions from the first night have been answered. What an experience.

Its kind of hard to explain the process of getting the channels properly balanced. The best I can say is it reminds me of getting a subwoofer properly matched to a 2-channel system. You spend all this time tweaking the crossover by fractions of a Hz and barely moving the volume dial up and down until all of a sudden, it locks in, and you know you've got it right. Pretty similar experience geting all the channels from the Syn balanced, but even then, this analogy breaks down because you know what a properly tuned subwoofer is supposed to sound like. No peaks or gaps in the response, and when you get it right, you really can't hear it until you turn of the sub off, and then you realize how much it was adding to the music. With the Syn, there really isn't a playbook for how its supposed to sound. You just keep tweaking settings until it seems right. And then you try the next song, and it still seems right. And then another, and another. It still sounds good, and you don't even notice it anymore. Until, you turn off the surround channels and realize how much it is adding to the music. Its really, really cool.

And just to try to paint a better picture of what music sounds like through the Syn, it is NOT anything like "All Channel Stereo" like you might find on most AVRs. You're not getting the same sounds pounded into your ears from all directions like the garbage compactor in Star Wars. Instead, the soundstage and imaging from the main 2 channels still exists just like it would without the surround channels. The center image is locked in a bit more and the surround channels are more of an ambient enhancer to the soundstage rather than something you're actively trying to listen to. This results in something that creates a sense of expansiveness in some tracks to others where you are completly enveloped in the wall of sound. My favorite song so far has been Deftones Change (In the House of Flies). The song intro gives that airy sense of expanse and then when the chorus hits, you just get surrounded by walls of guitar all while the original soundstage still exists up front. I listened to music for probably 2 hours total, and I'd say 90% of the songs I played ranged from sounding incredible to really good. But there are some songs where it doesn't work and it sounds overly dark and muddy and generally unpleasant. Its hard to pinpoint exactly why this happens because I tried to pick songs that i thought would cause this problem and they didnt. And some songs I was suprised when I got that effect. (As an aside, might be time to get a Lokius.) But, overall, music is really cool, and I can absolutely see myself choosing to listen to surround instead of 2 channel for dedicated sessions. Not that this replaces 2 channel. Its just another option. Kind of like choosing between headphones or stereo. Now you get to choose between headphones, stereo, or surround.

Once I got everything balanced, I went back to try gaming again. And everything was solved. Any immersion-breaking or not being sure if what I was hearing matched what I was seeing, no longer existed with the channels balanced. And it makes sense. Similar to music, all the imaging from playing in 2 channel stereo still exists, but with the extra sense of ambience in the surroud channels. And there was one moment that stood out. A sniper from the other team missed me high and left from the front. And i heard that bullet track from the front left of my office to the back left. It was awesome.

Another long post from me, but I'll end with something I hope some of you can appreciate. At one point, I walked out of my office and I must have been smiling ear-to-ear and my wife asked me "What (are you grinning about)?" I told her "You know how I ripped out the surround from the office last month? Well this company I really like released this new thing... yada yada yada" And by the end of my explanation she could obviously sense my overwhelming satisfaction and gave me the most geniune "Well, I'm really happy for you, dear." that a wife could possibly give for something she absolutely couldn't care less about. So thank you, Jason, for bringing that kind of joy into my home.

I still have barely touched the headphone output, other than to verify that it works. Hope to dig into that this weekend.
Thanx for staring this thread, I’m vary Syn curious but not quite ready to push the buy now button.
Use is small bedroom movie screen.

Thinking powered speakers just for ease. Somone mentioned a good powered speaker on the Shiit thread as used but I found one can be puchersed new via Amozine as a single (sorry big thumbs small phone) but I don’t recall the brand.

Wondering how the Syn would play as a three front speaker set up?
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 4:58 PM Post #7 of 124
Wondering how the Syn would play as a three front speaker set up?

I think it would play just fine. You'd be ignoring the surround output, obviously. But taking advantage of every other feature of the Syn. The two main adjustable components are the width and presence control which only affect the three front channels anyways. And you'd get the added clarity from the dialogue in using a center channel.

In this use case, you're essentially comparing a Syn to a sound bar. And the choice is the simplicity of the sound bar vs the customization of the Syn. Being able to keep the same surround processing through speaker changes and upgrades means you'd be able to dial in the exact sound and size of the soundstage that you want.
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 9:08 PM Post #8 of 124
@Jason Stoddard
Congrats on the Syn. I wanted an AVR from Schiit. I asked and you poopooed all over HDMI, Dolby..., a thousand licenses necessary, and the need to become a software company. You were right. Instead, you come up with this. A brilliant innovation, with a continued ship focus on delivering value to your customers, with grace and humility. Can't wait to get mine to replace my A/V Receiver.

One question about how you are thinking about remote control integration.
- I have a TV, with two HDMI inputs, an Apple TV and a Xbox: So I need that TV remote to switch inputs
- I have an Apple TV, and I need that remote to switch apps and channels
- I buy a Syn, and I need that remote to control the volume

I assume eArc is of no use, as HDMI based.

Can the Syn remote be programmed to control all three boxes (TV, Apple TV, and Syn)?
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 10:33 PM Post #9 of 124
Another question:
What kind of non-HDMI output does the TV need to have to drive the Syne audio?

I think someone has already found their screen only outputs HDMI?

Thanx

M. Paul
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 10:50 PM Post #10 of 124
Another question:
What kind of non-HDMI output does the TV need to have to drive the Syne audio?

I think someone has already found their screen only outputs HDMI?

Thanx

M. Paul
The TV only needs an optical digital output to connect to Syn.
 
Apr 11, 2023 at 11:55 PM Post #11 of 124
If your TV does not have optical, you can get an HDMI switcher with optical out - I have one for my BluRay player so I can use my outboard dac
 
Apr 12, 2023 at 12:57 AM Post #12 of 124
If your TV does not have optical, you can get an HDMI switcher with optical out - I have one for my BluRay player so I can use my outboard dac
Thanx Guys. About a week before the Syn launch the Boss says to me, it’s time to ditch the dodgy projector/laptop combo in our bedroom and get a big flatscreen. Not saying it’s going to be any easier or seamless though…
 
Apr 12, 2023 at 9:56 AM Post #13 of 124
I think it would play just fine. You'd be ignoring the surround output, obviously. But taking advantage of every other feature of the Syn. The two main adjustable components are the width and presence control which only affect the three front channels anyways. And you'd get the added clarity from the dialogue in using a center channel.

In this use case, you're essentially comparing a Syn to a sound bar. And the choice is the simplicity of the sound bar vs the customization of the Syn. Being able to keep the same surround processing through speaker changes and upgrades means you'd be able to dial in the exact sound and size of the soundstage that you want.
Paul Klipsch experimented and recommended three front speakers. Frank Sinatra listened with three front speakers, although he may have used custom mixed tapes. Hafler recommended two rear ambience speakers. I’ve done these experiments and both add something. I can’t claim they’re always better. What I like about Syn is that you have built in controls and can add each of these together or separately with a lot of additional level controls. I think a serious sound enthusiast would want to try both of these. And a serious sound enthusiast likely already has the extra amps and speakers, Syn makes the setup easy. You might not choose to use all of these channels forever, but I’d be surprised that anyone would have no interest in exploring these methods.
 
Apr 13, 2023 at 8:24 PM Post #14 of 124
Nice write up added to the schiit website reviews for Syn. Congrats @bweiss711
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top