[Tada]

Pad rolling on Fostex/Denon headphones were mostly reported by @zolkis so maybe he can chime in. If you search for his posts in the D7200 and D9200 threads you can find a wealth of information. I believe there were a couple of folks that performed the mods and they experienced similar improvements. According to zolkis' testing, the D7200 + modded/Stax pads sounds better than the D9200 with stock pads. Pad rolling on the D9200 is also a consideration, but if you are sensitive to treble/sibilance like me, it might be more cost effective to start with a D7200 and purchase Stax 009 pads.

Here's one of his posts btw...

I have had all these. Don't rely on others' opinions too much, since you don't know the all different biases people have. I have personally found the D5000 too dark & boomy though smooth, the D7000 too dark-velvety (though very smooth). It will depend on your preferred genres and personal taste. I can understand why people love the D7000. You need to figure this out for yourself and there is no better way than trying them, either in shops or by owning them - long-term experiences being the best: that's the price to get to know yourself and the headphones in question. If you can't do that, enjoy what you have and spend time listening to music rather than contemplating alternatives.

On first hearing, I thought the TX00 (ebony) were better than the D7200 and the TH900 better yet.
I can imagine either the TH900 or D7000 would be top choice for people with similar preference.
After spending some time I started to appreciate the D7200 more, and also discover the annoying parts more.
If I didn't have modding experience I would have sold them and would have never unlocked the potential they have.
I like when instruments sound with natural tonality and adapt other genres to this priority. So I will always have a bias towards the modded D7200 and the stock D9200.
Other people are suckers for sheer physical bass impact with spacious sound (partially me too) and would prefer the (modded) TH900.
As for resolving fine details, nothing can remotely touch my e-stats (though I can hear all details with the D7200, just not as nicely integrating in the music as I know would be possible).
Nevertheless, for what I care in music listening, the D7200 doesn't lose much because it gets the harmonic structure right and therefore sounds natural.

My ranking would be something like this (instrumental + classical + most other genres):
modded D7200 > D9200 > modded TH900 > HD820 > Z1R > TH900 > D7200 > TX00 > D7000 > D5000 > D2000.

If I put on a different hat (reggae/electronica/metal/synth + some weight for sound stage), the ranking would be like this:
modded TH900 > modded D7200 > D9200 > HD820 > TH900 > Z1R > TX00 > D7200 > D7000 > D5000 > D2000.

With another different hat (most weight on sound stage but my other priorities stay) I would say:
HD820 > Z1R > modded D7200 >= modded TH900 > D9200 > D7000 > TX00 > D7200 > D5000 > D2000.

You see the variance and invariance: that is totally subjective and related to my preferences which may have nothing in common with yours.
Out of this, one could deduce that either the modded D7200 or the stock D9200 are my recommendations for the general public; the modded TH900 and HD820 (and Z1R) would get some people crazy and would not please others.

When you take price into account, from all these closed-headphone options I (must stress that it's personal) don't see much reason to pour money in anything else than a D7200 and a pair of Stax 009 pads (or replacement D7200 pads), doing some trivial mods and by this covering nearly all bases. Otherwise wait 2 years and get a used D9200.
I know people who drew that line at the D5200 and are happy (less problems than with the stock D7200, but less potential as well IMHO).

 

[chrisr34000]

@chrisr34000 @dlelikov
Can you please tell me from which source/streamer are you feeding the EF400 with the connected Denons?
I am further burning in the EF400 and made an observation.
I've been using my Ifi Zen Stream as a source which has been told before to cut the volume by 50% and I thought I compensated that by setting the Zen Stream's hardware volume manually to 100%
Doing that I ve been using similar volume wheel positions as you ve mentioned before.
However now trying my IPad as a source it seems the EF400 hardware volume level is controlled by the IPads volume buttons and setting it to 100% I can hardly get over the channel imbalance Position at around 7 o'clock in low gain!
I am now using digital headroom in Roon to have a bit more of freedom for the volume wheel.
That's similar to my experience with the Ifi Diablo which I was returning afterwards...
Of course I could also just reduce the EF400 DAC volume by turning the IPad down but I suppose the DAC is supposed to run at full throttle usually?

One note as to mention something positive.
The holografy with the EF400 is eery even with the Denons which is something I am not used to with no other sources before and makes me feel as if I am listening to open backs.
Stage is spreading to the sides and background notes are discernible behind my ears depending on the recording.
Especially female vocals are captivating but at the current state of DAC-AMP Burn-in (maybe around 24 hours) upper mids can be a bit boarderline too much.
Bass is organic but natural, that's something I have not been used to as I know the Denons to be more thumping on other Delta Sigma sources but also on my big Holo Audio -Ferrum combo - here I'd wish more amount...

Edit: thinking more about the lack of bass I am wondering if it's related to the relatively high PO impedances of that amp.
3.5mm SE > 18 ohm
6.4mm SE > 5.7 ohm
4.4 balanced > 10.3 ohm
XLR balanced > 9.85 ohm
Rule of 8 cannot be applied here.

I am using a desktop computer connected via USB with the EF400.

 

[zolkis]

Anything special about these? Or is the 7200+Stax pads combo something that's known to work well? Just curious

The Stax 009 and 007 pads go well with a lot of headphones. But they are the best when modded (described in the Stax pad mods thread), which mod mainly consists of cutting off the white ring from the internal foam. If one prefers thicker pads, the Stax 007 pads are slightly thicker and the size fits the D7200 and D9200 better. Otherwise adding patches of similar foam inside the ear pad shells is also fine, though one will hear sonic differences even for 1 gram more (or less) foam inside the pads.

In the case of the D9200, in a recent post I mentioned the best pads are its own modded pads. The mod consists of trimming the internal foam ~30% off its mass - on how exactly, look back in this or the D7200 thread, less than a few weeks old posts. However, the modded Stax pads work wonderfully with the D9200, even better than on the D7200. Also, a certain type of Chinese pads work very well, too (but require the same mod). Manufacturers put too much foam in the ear pad shells IMHO.

The modded Denon pads also work best for the D7200, but again the modded Stax pads work wonderfully.

What concerns non-modded stock ear pads, the recommendation is still the Stax pads. They have larger internal opening, good geometry and very good internal acoustic foam (which is not a memory foam).

Aftermarket pads usually focus on comfort and convenience, not the sound. Some manufacturers do optimize their pads, such as Focal and Sony, but others could be optimized quite much.

I tried a lot of cables as well with the D9200, some costing as much as the headphones themselves, and my findings have been quite consistent. They were all bad, mostly, with a few exceptions. There is a strong preference for thick stranded (0.3-0.4 mm per strand) soft-pulled double cotton covered copper cables, for instance from wires.co.uk, but the current offer is different, I don't find those cables any more. They were cheap and sound clearly better than even Toxic silver cables, cryo-treated oiled-cotton covered copper etc. (check out the cables from Hificollective.co.uk, Audiophonics.fr, etc.). I must note the stock D7200 cables are comparatively quite good for the price, and even the D9200 cables are pretty good, though the D7200 cables match better the D9200. Forget thin stranded UP-OCC cables from Ali, especially silver plated copper, all of them were a disappointment. Your experience might differ, and I am fine with that.

 

[rieku321]

After demoing a bunch of headphones the past two weeks (Focal Clear OG, TH900mk2, LCD-X, MM-500, Meze 109 Pro, Focal Clear Mg, Edition XS, HE6SEv2, D7200); the D9200s are the only ones that really impressed me. I am hoping that I can pick up a pair second hand, I just missed the biggest bargain in the classified section by a day...

If anyone is selling a pair in good condition, please PM me!

 

[PeteDzi]

I wonder if anyone can help me. I own LCD-X 2021 and a HE6SEv2. I like both of these, but I wanted to expand my small collection.
I was wondering whether AH-D9200 would be a useful addition?
I would like to have a phone with even better bass impact then I currently get, but without sacrificing clarity and other technical capabilities.
I am particularly interested in opinions of those who own or heard both the D9200 and LCD-X and/or HE6se
Another phone I was considering was fostex th900.
I listen to all genres of music, although more rock/pop/edm than classical.

 

[godmax]

I wonder if anyone can help me. I own LCD-X 2021 and a HE6SEv2. I like both of these, but I wanted to expand my small collection.
I was wondering whether AH-D9200 would be a useful addition?
I would like to have a phone with even better bass impact then I currently get, but without sacrificing clarity and other technical capabilities.
I am particularly interested in opinions of those who own or heard both the D9200 and LCD-X and/or HE6se
Another phone I was considering was fostex th900.
I listen to all genres of music, although more rock/pop/edm than classical.

You already got two very good headphones with above average bass impact. Even I have not heard the LCD-X yet, I do own the LCD-XC 2021 along with the D9200 and the HE6SEv2. I would say the D9200 has the clarity on LCD-XC level with the typical bass of a dynamic headphone with similar impact (but much easier to drive the Audeze or Hifiman).

 

[521282]

I had the 9200 and the xc 2021. I would say you get more of a musical/fun experience with the 9200, but I also found with eq, the bass of the xc's was probably my favourite out of everything I have heard.

 

[PeteDzi]

I had the 9200 and the xc 2021. I would say you get more of a musical/fun experience with the 9200, but I also found with eq, the bass of the xc's was probably my favourite out of everything I have heard.

That's interesting. I have the open back LCD-X, and I do EQ it, both to add bass, and also to fill in the recessed upper mids (I don't think the lcd-xc suffers from that problem, but I haven't heard them). I would probably also EQ the 9200 too. I use the RME ADI-2 DAC for eq. It works very well.

But you also say it sound more musical. That is certainly worth considering.

 

[Exekuhtor]

The D9200 is a very dynamic (punch and slam) dynamic driver, v-shaped but not overdone. You probably don't need to EQ bass into it. Midrange is still beautiful. No midbass bloat, nice bass and treble extension, decent soundstage for a closed back. Your two headphones are planars so you get a different experience anyway. I personally highly recommend the D9200, i think it's a highly underrated TOTL closed back (i prefer it to the Stellia / Verite Closed / Sony MDR-Z1R). Of course it's not everyones cup of tea but that's the case with every headphone.

 

[Slim1970]

I wonder if anyone can help me. I own LCD-X 2021 and a HE6SEv2. I like both of these, but I wanted to expand my small collection.
I was wondering whether AH-D9200 would be a useful addition?
I would like to have a phone with even better bass impact then I currently get, but without sacrificing clarity and other technical capabilities.
I am particularly interested in opinions of those who own or heard both the D9200 and LCD-X and/or HE6se
Another phone I was considering was fostex th900.
I listen to all genres of music, although more rock/pop/edm than classical.

The fact that you don't have a closed back headphone makes picking up the D9200's a no brainer in my opinion. It has a reference like tuning; clean, neutral, balanced and musical with good attack and speed for a dynamic driver headphone. I do bump up the bass. I like mine a little north of neutral and the D9200's handle it masterfully. The D9200's will make a good complement to the LCD-X and HE6se. I owned them both in the past.

 

[PeteDzi]

The fact that you don't have a closed back headphone makes picking up the D9200's a no brainer in my opinion. It has a reference like tuning; clean, neutral, balanced and musical with good attack and speed for a dynamic driver headphone. I do bump up the bass. I like mine a little north of neutral and the D9200's handle it masterfully. The D9200's will make a good complement to the LCD-X and HE6se. I owned them both in the past.

Yes, I think deep down, I really do want to get them. However my inner miser is resisting quite strongly. I had unimpressive closed backs in the past, (DT150, DT770) and would like to own a good one, but fear I might be disappointed.
I can see however that you still have your D9200, whereas you must have gotten rid of your he6se and lcd-x, so perhaps it is worth getting!

 

[PeteDzi]

You already got two very good headphones with above average bass impact. Even I have not heard the LCD-X yet, I do own the LCD-XC 2021 along with the D9200 and the HE6SEv2. I would say the D9200 has the clarity on LCD-XC level with the typical bass of a dynamic headphone with similar impact (but much easier to drive the Audeze or Hifiman).

Excellent point about ease of drive! Thanks.

 

[Slim1970]

Yes, I think deep down, I really do want to get them. However my inner miser is resisting quite strongly. I had unimpressive closed backs in the past, (DT150, DT770) and would like to own a good one, but fear I might be disappointed.

Those Beyerdynamic headphones perform nowhere to the level of the D9200's. They are mid-fi at best.

I can see however that you still have your D9200, whereas you must have gotten rid of your he6se and lcd-x, so perhaps it is worth getting!

Yes, When I had them, I had other TOTL headphones. I used them as trade bait to listen to other gear. They are both very, very good headphones. I went from the LCD-X to LCD-MX. The HE6se's were part of a package I used to obtain the HEKse's.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Yeah, the Beyers are not even close. I wrote a long comparison post of the DT1990 (the "best" Beyerdynamic and very good in its technicalities for the money) vs the AH-D9200, and they are very close, but of course the Denon is ahead. The only department where the Denon is disappointing for me is its isolation factor. It's okish, but reaches nowhere Beyer level (closed back Beyers isolate extremely good, that's why i keep the DT1770 (and because this bass cannon is just fun on tubes), then comes closed back Focal's, then the rest).
You should probably try to get an AH-D9200 for ~1k in the classified, if you don't like it you won't lose any cash.

 

[PeteDzi]

Yeah, the Beyers are not even close. I wrote a long comparison post of the DT1990 (the "best" Beyerdynamic and very good in its technicalities for the money) vs the AH-D9200, and they are very close, but of course the Denon is ahead. The only department where the Denon is disappointing for me is its isolation factor. It's okish, but reaches nowhere Beyer level (closed back Beyers isolate extremely good, that's why i keep the DT1770 (and because this bass cannon is just fun on tubes), then comes closed back Focal's, then the rest).
You should probably try to get an AH-D9200 for ~1k in the classified, if you don't like it you won't lose any cash.

Are you saying dt1990 is very close to d9200? Do you have a link handy for that comparison?
it's 3 times cheaper than the d9200!

how does the punch and slam of d9200 compare to the abyss? I don't know why I'm asking, I'll haven't heard the abyss. Just curiosity I guess.