[ziggz]

My curiosity has been piqued for a couple of years for the HPA4. The closest dealer is about 4 hours away, so nothing is convenient. Probably even tougher to audition one in Canada, I'd imagine. Many guys/reviewers state the Topping A90 is about identical for a fraction of the price. Tough to believe, but I've heard that from numerous people.

My signature shows the luck I've had with topping and similar, so unfortunately if this was true, I personally would not go that route. I am sure I am in the minority there, and is probably bad luck/bad seller on Amazon, but is enough for me to ignore those brands from now on.

As far as auditioning, I believe my only route is ordering, and then returning, if I do not want to keep it, but will lose out on the hundreds of dollars for shipping.

 

[phthora]

Also, side note- your "all of my gear" link was spectacular!

Thanks! I'll be adding a section for tubes next, now that I have a few interesting ones.

It's great that you have both the RME and the HPA4. I was really researching the HPA4 heavily, but oddly enough, some owners talked me out of it. I mentioned that I'd be using my computer lossless audio files -> RME ADI2-> HPA4. They said the sound would not be any different than me plugging my headphones into my RME ADI2. They said the sound I'd get from the HPA4 would be an exact reproduction of the RME ADI2. I think I'm hearing you say that may not be the case and the HPA4 may have some of its own character. Very interesting, because I had been wanting at TOTL solid state amp and this was at the top of my list. Also, side note- your "all of my gear" link was spectacular!

I'd still probably try to talk you into the RME, but yeah, they're not exactly the same. The most basic way to put it is: the 2/4 is a little richer, the HPA4 is a little clearer. On many things, the difference is not significant, but where there is a difference the HPA4 always performs technically better and at best the 2/4 is great, but not quite as great. It's not that the HPA4 adds any character to the sound really, it's just so uniformly, unerringly, consistently transparent and controlled where other amps occasionally falter or shift the sound just a bit here and there with certain headphones/music/frequencies/volumes/etc. To me, that's the perfect reference to suit my fairly broad range of headphones. If I had to pick one headphone to go with, the HPA4 might not show any real improvement over the 2/4. Then it would really come down to which particular headphone that was.

My curiosity has been piqued for a couple of years for the HPA4. The closest dealer is about 4 hours away, so nothing is convenient. Probably even tougher to audition one in Canada, I'd imagine. Many guys/reviewers state the Topping A90 is about identical for a fraction of the price. Tough to believe, but I've heard that from numerous people.

Nah. Not to my ears anyway. For basically the same reasons as I mentioned above. (Plus, 5-year warranty on that Benchmark and stellar customer service!) I've in-home auditioned several potential replacements for the HPA4, and I would sell it in a heartbeat if I found something as good for cheaper. So far, I have not. Honestly, I didn't even think the A90 reached the level of the RME ADI-2.

 

[skhan007]

My signature shows the luck I've had with topping and similar, so unfortunately if this was true, I personally would not go that route. I am sure I am in the minority there, and is probably bad luck/bad seller on Amazon, but is enough for me to ignore those brands from now on.

As far as auditioning, I believe my only route is ordering, and then returning, if I do not want to keep it, but will lose out on the hundreds of dollars for shipping.

Oh wow, I just read your sig and see what you went through. You know, the Headamp GSX Mini is a solid option and I've heard nothing but praise. Their headquarters is very close to me, so maybe I should do a drive out there and hear their amps.

 

[ziggz]

Oh wow, I just read your sig and see what you went through. You know, the Headamp GSX Mini is a solid option and I've heard nothing but praise. Their headquarters is very close to me, so maybe I should do a drive out there and hear their amps.

If you can audition it that easily, I would absolutely give it a go. It is still my favorite, and I only sold it as I was offered what I paid for it, so no loss to me. Still miss it TBH.

 

[skhan007]

Thanks! I'll be adding a section for tubes next, now that I have a few interesting ones.



I'd still probably try to talk you into the RME, but yeah, they're not exactly the same. The most basic way to put it is: the 2/4 is a little richer, the HPA4 is a little clearer. On many things, the difference is not significant, but where there is a difference the HPA4 always performs technically better and at best the 2/4 is great, but not quite as great. It's not that the HPA4 adds any character to the sound really, it's just so uniformly, unerringly, consistently transparent and controlled where other amps occasionally falter or shift the sound just a bit here and there with certain headphones/music/frequencies/volumes/etc. To me, that's the perfect reference to suit my fairly broad range of headphones. If I had to pick one headphone to go with, the HPA4 might not show any real improvement over the 2/4. Then it would really come down to which particular headphone that was.



Nah. Not to my ears anyway. For basically the same reasons as I mentioned above. (Plus, 5-year warranty on that Benchmark and stellar customer service!) I've in-home auditioned several potential replacements for the HPA4, and I would sell it in a heartbeat if I found something as good for cheaper. So far, I have not. Honestly, I didn't even think the A90 reached the level of the RME ADI-2.

Thanks for this feedback! OK, it's back on my list, top position! I can see the HPA4 being a good addition, as I just got these Abyss 1266 headphones and the RME ADI2 DAC barely can power them. The headphones need 1.5 watts/8.7 volts and the RME delivers (in high-power mode) 1.5 watts/10 volts. Cutting it close! The WA22 does a great job. I believe the WA22 is 2 watts per channel? I think that's what I read.

 

[phthora]

Thanks for this feedback! OK, it's back on my list, top position! I can see the HPA4 being a good addition, as I just got these Abyss 1266 headphones and the RME ADI2 DAC barely can power them. The headphones need 1.5 watts/8.7 volts and the RME delivers (in high-power mode) 1.5 watts/10 volts. Cutting it close! The WA22 does a great job. I believe the WA22 is 2 watts per channel? I think that's what I read.

Hard to say if the HPA4 would drive that well, given listening levels and all that, but MacedonianHero paired those phones with that amp so maybe search that thread for his take.

Good to know that the WA22 handles the 1266 though! I read about some people driving the Tungsten with the WA22 and I was a little skeptical.

 

[skhan007]

Hard to say if the HPA4 would drive that well, given listening levels and all that, but MacedonianHero paired those phones with that amp so maybe search that thread for his take.

Good to know that the WA22 handles the 1266 though! I read about some people driving the Tungsten with the WA22 and I was a little skeptical.

I just looked up the Tungsten specs: 78dB sensitivity and 155 Ohms. If my math is right, we need 15 watts and 49.5 v to power those. That's insane.

 

[VanHai]

Oh wow, I just read your sig and see what you went through. You know, the Headamp GSX Mini is a solid option and I've heard nothing but praise. Their headquarters is very close to me, so maybe I should do a drive out there and hear their amps.

You already have WA22, then do not bother with GSX Mini. I owned and sold it, can not compare with WA22. Buy yourself a used Drop THX 799 for $150.00-$200.00 and use WA22 as a preamp, people do not like THX because it's cold and sterile but with WA22 as preamp it sounds warmer and awesome .

 

[ziggz]

I just looked up the Tungsten specs: 78dB sensitivity and 155 Ohms. If my math is right, we need 15 watts and 49.5 v to power those. That's insane.

I calculated that when I first saw them, almost S$%^ my pants

 

[skhan007]

I calculated that when I first saw them, almost S$%^ my pants

I know, me too! I think this new offering can power the Tungsten:

https://www.headamp.com/products/headamp-cfa3

 

[ziggz]

To be fair

I know, me too! I think this new offering can power the Tungsten:

https://www.headamp.com/products/headamp-cfa3

, 5 watts will still get it to 110db I believe, which would make you deaf anyways lol

 

[Promee]

I’ve been doing some looking into the topic of the Tungsten myself. First, here is a good resource for calculating this stuff with published data for lots of headphones and amps:

https://headphoneresource.com/

If you want pretty much ideal sound, from what I’m understanding about this stuff, you want to get an amp that can do your ideal average volume with 20 dB of additional headroom so it doesn’t clip on transients. Clipping on tube amps will be way less destructive than clipping on solid state, which will produce very obvious distortion. According to the above site (from Torq on the headphones.com forum) if your ideal average listening volume is 88.9 dB or less (which is just inside the hearing damage level), you should be good to go with 20 dB of additional headroom for clean transients.

I believe this chart is based on the published specs below. They are from the manual included with the second gen WA22, but I believe the power ratings they give in the manual are from the first gen WA22 (so it may be underestimating power a bit) - the manual appears to have been updated last in 2011... Anyway:

So, the 7236 is more powerful in the WA22 (same should be roughly true for the 5998 and 421a).

P = V^2 / R or 0.700 = V^2 / 600
solving for V —> V = 20.494

The other values in that table apply to 6080 tubes. @120 Ohm we have 13.86 V; @300 Ohm —> 18.17 which doesn’t really tell us a ton about how it will behave with the higher power tubes, except to say that it probably will be lower than 20.494, as it appears that the voltage goes up as the impedance goes up at least to 300 Ohm, unless there is an inflection point we don’t know about between 300 and 600 Ohm, and we can’t directly compare those values here because they are with different tubes.

I actually wrote to Woo about it, and they told me they haven’t had a chance to hear a Tungsten, so they don’t know how it will do with the WA22, but they suggested I buy an Abyss Diana from them instead. This was a bit surprising and annoying, as the specs are published and I don’t think it would be that hard for them to give us an idea, especially since the creator of the Tungsten has suggested using the WA5-LE as the reference amp for demoing the Tungsten according to one of the reviews on YouTube, but I digress.

I have read that 20V is ideal for listening at fairly loud volumes, so we might be coming in a hair below that, but it should be fairly close to ideal, and with the mitigation of clipping offered by tubes, I think we will be happy with the results as long as we are using higher power tubes - 5998 / 421a / 7236 - especially if you prefer listening at sane levels.

I highly recommend checking out the thread on this over at the headphones.com forum:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/modhouse-tungsten-measurements-official-discussion/22645/72

Thanks for watching my TED Talk

 

[Promee]

So, guys I just wanted to let everyone know before they see it in the Woo owners thread - I got a WA2 today, and I’m absolutely swooning over it. Maybe in the next couple of days the dust will settle and I’ll get a better idea of how these are both going to fit into my collection / life, but for the moment, I have to say, it is surprisingly different from the WA22, and I thought the WA22 would be superior in many ways, but I am no longer so sure. Anyways, we’ll see how it looks as the newness fades a bit, but for now, wow, color me impressed. I feel a little sorry for the V222, it is good, but it’s really not fair to make it compete with all the tubey goodness now flanking it from both sides...

 

[skhan007]

I’ve been doing some looking into the topic of the Tungsten myself. First, here is a good resource for calculating this stuff with published data for lots of headphones and amps:

https://headphoneresource.com/

If you want pretty much ideal sound, from what I’m understanding about this stuff, you want to get an amp that can do your ideal average volume with 20 dB of additional headroom so it doesn’t clip on transients. Clipping on tube amps will be way less destructive than clipping on solid state, which will produce very obvious distortion. According to the above site (from Torq on the headphones.com forum) if your ideal average listening volume is 88.9 dB or less (which is just inside the hearing damage level), you should be good to go with 20 dB of additional headroom for clean transients.



I believe this chart is based on the published specs below. They are from the manual included with the second gen WA22, but I believe the power ratings they give in the manual are from the first gen WA22 (so it may be underestimating power a bit) - the manual appears to have been updated last in 2011... Anyway:



So, the 7236 is more powerful in the WA22 (same should be roughly true for the 5998 and 421a).

P = V^2 / R or 0.700 = V^2 / 600
solving for V —> V = 20.494

The other values in that table apply to 6080 tubes. @120 Ohm we have 13.86 V; @300 Ohm —> 18.17 which doesn’t really tell us a ton about how it will behave with the higher power tubes, except to say that it probably will be lower than 20.494, as it appears that the voltage goes up as the impedance goes up at least to 300 Ohm, unless there is an inflection point we don’t know about between 300 and 600 Ohm, and we can’t directly compare those values here because they are with different tubes.

I actually wrote to Woo about it, and they told me they haven’t had a chance to hear a Tungsten, so they don’t know how it will do with the WA22, but they suggested I buy an Abyss Diana from them instead. This was a bit surprising and annoying, as the specs are published and I don’t think it would be that hard for them to give us an idea, especially since the creator of the Tungsten has suggested using the WA5-LE as the reference amp for demoing the Tungsten according to one of the reviews on YouTube, but I digress.

I have read that 20V is ideal for listening at fairly loud volumes, so we might be coming in a hair below that, but it should be fairly close to ideal, and with the mitigation of clipping offered by tubes, I think we will be happy with the results as long as we are using higher power tubes - 5998 / 421a / 7236 - especially if you prefer listening at sane levels.

I highly recommend checking out the thread on this over at the headphones.com forum:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/modhouse-tungsten-measurements-official-discussion/22645/72

Thanks for watching my TED Talk

Excellent, I’m going to study this. It’s safe to say that we have adequate wattage and voltage to drive just about anything. I’m sure there might be an exception, but for the most part, the WA22 delivers.

 

[phthora]

Night shots of my new glass!