[Venture Guy]

  Curious what the difference is between the Jot and my Asgard 2. Wonder if the Jot is class A as well. 

I heard the Jot at the recent the Schiit Show introduction a few months ago. It sounded great to me. The amplifier topology is something that Jason invented that he thinks betters that used in the higher end amps; in keeping with the Schiit approach, it is a zero feedback design (very important). So, IMHO the amp section is TOTL. The DAC sounded good, but I haven't spent time with the Gumby or the Rag, so I can't comment. It sounded as good as my Ayre Acoustics DAC though, and that is saying a lot...

 

[Rynsin]

  I just purchased a PMx2 a few weeks ago. I have the Schiit Asgard 2 with the Schiit Modi 1 (the old usb dac). I am not too crazy about my combination. What would anyone recommend changing first? The dac or the amp?

 
 

  I know this is going to cost me a Schiit load of money, but I want to do it right and I also do not want to do it over again and again. 
 
I am building a Hauptwerk organ system and I know how important the Dac is to reproducing the true sound of the pipe organ though it's software. The Hauptwerk software is pure, but it all depends on the quality of the dac to reproduce that same pure sound. The next purchase will be two fold. I want to buy a real good dac for headphones and then move this dac over to the organ project. So basically I am using this as a test bed for the huge organ. I have already berried over 20K into the organ and it is not even close to being finished. The PMx2 was bought for the feedback loop of the organ project.
 
Thanks all !!!

 
 
In terms of "what to upgrade first" from the point of view of listening to music, I think most people will agree that generally the amp will have a bigger impact on the sound then the DAC. Standard rule of thumb is: the farther away it is from your ear, the less impact it'll have on the sound (headphone -> dac -> amp -> source). Obviously two major exceptions to this is the quality of the recording, which is arguably far more important than anything else, and that I think most people will admit that cables don't have nearly as big an effect as the rule would indicate (e.g. the headphone cable being more important than the amp).
 
From this point of view, you can't go wrong with a DACMini CX as both an amp and a DAC or just as a DAC. The GeekOut v2 is also pretty good (and quite cheap!), outperforming many much more expensive combinations (Alex demoed the PMx2 to me using one of these).
 
However, if you plan on using this DAC later with some specialized software, you should find out what kind of assumptions the software is making. Does it output DSD or standard PCM? If it is PCM, does it use linear interpolation? Quadratic? Soft roll off, hard roll off? Matching the assumptions made by the software to the DAC itself will be far more important than just throwing money into the DAC.
 
Best of luck!

 

[Mike C]

I'm considering the PMx2 and appreciate any comments.
Sorry if this is a bit long but there's a lot of info that may be useful.
 
My tastes are for acoustic music of many types; classical,  jazz (accessible), folk, some better pop. In particular I love good female vocals including classical, and in particular singers such as Sophie Milman, Tierney Sutton, Karrin Allyson, Loreena McKennitt. I also like the unusual and quirky.
Tonality is most important to me, but I appreciate musicality and dynamics (essential for things like the Rite of Spring etc).
 
My headphone system uses the excellent Gryphon Scorpio CD player as the only source; a peach of a player.
I have two good valve headphone amps; a heavily reworked Elekit TU882 which is very good (I must post about it); and a Nobsound NS-06E which uses 6SN7's paralleled. This was OK, but with a change of driver valve, reconfig of the driver stage, removal of NFB and caps upgrades it became really good, somewhat better than the Elekit.
I'm also making a valve headphone amp of my own design with some similarity to the Nobsound with 6SN7's.
 
I use AKG K812 phones in this system and they sound really good; I've tried them in other systems and the sound was poor with solid state amp.  In my system I'm almost satisfied. So why change?
 
My main system is a good sounding SET valve system. My own DIY, and I'd say it's not quite the usual SET sound as it has speed, attack, dynamics as well as valve SET sweetness; anyway it sounds gorgeous for the music I like, from LP or CD. I attend several concerts (not rock or pop!) and the system compares very well. Tonality is excellent, vocals just superb, a very natural sound.
 
The headphone system (with a slightly better CD player than the main system) does not quite match the main system or live music in terms of tonality or vocals, being a touch cold and perhaps slightly thin sounding. I'm being picky here, as the K812's are much better than anything else I've tried including HD580, some good Audio Technica, K712.
 
So I'm hoping to find something that's close to the good points of the K812 while adding better tonality, better presentation of vocals, a more 'persuasive' effect, if possible a bit more natural, and perhaps better sound quality generally. I don't feel happy spending the cost of Utopias but I won't totally rule this out.
 
Looking around, it seemed the Ether Flows might fit the bill so I did a lot of reading up; in doing do I found ray-dude's excellent post 'Adventures of 2 Channel Guy Diving Head First into the Head-Fi Deep End', and that's where I first found out about the PMX2. Ray's choices of music look great, his appreciation of music seems a lot like mine.
Above all, the conclusion 'If you focus on tonal balance .... get the PMx2' made me look into these very carefully. I have naturally read a lot about them here and elsewhere.
 
I tend to think that I'd love either the Ether Flow or the PMx2; as Ray suggests, I'm sure they are both fantastic products.
 
As I'm in the UK it's not easy to audition these though I think I could get to try the Ethers when supply is better; but I'm not good at evaluating hifi by a short audition in the shop (actually I'm *lousy* at doing so, there are good reasons for this).
 
I have noted the odd adverse comment (there's always something said), eg Tyll I think didn't like the lack of extreme top end compared to the HD800; but friends with very similar tastes to me have heard the HD800 and definitely disliked them, Tyll loves them .... so it's a matter of taste here and it seems my taste may be for the PMx2.
 
One good thing is that I don't need a phone to massage the sound - the source and amp are good enough not to need this.
 
I'm close to placing an order for the PMx2.
 
Any comments welcomed, thanks!
 
Mike in the UK
... with the superb 'Embraceable Lisa' playing as I type.

 

[ray-dude]

Mike, if it is helpful to your process, I ended up getting a pair of PMx2's (my co-conspirator Kenny did as well).  The version we received are an upgraded version from Darin's that we did the extensive audition on.  I can confidently say that Alex has fully addressed any of the little nits I had with Darin's pair: noticably deeper extension up high and down low, noticibly "cleaner"/"clearer" sounding, etc.
 
Our big San Diego headphone fest is tomorrow, so we had a pre-gathering tonight at my place (audition the Nobel IEM line, try a bunch of different DACs, revisit various headphones, drink beer and eat good food, etc.)  Darin brought over his Utopia's and his PMx2s, and Kenny and I had our newer versions.  We had a bunch of different DACs (Jotunheim, Mojo, Bifrost, custom) and amps as well.
 
There is a very clear upgrade between the older PMx2s and the newer ones.  All those things in my review that I highlighted as the "near" part in "near ideal"?  Alex has addressed them. At this point, I would consider them equivalent to superior to the Utopias, and both those are clearly superior to any of the other cans we auditioned.  At this point, I can confidently say that if I were offered a pair of Utopias or PMx2s, I would take the PMx2s and be delighted (in fact, if you own Utopias, don't listen to PMx2s...once you hear the differences, you won't be able to unhear them)
 
I consider the Ether Flows fun and I'm a fan of what Dan and team are doing, but I suspect they are a generation or two from having something that is as balanced, sophisticated, and elegant as the PMx2s.  That being said, the Ether house sound is very opinionated and purposeful.  If you have affinity for that house sound, that's awesome.  What the PMx2s bring to the table is an affinity to a ground truth.  Happily living with them now, I'm finding that affinity to ground truth rewarding and comforting, and also very illuminating.
 
If tonal balance and clarity are a priority for you, I have heard nothing better.  Happy to share experiences I've had and help triangulate to common references.
 
Ray

 

[Allanmarcus]

@FFRESPONSE is there an upgrade path from the old tuning to the new tuning?

 

[Mike C]

   
"... balanced, sophisticated, and elegant as the PMx2s."
 
 
"If tonal balance and clarity are a priority for you, I have heard nothing better."  

 
Thanks Ray for your most helpful post. I've highlighted here the comments of yours that seem most relevant to what I'm looking for. I'm optimistic.
 
I've already contacted Alex and given him some info; I'm interested in his opinion!
 
Regards,
Mike

 

[FFRESPONSE]

  @FFRESPONSE is there an upgrade path from the old tuning to the new tuning?

At this point I have no idea and am yet to try redoing my own reference unit. Not even sure if there is a point in doing so. Just gathering feedback from new users now. One thing is for sure, in terms of work and time it's going to be a big deal.

 

[harpo1]

I confirmed with Alex that myself and one other individual were the first to get the new version back in March.  All I can say is I haven't looked for another set of headphones since.  As someone else mentioned the tonal balance and clarity are unmatched.  Anyone looking to purchase these do yourself and your wallet a favor and do it.  I spent thousands on other headphones and that has stopped since Alex graced me with these gems.
 
When recommending these to other headfiers they always reply but they're modded and the resale value sucks on modded headphones.  Well people you won't sell them.  Hell how many have you seen in the classifieds?  I have never seen any for sale, that should tell you something.

 

[Allanmarcus]

I stupidly didn't listen to Alex's new version when I had a chance at a recent meet. I even brought my PMx2s to compare, but I got distracted by all sorts of other stuff, including some new stuff Alex was working on.
 
Any comparisons or measurements between the original tuning and the new tuning? 

 

[ray-dude]

  I stupidly didn't listen to Alex's new version when I had a chance at a recent meet. I even brought my PMx2s to compare, but I got distracted by all sorts of other stuff, including some new stuff Alex was working on.
 
Any comparisons or measurements between the original tuning and the new tuning? 

 
I've listened to both extensively (to say the least), but I only had limited time to do an A/B between them directly.  Here were my comments on the original tuning:

 

This is a world class set of headphones.  Hard for me to find any sonic faults with them without being “that guy” (“Gee Alex, this is a miraculous transformation of an already TOTL set of cans to ‘best I’ve ever heard’ level, but could you just squeeze a couple more Hertz bass extension, and just a bit better imaging and soundstage?”).  Sonically, the tonal balance is so near to ideal that you’re foolish if you focus on the “near” part instead of the “ideal” part. Coupled with Oppo build quality and aesthetics/comfort, and Alex has a winner.
 

 
With the new tuning, there is noticbly more extension on the low end and a bit more on the high end (most impressive actually...not hearing any slop or distortion at the low end, which is remarkable given how much more Alex was able to squeeze from the design)  The tonal signature is much more natural than what I remember when I was doing naive digital EQ with the older tuning PMx2's.
 
Aside from tonal range, overall I found the tone a bit more clear (for lack of better word to describe it) and perhaps a bit more precise (again, for lack of better word to describe it).  The improvement wasn't hard to hear.
 
I did not notice any imaging or soundstage changes, but again, I did not do the multi-hour critical A/B eval to really dial in the differences.
 
When comparing new tunings with Utopias (direct A/B), the new PMx2's kicked Utopia behind at the low end (not even close), and almost matched the speed and precision in the highs I was hearing in the Utopias.  I suspect the PMx2s will be less fatiguing for extended listening, and perhaps has a more natural profile at the high end, but I would need to convince Darin to give up his Utopias for a couple weeks to do a proper eval

 

[Allanmarcus]

@ray-dude  thanks. I thought the Utopia's sounded pretty much perfect, and the PMx2 (original) a little flat in comparison. The PMx2 still sounds excellent, but the utopia sounded clearer, and with more sparkle. That might simply be frequency response and I can play with EQ on the PMx2 to match them more to my tastes. 
 
I'll just have to make it a higher priority to listen to the new tuning. 

 

[ray-dude]

@ray-dude
  thanks. I thought the Utopia's sounded pretty much perfect, and the PMx2 (original) a little flat in comparison. The PMx2 still sounds excellent, but the utopia sounded clearer, and with more sparkle. That might simply be frequency response and I can play with EQ on the PMx2 to match them more to my tastes. 

I'll just have to make it a higher priority to listen to the new tuning. 

Sparkle is actually a good word for the utopias. The PMx2s don't have that, more of a smoother natural extension. What isn't clear to me is how that sparkle wears over time?

If you're out San Diego way, drop a note. Happy to get together and play them off each other.

 

[youurayy]

Okay, I'm 3 weeks in. I can safely say that I have finally arrived at the destination as far as static-installation/wired headphone reproduction goes. My system:
 
- Audio Zenith PMx2
- Nobsound NS-03D + Psvane EL34 (+ headphone adapter)
- Lampizator Amber 2 w/ DSD512 superclocked
- QED Reference Audio 40 custom RCA cables
- special fat power cables
 
(not using the RCA attenuators anymore, PMx2 can handle the amp fine)

 

[Colgin]

Can anybody in this thread comment on soundstage of PMx2 versus the following: Audeze LCD series; Ether open (original); Senn HD 6x0.  While they are all different, to me, those headphones have comparable soundstage (at least in terms of width), sounding reasonably open but not as wide as any of HD 800(S) or AKG 812 or K/Q7-- series. I have the stock PM-2 (considering the PMx2 upgrade) and for all its virtues in stock form, have basically stopped listening to them because they sound so closed compared to my Senn HD 600 and 650 and AKG K7xx. How much of an increase in soundstage does the PMx2 represent over stock and is it reasonable comparable with aforementioned cans.

 

[zlatan]

Can anyone comment on the longevity of the pads on these? They look amazing as a reference headphone, but I'm on the fence as the pads are non-replaceable. I use my headphones everyday and these will be an expensive purchase...shipping them back to the US everytime I need new pads doesn't sound the best option.