[michael2v]

I get all that, and yes tubes are a subjective taste, and there isn't one that best them all. That being said the wording in their description saying, "Unlike most tubes available today that are New Old Stock (NOS), ours are brand new, hand-selected, and rigorously-tested to meet our strict quality standards. By bypassing the unpredictable quality of NOS. . .", doesn't add up, and it seems like they are trying to pull one over on people new to tubes. Most if not all my NOS tubes are bullet proof and built to last, and have been rigorously tested as well. Heck some of my NOS tubes are rated for 40,000 hours. . .Is there any long term testing done on these new tubes, or is it just speculation?

Also, it says that their tubes are, "A substantial upgrade from standard NOS tubes", and what does that even mean. Is there a "standard NOS tube"? I will go ahead and answer that question with a big no.

Seems very enticing for someone new to tubes, but as an old tube guy it's gonna take more than fancy wording and a few reviews to convince me they are "better". . .

I'll leave this right here...

(Definitely not pointing fingers, I'm as guilty of this as anyone!)

 

[geoffalter11]

I get all that, and yes tubes are a subjective taste, and there isn't one that best them all. That being said the wording in their description saying, "Unlike most tubes available today that are New Old Stock (NOS), ours are brand new, hand-selected, and rigorously-tested to meet our strict quality standards. By bypassing the unpredictable quality of NOS. . .", doesn't add up, and it seems like they are trying to pull one over on people new to tubes. Most if not all my NOS tubes are bullet proof and built to last, and have been rigorously tested as well. Heck some of my NOS tubes are rated for 40,000 hours. . .Is there any long term testing done on these new tubes, or is it just speculation?

Also, it says that their tubes are, "A substantial upgrade from standard NOS tubes", and what does that even mean. Is there a "standard NOS tube"? I will go ahead and answer that question with a big no.

Seems very enticing for someone new to tubes, but as an old tube guy it's gonna take more than fancy wording and a few reviews to convince me they are "better". . .

I echo these sentiments. NOS tubes are not one size take all. They difffer in quality, and type and range a huge span of time. The 6SN7 class of tubes has a thread with thousands of pages because it is such a diverse and iconic tube with so many options and variants. I've yet to hear a better 6SN7 than a wartime tube built for the military in brand new NOS spec with less than 5% tolerances. They are out there, and they are less than 2 of these. Tough sell for me as well.

 

[JamieMcC]

Probably the demand for such new tube offerings is going to be driven by amp manufacturers themselves to be included when they sell a new amp. They will purchase in baulk with a substantial discount from the retail price the public sees.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Probably the demand for such new tube offerings is going to be driven by amp manufacturers themselves to be included when they sell a new amp. They will purchase in baulk with a substantial discount from the retail price the public sees.

Which can only be a Benefit to the customer if amp manufacturers can ship their amps with actually good stock tubes.

 

[geoffalter11]

For those who have an Icon HP8, this would be a good amp to test a matched pair. I was constantly trying new 6SN7s on that amp.

 

[Apos Audio]

Hi everyone,

This is Kunal from Apos and I want to address some of the points raised here.

First and foremost, we hear you loud and clear regarding the warranty period. We stand solidly behind our product and the quality of the tubes. We've pushed our team internally to update the warranty policy on the Reserve Tubes, and it's pretty much a done deal that we will extend the warranty period substantially.

We'll make an official announcement later this month once all the preparation work is done. The updated coverage will also extend to all Reserve Tubes purchases made before this announcement.

Regarding the question about how we define NOS, I want to clarify a little. We are not trying to belittle the sound of NOS tubes. Rather we are trying to make a point that, on average, community members are not always sure about what they are going to get when they buy NOS tubes. Some of the tubes have sat in storage for decades and their lifespan is questionable. They usually don’t come with return policies or warranties. We are trying to make a statement about how we think the service we are providing is better (hence we absolutely agree with the sentiment of increasing the warranty period on the Reserve Tubes). With our tubes, we’ve overseen the manufacturing process ourselves. Our own sound engineers have listened, graded, and matched the tubes, and can attest to their quality. Part of the service we are offering is also to increase the range of the tube offerings for the community with our standards in mind. We are always listening and taking notes on recommendations that community members are providing us. In fact, after the 12AU7 release, the 6SN7 was the most requested tube, and that is what we brought to the community.

I am tagging a few people here who have asked questions regarding the two points above. @flador @Wes S @Unseen Aura @JamieMcC @tpstinson @geoffalter11

P.S.

@Wes S - Thank you for your feedback and points you’ve raised. You have a lot of experience with tubes and we’d love for you to review the Apos Reserve 6SN7 Tube and compare and contrast them for the community here. One of our team members will reach out to you via DM to see if this'll be of interest to you. Thank you!

 

[geoffalter11]

Hi everyone,

This is Kunal from Apos and I want to address some of the points raised here.

First and foremost, we hear you loud and clear regarding the warranty period. We stand solidly behind our product and the quality of the tubes. We've pushed our team internally to update the warranty policy on the Reserve Tubes, and it's pretty much a done deal that we will extend the warranty period substantially.

We'll make an official announcement later this month once all the preparation work is done. The updated coverage will also extend to all Reserve Tubes purchases made before this announcement.

Regarding the question about how we define NOS, I want to clarify a little. We are not trying to belittle the sound of NOS tubes. Rather we are trying to make a point that, on average, community members are not always sure about what they are going to get when they buy NOS tubes. Some of the tubes have sat in storage for decades and their lifespan is questionable. They usually don’t come with return policies or warranties. We are trying to make a statement about how we think the service we are providing is better (hence we absolutely agree with the sentiment of increasing the warranty period on the Reserve Tubes). With our tubes, we’ve overseen the manufacturing process ourselves. Our own sound engineers have listened, graded, and matched the tubes, and can attest to their quality. Part of the service we are offering is also to increase the range of the tube offerings for the community with our standards in mind. We are always listening and taking notes on recommendations that community members are providing us. In fact, after the 12AU7 release, the 6SN7 was the most requested tube, and that is what we brought to the community.

I am tagging a few people here who have asked questions regarding the two points above. @flador @Wes S @Unseen Aura @JamieMcC @tpstinson @geoffalter11

P.S.

@Wes S - Thank you for your feedback and points you’ve raised. You have a lot of experience with tubes and we’d love for you to review the Apos Reserve 6SN7 Tube and compare and contrast them for the community here. One of our team members will reach out to you via DM to see if this'll be of interest to you. Thank you!

Thank you for your complete transparency. It is true that when you buy NOS tubes on the open market they don't come with warranties and there is a level of risk. There must also be a level of trust with the seller which I have found takes years to create so you can buy the right tubes. Not an easy process.

You picked well in @Wes S to objectively provide feedback on your new 6SN7 tubes. They are lookers...

 

[iFi audio]

Hi everyone,

This is Kunal from Apos and I want to address some of the points raised here.

First and foremost, we hear you loud and clear regarding the warranty period. We stand solidly behind our product and the quality of the tubes. We've pushed our team internally to update the warranty policy on the Reserve Tubes, and it's pretty much a done deal that we will extend the warranty period substantially.

We'll make an official announcement later this month once all the preparation work is done. The updated coverage will also extend to all Reserve Tubes purchases made before this announcement.

Regarding the question about how we define NOS, I want to clarify a little. We are not trying to belittle the sound of NOS tubes. Rather we are trying to make a point that, on average, community members are not always sure about what they are going to get when they buy NOS tubes. Some of the tubes have sat in storage for decades and their lifespan is questionable. They usually don’t come with return policies or warranties. We are trying to make a statement about how we think the service we are providing is better (hence we absolutely agree with the sentiment of increasing the warranty period on the Reserve Tubes). With our tubes, we’ve overseen the manufacturing process ourselves. Our own sound engineers have listened, graded, and matched the tubes, and can attest to their quality. Part of the service we are offering is also to increase the range of the tube offerings for the community with our standards in mind. We are always listening and taking notes on recommendations that community members are providing us. In fact, after the 12AU7 release, the 6SN7 was the most requested tube, and that is what we brought to the community.

I am tagging a few people here who have asked questions regarding the two points above. @flador @Wes S @Unseen Aura @JamieMcC @tpstinson @geoffalter11

P.S.

@Wes S - Thank you for your feedback and points you’ve raised. You have a lot of experience with tubes and we’d love for you to review the Apos Reserve 6SN7 Tube and compare and contrast them for the community here. One of our team members will reach out to you via DM to see if this'll be of interest to you. Thank you!

Thanks for this, I hope this is a huge benefit to you guys as the New Tubes you are continuing to put out will only further the Tube lover's journey, and keep tubes relevant in the future!

Imagine 20 years from now someone finds an unused box of Apos Ray tubes!

Cheers!!

 

[Wes S]

Hi everyone,

This is Kunal from Apos and I want to address some of the points raised here.

First and foremost, we hear you loud and clear regarding the warranty period. We stand solidly behind our product and the quality of the tubes. We've pushed our team internally to update the warranty policy on the Reserve Tubes, and it's pretty much a done deal that we will extend the warranty period substantially.

We'll make an official announcement later this month once all the preparation work is done. The updated coverage will also extend to all Reserve Tubes purchases made before this announcement.

Regarding the question about how we define NOS, I want to clarify a little. We are not trying to belittle the sound of NOS tubes. Rather we are trying to make a point that, on average, community members are not always sure about what they are going to get when they buy NOS tubes. Some of the tubes have sat in storage for decades and their lifespan is questionable. They usually don’t come with return policies or warranties. We are trying to make a statement about how we think the service we are providing is better (hence we absolutely agree with the sentiment of increasing the warranty period on the Reserve Tubes). With our tubes, we’ve overseen the manufacturing process ourselves. Our own sound engineers have listened, graded, and matched the tubes, and can attest to their quality. Part of the service we are offering is also to increase the range of the tube offerings for the community with our standards in mind. We are always listening and taking notes on recommendations that community members are providing us. In fact, after the 12AU7 release, the 6SN7 was the most requested tube, and that is what we brought to the community.

I am tagging a few people here who have asked questions regarding the two points above. @flador @Wes S @Unseen Aura @JamieMcC @tpstinson @geoffalter11

P.S.

@Wes S - Thank you for your feedback and points you’ve raised. You have a lot of experience with tubes and we’d love for you to review the Apos Reserve 6SN7 Tube and compare and contrast them for the community here. One of our team members will reach out to you via DM to see if this'll be of interest to you. Thank you!

Thanks for the detailed response, and for the opportunity! I look forward to reviewing the 6SN7 Reserve.

 

[Alenotta]

Thank you for your complete transparency. It is true that when you buy NOS tubes on the open market they don't come with warranties and there is a level of risk. There must also be a level of trust with the seller which I have found takes years to create so you can buy the right tubes. Not an easy process.

You picked well in @Wes S to objectively provide feedback on your new 6SN7 tubes. They are lookers...

I'll second that. @Wes S has great taste in tubes and an open mind. I've bought several tubes from him on here.

 

[kumar402]

Hello,

expect a Nos but modern sound, at least that's what I can say about the 6SN7 Ray Select from Apos Audio.
This tube has a lot of great, good features. I have not found anything negative about it.
In my review of the Select I wrote that it beats the Linlai Elite and some good Nos tubes.
Firstly, the bass range of the Linlai is a bit spongy, the second is Linlai plays a bit more neutral and has a slight depth in the upper end.
With the 6SN7 Ray Select, the bass range is nice and clean and firm, offering a slightly warmer sound.
I also wrote in Review that you shouldn't choose a combination that is too warm, otherwise it will start to mask, which is typical if you listen too warm.

As far as the 6SN7 Ray Reserve is concerned, I think you can expect something similar and perhaps you can immerse yourself even deeper in the music here.
What you should also consider here is that there can be structural changes between Select and Reserve.
Examples of this are black instead of grey plates, a different arrangement of the upper grille as well as plate shape and things like that,
A material selection can also be affected here - copper bars, for example.
Coated not coated.

It should be clear that this is reflected in the price.
In the end, quality tubes have their price.

The comparison between Nos "Holy Grail" vs New Stock.
Here's a question for you: what is Holy Grail supposed to be?
Again, this can be very subjective and is ultimately down to the judgement of the listener.
As a Feliks Euforia owner, I can say that I have tried various 6SN7s and Holy Grails too, but not everyone has to like them.
Personally, I have a hard time with the Brimar GTY where a pair can cost $1200 and can also pass for a CV1988.
Now I have strong reservations about the Euforia as far as the tube is concerned.
In my 2nd amplifier this tube strangely does a better job.
But is it really worth $1200? Not for me, I get many other good tubes for that.
Also for this amp I got an ECC35 Mullard (which passes as Holy Grail) very cheaply.
I asked the seller why he was selling them, they are new.
His answer was that he was not convinced by the Eddie Current Zana deus and preferred other less good tubes.
As you can see it's 50% subjectivity (your ears) & 50% amp thing (setup, amp typical things).
The latter we divide again by 50% because here Dac,speakers,headphones play into it,as well as various software like Roon,Audirvana ect and of course other certain synergies that are hardware related.
What you should understand here and what you should understand is amplifier design, as you can see with the Brimar Gty I mentioned I am not very happy with it on an OTL amplifier, but on a Tc amplifier I am.
Amplifiers also work very differently depending on the design.
Things like operating point of the tube, plate current, is only part of getting the tube to its optimum point. Here it has advantages as well as disadvantages like life cycle ect.
The choice of components in an amplifier is just as important as the transformer winding itself, the construction of the transformer and the choice of transformer material are just some of the other things that make a good amplifier.

Is your amplifier bad now?
Well, judge for yourself.
Personally, I think that commercial amplifiers do not reach their limits.
There are other reasons for this, such as longevity, competition on the market, for example, as well as costs in the procurement of materials, labour costs and manufacturing costs.
Very few people are prepared to wait 3 months for this.

These are things that also influence the life cycle of a tube, as I wrote above.
That's why you can't criticise the quality of the tubes here.
As I have already tested 12AU7 and 6SN7 Select, I can tell you that you don't need to worry here.
The quality is right here and compares favourably with other new stocks where there is still something to learn.

Apart from that, you will learn to understand how your tube amplifier works to get an optimal and satisfying result.
Things like what is the Mu gain of the tubes is something that is important, power output of the amplifier.
What combinations can you run with this amplifier in terms of driver/output tubes.
Rectifier tubes, if provided, can influence the amplifier, albeit subtly in most cases.

As far as the warranty of Apos Audio tubes is concerned, they can't guarantee absolute quality, but you should know that they do their best to offer you a tube that is made in America, regardless of where the tubes are manufactured.
And it's also a kind of trademark in that respect, at least that's how I feel.
3 months is actually a cycle where the tubes report failure.
However, I will tell you that 90% of the time these things are noticeable right at the beginning and in the first few hours.
I have already explained everything else above.
At this point I must also tell you that the human factor also plays a role, listen a lot, let the amplifier run unnecessarily.
Storage of the tubes can be bad, direct sunlight when not in use.

As far as Sophia Electric is concerned, I think it is a pity that it is not mentioned here that they offer different tubes that are categorised in ABC and also in price. Apart from that, you pay for an extended warranty yourself.
Otherwise, the warranty period is only 30 days.
And Apos Audio's offer of 3 months is very generous in comparison.

Why would someone use 6SN7 in Zana Deux ? It is designed for 6SL7

 

[Deleeh]

Why would someone use 6SN7 in Zana Deux ? It is designed for 6SL7

Ecc 35 are 6SL7 tube,ECC 35 are a european code.

 

[ThanatosVI]

First and foremost, we hear you loud and clear regarding the warranty period. We stand solidly behind our product and the quality of the tubes. We've pushed our team internally to update the warranty policy on the Reserve Tubes, and it's pretty much a done deal that we will extend the warranty period substantially.

I'm very happy to hear that

 

[pastorernie]

I bought the tube, a matched pair. Cost just short of $400. Received them in 5 days over the weekend. I own a Feliks Envy with PsVane WE300b plus power tubes. (Excellent tubes, BTW). My headphones are the wonderful ZMF Caldera. Well packaged. I took them out of the box and held them up to the stock PsVane 181s. I said to myself, these two are the same tube. Did the 6 hour burn-in. Maybe the design is the same, but they sound somewhat differently. The Apos tubes are several steps above stock. I listened to classical as usual. They are neutral, detailed, with an improved soundstage and imaging. The Envy with these 6sn7s sounds even more realistic. I do not want anyone to buy anything because of me. Who am I to go by? Make your own informed decision. My opinion is that the Apos 6sn7 is a fine tube and a great value.

 

[YungOmbat]

Beautiful! Congrats!

I know a certain Darkvoice 336SE that may be trying one of these out very Soon!

Cheers!!

i know a certain amp that you've made is impossible to change tubes on