Step above mid fi
Feb 9, 2013 at 7:26 AM Post #46 of 126
Quote:
 
Objective2/ODAC is fully capable to drive LCD-2 to their full potential, you can even read up full details on nwavguy's blog (use search button, he even talked about current with LCD-2).
 
If you look about high-end professional amps like Fostex HP-A8, DAC1/DAC2, O2 etc., none of those output 10W or so... Why? Because it's overkill and you are only getting distortion with overdriving your headphones. Actually, O2/ODAC specs are very similar to both HP-A8 and DAC1/DAC2... It's a SPECTACULAR piece of gear.
 
EDIT: Not to say that the version with 1/4 headphone out and better internal connections is even better...

I'm well aware of his blog. I'm also well aware of his disappearance. So....
 
You can express your opinion that the LCD-2 out of the O2 can go no further. I will simply disagree.
 
The Magni/Modi is a cheaper and better alternative, IMO. And there are far more amps out there that outclass the Objective's SQ, again IMO.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 7:34 AM Post #47 of 126
Quote:
I'm well aware of his blog. I'm also well aware of his disappearance. So....
 
You can express your opinion that the LCD-2 out of the O2 can go no further. I will simply disagree.
 
The Magni/Modi is a cheaper and better alternative, IMO. And there are far more amps out there that outclass the Objective's SQ, again IMO.

 
So... what?
 
Outclasses in what exactly? In what to your ears sounds better? Or in fidelity (less distortion, less coloration)? I am talking about true-to-the-recording sound, not about "better sounding" amp. Good amplifier do not have a "sound" in my view and must offer low-gain option in order to prevent distortion or even damage of your low impedance/highly efficient headphones.
 
I would gladly see specs where you find Magni or Modi superior to O2 or ODAC...
 
IMO
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 7:51 AM Post #48 of 126
Quote:
 
So... what?
 
Outclasses in what exactly? In what to your ears sounds better? Or in fidelity (less distortion, less coloration)? I am talking about true-to-the-recording sound, not about "better sounding" amp. Good amplifier do not have a "sound" in my view and must offer low-gain option in order to prevent distortion or even damage of your low impedance/highly efficient headphones.
 
I would gladly see specs where you find Magni or Modi superior to O2 or ODAC...
 
IMO

I will say this, the Magni is almost better across the board.
 
O2 is sterile, Magni is more warm sounding. Soundstage is more wide, better detailing,
more defined instrument separation. but with slightly less bass than O2.
 
Both amps are great for their price pool, the O2 is just to harsh comparatively to
Magni being warmer and more inviting, IMO.
 
Both amps fall short of many. Again IMO and IME.
 
 
But let's be clear you're more objective, while I'm more subjective.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 8:22 AM Post #49 of 126
Quote:
I will say this, the Magni is almost better across the board.
 
O2 is sterile, Magni is more warm sounding. Soundstage is more wide, better detailing,
more defined instrument separation. but with slightly less bass than O2.
 
Both amps are great for their price pool, the O2 is just to harsh comparatively to
Magni being warmer and more inviting, IMO.
 
Both amps fall short of many. Again IMO and IME.
 
 
But let's be clear you're more objective, while I'm more subjective.

 
Thanks for your impressions... I think some will find them useful.
 
To my ears, O2 sounds pretty neutral and this is confirmed to my ears with LCD-2 rev2 since they together create a very balanced combo. It does not have a flaw - bass is flat and detailed (but not overemphasised), mids are neutral, voices are full but not sibilant at all (this could be with using aftermarket cables with emphasised highs = 99% of cases in my evidence) and treble is exactly where it should be (except the peak around 10khz which is not painful but emphasised drums a bit more than ideal at times). I think the combination of those two is VERY good... I am sure some may find it sound boring. Yes, if you want FUN sound with heavy soundstage etc., buy aftermarket cables and brighter amps = you're done.
 
I am very suspicious about those claims that one cable/DAC/amplifier outclasses another one... I've tried different quality adaptors and interconnects and realise that even though the differences exists, it was all about different frequency response. Therefore I saved myself tons of money and stayed with what the manufacturer intended - the stock cable and no 1/4 - 1/8 adaptors. I've also tried different amps like Burson HA-160, Icon HD, Fiio E9/E11 and even heard some vintage speaker amps... They do sound different but guess if someone tuned the FR of them to be as neutral as of O2 (and test them with the same DAC), the difference would be near-to-zero to human's ears (maybe except that speaker amp that distorted too much).
 
I suspect that all that better sound you are talking with magni is connected with slightly different frequency response... The feeling of separation and better soundstage is connected with treble - I hope you are aware. Using cable with emphasised certain high frequencies will give you that - the feeling of more airy sound etc. But it's not a technically better device, just different. Measurements do not show lower distortion or noise with Magni/Modi, as far as I know. As O2 certainly have enough power to driver LCD-2 even at the worst cases, underpowering cannot be the cause here. As I said before, ultra high-end professional amps/DAC do have very similar specs to O2/ODAC. Enthusiastic audiophile amplifiers/DACs do not.
 
Still, I have no problem with someone prefering Magni, Modi... Our preferences differ. That's how it should be to keep this hobby interesting.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 8:34 AM Post #50 of 126
Wow! Thanks so much for that write up! Now I'm definetly leaning towards to the o2 however I am still wondering if I should save my expenses and get the higher end (schiit LYR) first instead. Do you guys think that eventually upgrading from the o2 is necessary or will I be good with the o2 for a long time? I ask this because after my amp purchase I will not get more audio gear for atleast a year or two.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 8:56 AM Post #52 of 126
Quote:
Wow! Thanks so much for that write up! Now I'm definetly leaning towards to the o2 however I am still wondering if I should save my expenses and get the higher end (schiit LYR) first instead. Do you guys think that eventually upgrading from the o2 is necessary or will I be good with the o2 for a long time? I ask this because after my amp purchase I will not get more audio gear for atleast a year or two.

 
If think you need to realise what you want - I think Lyr along with ODAC (or even Bifrost) could be very nice if you want to experience TUBE sound. However, if you want neutral solid state amplifier, I would definitely suggest O2 more.
 
I do not think that O2 is the most "high fidelity" device ever... But it really is VERY near to HP-A8/DAC1/DAC2 specs so if you want a neutral amp and do not have money to afford Benchmark DAC2, I would definitely buy O2 and ODAC (I definitely suggest buying desktop version with 1/4 output since those adaptors do really affect the sound negatively... so aftermarket cables do IME!). I would suggest to pair neutral amplifiers/DACs only with near-to-neutral headphones, of course. Pair O2 with LCD-2, HE-500, HD650 or similar and you will get balanced performance without a major flaw.
 
However, for more "involved" or "audiophile" sound, you should maybe get Lyr instead... I do personally enjoy O2, ODAC and LCD-2 rev2 very much and do not find it sterile or boring at all but I can surely imagine there are people who do. It just sound flat to my ears, without emphasised bass or treble, without sense of glare with vocals, exaggerated soundstage width etc....
 
To complete the story (even though I am getting subjective here), you should have a look at the player you use as well... Especially into xxhighend or jplay. Both in hibernate mode offer a lot more evident improvements than you can get with whatever cable you try (yes, as I said, cables only change frequency response due to different capacitance etc.). I've "tuned" the sound in jplay a bit and the neutrality I am getting is even more perfect. You can play whatever song you want and you always get all instruments exactly where they should be. IMHO
 
(I still struggle to read up more on software-induced jitter and those things... But it seems there really must be something about it)
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 9:13 AM Post #53 of 126
Honestly, coming from the denons and the current sound of the audeze I think that the neutral sound is not for me. I want a warm lush sound and I think that a tube amp is for me. Will the schiit LYR the best amp with tubes or is there a better maybe cheaper option?
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM Post #54 of 126
Quote:
Honestly, coming from the denons and the current sound of the audeze I think that the neutral sound is not for me. I want a warm lush sound and I think that a tube amp is for me. Will the schiit LYR the best amp with tubes or is there a better maybe cheaper option?

 
Not sure... I've seen several times a statement that Lyr is the best sounding amp bellow 600USD or so (Mjolnir should be even better) for LCD-2. I think you could do a search for some comparisons here but as far as I know, you cannot go wrong with Lyr if using LCD-2.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 9:39 AM Post #55 of 126
Quote:
 
Thanks for your impressions... I think some will find them useful.
 
To my ears, O2 sounds pretty neutral and this is confirmed to my ears with LCD-2 rev2 since they together create a very balanced combo. It does not have a flaw - bass is flat and detailed (but not overemphasised), mids are neutral, voices are full but not sibilant at all (this could be with using aftermarket cables with emphasised highs = 99% of cases in my evidence) and treble is exactly where it should be (except the peak around 10khz which is not painful but emphasised drums a bit more than ideal at times). I think the combination of those two is VERY good... I am sure some may find it sound boring. Yes, if you want FUN sound with heavy soundstage etc., buy aftermarket cables and brighter amps = you're done.
 
I am very suspicious about those claims that one cable/DAC/amplifier outclasses another one... I've tried different quality adaptors and interconnects and realise that even though the differences exists, it was all about different frequency response. Therefore I saved myself tons of money and stayed with what the manufacturer intended - the stock cable and no 1/4 - 1/8 adaptors. I've also tried different amps like Burson HA-160, Icon HD, Fiio E9/E11 and even heard some vintage speaker amps... They do sound different but guess if someone tuned the FR of them to be as neutral as of O2 (and test them with the same DAC), the difference would be near-to-zero to human's ears (maybe except that speaker amp that distorted too much).
 
I suspect that all that better sound you are talking with magni is connected with slightly different frequency response... The feeling of separation and better soundstage is connected with treble - I hope you are aware. Using cable with emphasised certain high frequencies will give you that - the feeling of more airy sound etc. But it's not a technically better device, just different. Measurements do not show lower distortion or noise with Magni/Modi, as far as I know. As O2 certainly have enough power to driver LCD-2 even at the worst cases, underpowering cannot be the cause here. As I said before, ultra high-end professional amps/DAC do have very similar specs to O2/ODAC. Enthusiastic audiophile amplifiers/DACs do not.
 
Still, I have no problem with someone prefering Magni, Modi... Our preferences differ. That's how it should be to keep this hobby interesting.

I'm not sure why you brought up different adapters or interconnects. Those are separate issues from amps.
 
The O2 is surely a nice amp, it met its designs goals, no doubt. However just because the O2 measures well, etc
doesn't make it musical, involving, or even enjoyable. 
 
The Magni has a different implementation from O2, so of course there's going to be differences. Likewise, many, many other amps will be different.
 
IMO, the O2 is too sharp or sparky in the treble region, and doesn't read as neutral to me. I'm also of the opinion that the O2
lacks overall control in areas of bass comparatively to other amps.
 
I would recommend you try to spend more time with as much gear as you possibly can get ahold of. I've heard a lot of amps
and while the O2 is better than many more expensive out there, it also simply falls short of many other amps.
 
And from the beginning I never said the O2 couldn't drive the LCD-2, I just said it's not a world-beater, and in fact, would be the bottleneck,again comparatively to other available amps.
 
While the O2 is fine if your budget allows it, there are "better" matches and that's all I simply suggested.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 10:13 AM Post #57 of 126
They are similar. But that doesn't mean the differences aren't noticeable.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 10:27 AM Post #58 of 126
Quote:
I thought the Magni and O2 were suppose to sound pretty similar? http://www.head-fi.org/t/642401/comparison-and-review-magni-modi-vs-o2-odac

 
The least informative review I have ever seen... I guess enough for generic head-fier (no offence).
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 10:55 AM Post #59 of 126
Quote:
I'm not sure why you brought up different adapters or interconnects. Those are separate issues from amps.

 
Because judging the amp when using adapters or cables different from stock is not completely valid.
 
Quote:
IMO, the O2 is too sharp or sparky in the treble region, and doesn't read as neutral to me. I'm also of the opinion that the O2
lacks overall control in areas of bass comparatively to other amps.

 
I hope you realise that not only nwavguy but even innerfidelity measured the amp with 99% same outcome = the amp is exactly and objectively neutral (at least to human ears). If it sounds bright, sparky, sibilant or whatever, it's your audio files, headphones, aftermarket cables or DAC, not O2.
 
Quote:
 
While the O2 is fine if your budget allows it, there are "better" matches and that's all I simply suggested.

 
I can understand that there are more than several amps that could create more enjoyable combo with rev2... O2 is not about that so it's definitely not an ultimate solution for everyone.
 
Feb 9, 2013 at 11:05 AM Post #60 of 126
Quote:
 
Because judging the amp when using adapters or cables different from stock is not completely valid.
 
 
I hope you realise that not only nwavguy but even innerfidelity measured the amp with 99% same outcome = the amp is exactly and objectively neutral (at least to human ears). If it sounds bright, sparky, sibilant or whatever, it's your audio files, headphones, aftermarket cables or DAC, not O2.
 
 
I can understand that there are more than several amps that could create more enjoyable combo with rev2... O2 is not about that so it's definitely not an ultimate solution for everyone.

That is entirely debatable. Do cable's objectively make a difference or not hasn't been proven or disproven either way. Same thing w/burn in, etc.
 
And now we need establish this isn't Sound Science. 
 

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