[audio dilettante]

Well, i just picked up the PX8 from Amazon, will be here Wednesday.
can't wait to try them.

Amazing! I have a feeling you'll be a happy chappie.

 

[rosgr63]

In terms of the audio improvement on the PX8 from Bluetooth to USB C - it's minimal in my view. As a comparison, the Bathys improve significantly in DAC mode but on the PX8 it's barely noticeable to my ears.

Maybe my hypothesis that Bathys use a dedicated DAC could be correct??????
Congratulations with your decision enjoy your music, that's what is all about.

 

[Denkmal]

Maybe my hypothesis that Bathys use a dedicated DAC could be correct??????
Congratulations with your decision enjoy your music, that's what is all about.

Both Bathys and PX8 have ”dedicated” DACs. As have all wireless headphones.
Bathys DAC might be even better than the one in PX8, but there are also differences in codec implementation. For example, I find the difference between AAC and higher bitrate codecs to be smaller on PX8, probably due to a very good implementation of AAC. Also I think Bathys sound a bit congested on AAC and also not their best on standard APTX. Could be how their tuning make then scale better, or they are just not as good with all codecs.
Long story short - I rarely find the urge to plug in PX8, but Bathys are used with a cable quite frequently here…

 

[audio dilettante]

Both Bathys and PX8 have ”dedicated” DACs. As have all wireless headphones.
Bathys DAC might be even better than the one in PX8, but there are also differences in codec implementation. For example, I find the difference between AAC and higher bitrate codecs to be smaller on PX8, probably due to a very good implementation of AAC. Also I think Bathys sound a bit congested on AAC and also not their best on standard APTX. Could be how their tuning make then scale better, or they are just not as good with all codecs.
Long story short - I rarely find the urge to plug in PX8, but Bathys are used with a cable quite frequently here…

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment

 

[rosgr63]

Both Bathys and PX8 have ”dedicated” DACs. As have all wireless headphones.
Bathys DAC might be even better than the one in PX8, but there are also differences in codec implementation. For example, I find the difference between AAC and higher bitrate codecs to be smaller on PX8, probably due to a very good implementation of AAC. Also I think Bathys sound a bit congested on AAC and also not their best on standard APTX. Could be how their tuning make then scale better, or they are just not as good with all codecs.
Long story short - I rarely find the urge to plug in PX8, but Bathys are used with a cable quite frequently here…

Out of curiosity what resolutions do you get in DAC mode/connection from the Px8 and the Bathys?

 

[audio dilettante]

USB and aptX HD has fuller mids than adaptive and USB has the treble resolution from adaptive along with a bit more of everything. USB is noticeably better and the bluetooth codecs can sound a bit "hard" and "processed" compared to running full resolution over USB. Dynamics, sound stage and imaging also benefits quite a bit from USB. This applies even more to the Bathys than PX8, but both are limited by bluetooth. They do sound good over bluetooth as well and when travelling or in the office I mostly prefer the freedom of wireless, but if they were my only headphones then I would wire them up to my PC or one of my transports over USB at home.

When using USB I've mostly connected Bathys and PX8 to a PC with Roon through a USB hub. Running Bathys in DAC mode from an iphone is not close to the quality I get through my PC so my iphone is most likely doing a bit of processing on the way to the headphone (source material is the same bit for bit with either rips or purchased downloads of full CD quality or higher). It is also possible that both headphones lack isolation on the USB port and need a cleaner source than a phone to perform their best. PX8 wasn't close to what I get from my PC either when trying it with USB from my ipad, which can deliver the power that the PX8 wants. The sound just sounds muddier, with less clean transients when using the USB output from IOS devices compared to what I can get from a PC or dedicated transport on all DACs that I've tried including PX8 and Bathys.

Now you've said this I'm feeling like I'm getting more detail and separation when wired to my laptop when compared to my phone. Could be in my head of course!

 

[ricthaman]

Both Bathys and PX8 have ”dedicated” DACs. As have all wireless headphones.
Bathys DAC might be even better than the one in PX8, but there are also differences in codec implementation. For example, I find the difference between AAC and higher bitrate codecs to be smaller on PX8, probably due to a very good implementation of AAC. Also I think Bathys sound a bit congested on AAC and also not their best on standard APTX. Could be how their tuning make then scale better, or they are just not as good with all codecs.
Long story short - I rarely find the urge to plug in PX8, but Bathys are used with a cable quite frequently here…

Well, that is not necessarily true (unless you have info to confirm this).

As from FCC pictures it seems PX8 is using QCC5127 which has a built-in DAC on the Qualcomm SoC. This could be the DAC they’re using. Naturally, there could also be an external DAC on the board that is fed buy the Qualcomm SoC but I haven’t seen any confirmation for that online nor can I detect one on the FCC internal pictures.

As for the Bathys; I reached out to Focal and they confirmed a dedicated DAC is used but wouldn’t disclose which one.

That might explain the performance difference in DAC mode between them (I have heard both) and why Focal puts so much emphasis on it in their marketing.

 

[Denkmal]

Well, that is not necessarily true (unless you have info to confirm this).

As from FCC pictures it seems PX8 is using QCC5127 which has a built-in DAC on the Qualcomm SoC. This could be the DAC they’re using. Naturally, there could also be an external DAC on the board that is fed buy the Qualcomm SoC but I haven’t seen any confirmation for that online nor can I detect one on the FCC internal pictures.

As for the Bathys; I reached out to Focal and they confirmed a dedicated DAC is used but wouldn’t disclose which one.

That might explain the performance difference in DAC mode between them (I have heard both) and why Focal puts so much emphasis on it in their marketing.

Yeah I get your point. But, ok so wether the DAC is ”dedicated” or not is a little beside the point. Either it is built in on a larger chip or it is a separate chip, it is still a DAC made for the same purpose.
And you are right that PX8 has an integrated DAC. Why Focal wont share what DAC they are using is also well in line with their ”interesting” marketing of the magic ”DAC mode”…
As much as I like my Focals I wish they spent less time and money on pseudo marketing and LED lights and more on build and materials.

 

[audio dilettante]

Yeah I get your point. But, ok so wether the DAC is ”dedicated” or not is a little beside the point. Either it is built in on a larger chip or it is a separate chip, it is still a DAC made for the same purpose.
And you are right that PX8 has an integrated DAC. Why Focal wont share what DAC they are using is also well in line with their ”interesting” marketing of the magic ”DAC mode”…
As much as I like my Focals I wish they spent less time and money on pseudo marketing and LED lights and more on build and materials.

I for one dig the lights! The mysterious DAC mode may be a marketing ploy but it sounds noticeably better on the Bathys so it clearly works.

 

[ricthaman]

Yeah I get your point. But, ok so wether the DAC is ”dedicated” or not is a little beside the point. Either it is built in on a larger chip or it is a separate chip, it is still a DAC made for the same purpose.
And you are right that PX8 has an integrated DAC. Why Focal wont share what DAC they are using is also well in line with their ”interesting” marketing of the magic ”DAC mode”…
As much as I like my Focals I wish they spent less time and money on pseudo marketing and LED lights and more on build and materials.

Thanks for your input, I think we're on the same page
I wonder, apart from the marketing mumbojumbo, whether having a seperate DAC chip has advantages? Perhaps it is easier to implement it better or tweak the paramaters as opposed to the SoC DAC?

And yes, the build quality could be a tad better when compared to the competition in this price range. Oh well, we can't have it all

 

[evhvis]

I for one dig the lights! The mysterious DAC mode may be a marketing ploy but it sounds noticeably better on the Bathys so it clearly works.

DAC mode turns off the charging and afaik the bluetooth and receives data over USB, but other than that the audio path should be about the same. The big thing about DAC-mode is much higher compatibility with phones due to little to no powerdraw. There are a lot of devices that you cannot connect the PX8 to over USB and the PX8 will drain your phone battery if it is allowed to connect over USB.

 

[evhvis]

Thanks for your input, I think we're on the same page
I wonder, apart from the marketing mumbojumbo, whether having a seperate DAC chip has advantages? Perhaps it is easier to implement it better or tweak the paramaters as opposed to the SoC DAC?

And yes, the build quality could be a tad better when compared to the competition in this price range. Oh well, we can't have it all

Most likely harder to implement as the SoC is a pre-made solution that essentially works out of the box. A separate DAC chip means more engineering and higher cost, which is probably why B&W stuck with the SoC and used it on both the PX7 S2 and PX8 (volume discounts and most of the engineering work is shared between the products). The advantage of a separate DAC chip is that you can use a higher quality DAC and since most SoC are made to be low cost the one that they get from the Qualcom chipset is most likely mediocre in quality.

 

[rosgr63]

Most likely harder to implement as the SoC is a pre-made solution that essentially works out of the box. A separate DAC chip means more engineering and higher cost, which is probably why B&W stuck with the SoC and used it on both the PX7 S2 and PX8 (volume discounts and most of the engineering work is shared between the products). The advantage of a separate DAC chip is that you can use a higher quality DAC and since most SoC are made to be low cost the one that they get from the Qualcom chipset is most likely mediocre in quality.

Thanks for you valuable comments
I couldn't agree more!

How do you think the 3.5mm analogue input on the Px8 and Bathys is implemented?

 

[evhvis]

Thanks for you valuable comments
I couldn't agree more!

How do you think the 3.5mm analogue input on the Px8 and Bathys is implemented?

Most likely Buffer->ADC->SoC->DAC->OpAmp with DAC being on the SoC for PX8. They both need the signal into the digital domain as they have no true passive mode and always offer EQ (meaning DSP at all times). My guess is that they always use DSP corrections as well to get around limitations of the ear-cup size.

 

[rosgr63]

Most likely Buffer->ADC->SoC->DAC->OpAmp with DAC being on the SoC for PX8. They both need the signal into the digital domain as they have no true passive mode and always offer EQ (meaning DSP at all times). My guess is that they always use DSP corrections as well to get around limitations of the ear-cup size.

Thank you!
Maybe that's why the Bathys analogue input is nothing special as it doesn't use the dedicated/separate DAC.