[mt877]

I see that many people love RW3000.
Is this me only who finds its mids unnatural?
The lower mids are too thin, the upper mids have a certain boost.
I use my planar-magnetic HP and desktop system as a reference for tonality.
FF5 sounds the way more natural to me.

For what it's worth... looks like the FF5 is more boosted in the upper mids. Though both have different sound signatures, I like how both the FF5 and RW-3000 sound and it's great to be able to enjoy both for their individual tuning. In this thread you will read differing opinions on both earbuds, that doesn't mean either earbud is totally bad, it just means that we are individuals with our own sound preferences. We also have some leeway in tuning our earbuds by using different foams or combination of foams to adjust the sound close to what we prefer within the specific earbuds sound characteristics.

 

[anli]

For what it's worth... looks like the FF5 is more boosted in the upper mids. Though both have different sound signatures, I like how both the FF5 and RW-3000 sound and it's great to be able to enjoy both for their individual tuning. In this thread you will read differing opinions on both earbuds, that doesn't mean either earbud is totally bad, it just means that we are individuals with our own sound preferences. We also have some leeway in tuning our earbuds by using different foams or combination of foams to adjust the sound close to what we prefer within the specific earbuds sound characteristics.

At the age of IEMs I have thought about 1KHz as a standard de facto frequency where we fit two graphs. And it didn't correlate with my listening impressions. After some try and see and recall and - again, yes - thinking I have found approximated fitting of curves in 2-4 KHz region("roughly the same") correlates more with my feeling. Just for record. I don't mean it is the way. But at any case it is a thing to think about. 1KHz seems too arbitrary at any case.

 

[lordearl]

CVJ Seven - 14.2 mm DD with a vibration driver.

Interesting! Is it available anywhere yet? Can't seem to find it on AliExpress...

 

[DBaldock9]

You can do it. The techniques I use and will explain for soldering will minimize unsteady hands. About eyesight... while the helping hands alligator clip with magnifying glass stand is sufficient for 90% of soldering small things, I actually prefer to use a headband magnifier with a light and just the alligator clips on the stand. With a single magnifier lens (like on the stand) you're somewhat forced to view things in mono vision (primarily your dominant eye will look through the magnifier), so depth perception is thrown off which affects soldering accuracy. The headband magnifier allows stereo vision (our natural vision) and depth perception which allows you to judge the distance where the soldering iron tip and object you are soldering accurately.

I've got what looks like the white version of that magnifier - and of course, I've modified it, by removing the light, and the round lens assembly, to make it less bulky.

I should be receiving one of these high temperature silicone ESD Safe repair mats this week -
.

(From Amazon)

I've already got one of these "Helping Hands" -
.

(From Amazon)

Here's what my head-mounted magnifier looked like -
.

(From Amazon)

I've also got a floor-standing, boom-arm mounted magnifier. It was one I bought for my Mom to use while reading, before she passed away in 2016. -
.

(From Amazon)

My current soldering iron is the XYTronic Auto-Temp 168-3C Soldering Station that I bought in 1986 -
.

(Ordered from a catalog)

I have one of these Aoyue 968A Hot Air Soldering Stations (with some additional nozzles) that needs to be setup -
.

(From eBay)

I've got a desoldering iron like this one (along with spare tips), but it may be a different color -
.

(From eBay)

And, I've got one of these type stands, to hold the desoldering iron -
.

(From AliExpress)


My "Work Bench" is my dining table, which was the kitchen table that my folks bought in the early-70s. They gave it to me in 1995, when they moved to a house that was partially furnished (already had a dining table). It's a ~4-ft. Hexagonal table, with a ~2-ft. leaf. I have it extended with the leaf, and it's currently completely covered with tools & parts. I need to do a thorough clean-up & organization of the tools & parts, when I setup the new soldering station.

Once everything is setup and organized, I may start back to assembling earbuds, which mostly stopped when I moved in 2018.

 

[Mars Club]

Had we have any review on Cresyn AXE-600 yet? I can't find any review tho. Look like it comes from replica brand ...

 

[Leonarfd]

VE Monk A1
Surprisingly good deal, to be a cheap earbud it sounds quite full. Monk Plus sound thin in comparison, and this is overall a step up.

Dongle that is bundled with A1 is also a fun one, could we call it LoFi instead of HiFi? Seem to smooth the sound making it quite enjoyable and relaxing, not very high resolving to say it like that.

 

[Brillig]

I've got what looks like the white version of that magnifier - and of course, I've modified it, by removing the light, and the round lens assembly, to make it less bulky.

I should be receiving one of these high temperature silicone ESD Safe repair mats this week -
.

(From Amazon)

I've already got one of these "Helping Hands" -
.

(From Amazon)

Here's what my head-mounted magnifier looked like -
.

(From Amazon)

I've also got a floor-standing, boom-arm mounted magnifier. It was one I bought for my Mom to use while reading, before she passed away in 2016. -
.

(From Amazon)

My current soldering iron is the XYTronic Auto-Temp 168-3C Soldering Station that I bought in 1986 -
.

(Ordered from a catalog)

I have one of these Aoyue 968A Hot Air Soldering Stations (with some additional nozzles) that needs to be setup -
.

(From eBay)

I've got a desoldering iron like this one (along with spare tips), but it may be a different color -
.

(From eBay)

And, I've got one of these type stands, to hold the desoldering iron -
.

(From AliExpress)


My "Work Bench" is my dining table, which was the kitchen table that my folks bought in the early-70s. They gave it to me in 1995, when they moved to a house that was partially furnished (already had a dining table). It's a ~4-ft. Hexagonal table, with a ~2-ft. leaf. I have it extended with the leaf, and it's currently completely covered with tools & parts. I need to do a thorough clean-up & organization of the tools & parts, when I setup the new soldering station.

Once everything is setup and organized, I may start back to assembling earbuds, which mostly stopped when I moved in 2018.

Wow! Very impressive, at least to me who knows nothing about DIY earbuds except what I read on this thread. (I’m sure there are others on this thread who have equal or more extensive set ups.) It would be great to have more great DIY earbuds available to buy for us clods who can’t or aren’t willing to get into the whole DIY thing.

 

[mt877]

I've got what looks like the white version of that magnifier - and of course, I've modified it, by removing the light, and the round lens assembly, to make it less bulky.

I should be receiving one of these high temperature silicone ESD Safe repair mats this week -
.

(From Amazon)

I've already got one of these "Helping Hands" -
.

(From Amazon)

Here's what my head-mounted magnifier looked like -
.

(From Amazon)

I've also got a floor-standing, boom-arm mounted magnifier. It was one I bought for my Mom to use while reading, before she passed away in 2016. -
.

(From Amazon)

My current soldering iron is the XYTronic Auto-Temp 168-3C Soldering Station that I bought in 1986 -
.

(Ordered from a catalog)

I have one of these Aoyue 968A Hot Air Soldering Stations (with some additional nozzles) that needs to be setup -
.

(From eBay)

I've got a desoldering iron like this one (along with spare tips), but it may be a different color -
.

(From eBay)

And, I've got one of these type stands, to hold the desoldering iron -
.

(From AliExpress)


My "Work Bench" is my dining table, which was the kitchen table that my folks bought in the early-70s. They gave it to me in 1995, when they moved to a house that was partially furnished (already had a dining table). It's a ~4-ft. Hexagonal table, with a ~2-ft. leaf. I have it extended with the leaf, and it's currently completely covered with tools & parts. I need to do a thorough clean-up & organization of the tools & parts, when I setup the new soldering station.

Once everything is setup and organized, I may start back to assembling earbuds, which mostly stopped when I moved in 2018.

You got quite the kit going there. I knew you were into building buds before from reading the DIY thread. Can't wait to see some of your new builds.

 

[mt877]

At the age of IEMs I have thought about 1KHz as a standard de facto frequency where we fit two graphs. And it didn't correlate with my listening impressions. After some try and see and recall and - again, yes - thinking I have found approximated fitting of curves in 2-4 KHz region("roughly the same") correlates more with my feeling. Just for record. I don't mean it is the way. But at any case it is a thing to think about. 1KHz seems too arbitrary at any case.

Earbud graphing guru @Ronion always suggested to align somewhere between 100 and 500Hz. This is probably more realistic now.

 

[assassin10000]

Earbud graphing guru @Ronion always suggested to align somewhere between 100 and 500Hz. This is probably more realistic now.

Yep.

If you want to get a better idea for comparisons it's typically best to overlay the two graphs as even as you can. Your ears/brain interprets sound across the whole spectrum. That'll best show the differences and spikes.

 

[anli]

somewhere between 100 and 500Hz

Yes, I have started from approximately this range as far as main tones of many instruments and voices are here. But then tried the timbre range (2-4 KHz) and have found it to be more correlated with perception. And, by the way, this range 2-4 KHz is the range of maximal ear sensitivity.

At any case everybody is free to use any fitting method suitable for his ears.

 

[samandhi]

I see that many people love RW3000.
Is this me only who finds its mids unnatural?
The lower mids are too thin, the upper mids have a certain boost.
I use my planar-magnetic HP and desktop system as a reference for tonality.
FF5 sounds the way more natural to me.

If you use one set of head gear to compare, then you might never be happy with the end result unless there is a set that is tuned exactly the same. It is just this sort of difference that draws me to the RW3000. Of the buds that I have kept, it is for these subtle differences that I keep them for.

It also might be that you are so used to hearing the type of tone that you hear via your orthos, that you need to "untrain" your brain through a bit of time. To do this, simply listen to nothing but the head gear in question for about a week. You might find yourself surprised at how different your perception might be of the old gear when you return.

On the other hand, you may never get used to it, and will still not like it even after time.

But, in a way I agree with you on the RW3000 and FF5. While I wouldn't say the FF5 sounds more natural per se', I might say that the FF5 have less aggressive sounds in that region (to my ears).

CVJ Seven - 14.2 mm DD with a vibration driver.

Interesting. I raised the idea of putting a BC driver in an earbud maybe a year or so ago but consensus was that it wouldn't be very effective as earbuds don't make contact with any bone.

I am assuming they are talking about a piezeoelectric driver?! I can't read the print, so I don't know what these actually consist of. Can you translate this?

If it IS a piezo driver, it is not exclusive to being used as a BC driver. It can and has been used for air conducting sound on quite a few IEMs to date. There are even some IEM makers that will claim them to be BC where they are not.

I have two sets of IEMs from Raptgo that claim bone conduction on their box (they used to on their site, but removed the moniker later), but they are not. There is a REALLY low tech way of testing this though. Simply put it in between your teeth. If you can hear it, it is, and if not....

But, you are right either way. There is no place with flathead buds, to really make good (constant) contact with any bone. This is the other reason that makes me believe that it would be an air conducting piezo driver. I wonder if they are putting it in there just for sales sake (getting people excited about it)?!

I must admit, that I am at least intrigued.

VE Monk A1
Surprisingly good deal, to be a cheap earbud it sounds quite full. Monk Plus sound thin in comparison, and this is overall a step up.

Dongle that is bundled with A1 is also a fun one, could we call it LoFi instead of HiFi? Seem to smooth the sound making it quite enjoyable and relaxing, not very high resolving to say it like that.

This is very similar to my thoughts on the FiiO FF1. They sounded horrible on a really good and revealing source but put them into "lo-fi" mode from a phone, or cheap dongle and they are really fun to listen to (though, as you said also not super resolving). I enjoy them quite a bit, but only when using them from my phone.

Earbud graphing guru @Ronion always suggested to align somewhere between 100 and 500Hz. This is probably more realistic now.

It really shocks me that the FF5 are more boosted than the RW3000. To me they don't sound like they are offensive in any single frequency. But let's keep in mind that with earbuds, our ear shapes lend assistance in deciding the acoustical properties that a bud will have as well.

Bottom line is that I would agree with this graph on what I hear from the RW3000, insomuch as the boost (specifically where it is), tends to change the tone a bit. But, the graph for the FF5 is not what I hear (in the upper frequencies) at all. I hear it as much more linear, and with more upper treble (air) than the RW3000.

For my ears:

• FF5 = Neutral accurate
• RW3000 Fun accurate

That's just my take on these though, so YMMV!

 

[saldsald]

Interesting! Is it available anywhere yet? Can't seem to find it on AliExpress...

Not yet I think, it's just released on Taobao.

I am assuming they are talking about a piezeoelectric driver?! I can't read the print, so I don't know what these actually consist of. Can you translate this?

I don't think it's a piezo. I have opened up their CVJ Konoka it's like a very WILD DD that vibration driver so it's very likely the same technology.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-17697530

Translated with the Samsung gallery app:

 

[samandhi]

Not yet I think, it's just released on Taobao.

I don't think it's a piezo. I have opened up their CVJ Konoka it's a very WILD DD that vibration driver so it's very likely the same technology.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-17697530

Translated with the Samsung gallery app:

Hmmm... I'm no expert in this, but this looks like they are taking a simple motor and using a transducer to interpret the vibrations into air conducting sound, rather than something like this where they are making a simple BC circuit using a simple motor. I do find this very interesting and would like to learn more about these. Thank you for sharing this.

Edit: If I am right about how this is going to work, these might be pretty hard to drive to any loud volumes, but time will tell.

 

[baskingshark]

Interesting. I raised the idea of putting a BC driver in an earbud maybe a year or so ago but consensus was that it wouldn't be very effective as earbuds don't make contact with any bone.

If you use one set of head gear to compare, then you might never be happy with the end result unless there is a set that is tuned exactly the same. It is just this sort of difference that draws me to the RW3000. Of the buds that I have kept, it is for these subtle differences that I keep them for.

It also might be that you are so used to hearing the type of tone that you hear via your orthos, that you need to "untrain" your brain through a bit of time. To do this, simply listen to nothing but the head gear in question for about a week. You might find yourself surprised at how different your perception might be of the old gear when you return.

On the other hand, you may never get used to it, and will still not like it even after time.

But, in a way I agree with you on the RW3000 and FF5. While I wouldn't say the FF5 sounds more natural per se', I might say that the FF5 have less aggressive sounds in that region (to my ears).


I am assuming they are talking about a piezeoelectric driver?! I can't read the print, so I don't know what these actually consist of. Can you translate this?

If it IS a piezo driver, it is not exclusive to being used as a BC driver. It can and has been used for air conducting sound on quite a few IEMs to date. There are even some IEM makers that will claim them to be BC where they are not.

I have two sets of IEMs from Raptgo that claim bone conduction on their box (they used to on their site, but removed the moniker later), but they are not. There is a REALLY low tech way of testing this though. Simply put it in between your teeth. If you can hear it, it is, and if not....

But, you are right either way. There is no place with flathead buds, to really make good (constant) contact with any bone. This is the other reason that makes me believe that it would be an air conducting piezo driver. I wonder if they are putting it in there just for sales sake (getting people excited about it)?!

I must admit, that I am at least intrigued.


This is very similar to my thoughts on the FiiO FF1. They sounded horrible on a really good and revealing source but put them into "lo-fi" mode from a phone, or cheap dongle and they are really fun to listen to (though, as you said also not super resolving). I enjoy them quite a bit, but only when using them from my phone.

It really shocks me that the FF5 are more boosted than the RW3000. To me they don't sound like they are offensive in any single frequency. But let's keep in mind that with earbuds, our ear shapes lend assistance in deciding the acoustical properties that a bud will have as well.

Bottom line is that I would agree with this graph on what I hear from the RW3000, insomuch as the boost (specifically where it is), tends to change the tone a bit. But, the graph for the FF5 is not what I hear (in the upper frequencies) at all. I hear it as much more linear, and with more upper treble (air) than the RW3000.

For my ears:

• FF5 = Neutral accurate
• RW3000 Fun accurate

That's just my take on these though, so YMMV!

Hmmm... I'm no expert in this, but this looks like they are taking a simple motor and using a transducer to interpret the vibrations into air conducting sound, rather than something like this where they are making a simple BC circuit using a simple motor. I do find this very interesting and would like to learn more about these. Thank you for sharing this.

Edit: If I am right about how this is going to work, these might be pretty hard to drive to any loud volumes, but time will tell.

I think in the CVJ Konoka IEM, the tech was more of a bone shaker vibrator type transducer rather than a real BC.

A lot of companies like to market that they are using a "BC" but some are actually piezos (like in BQEYZ IEMs), as the true BC tech would require the driver to be pressed along a bony part of the skull like the jaw, cheek or mastoid (back of the skull). These small "BC" drivers in IEMs (and now in this earbud?) are not touching the skull bones and are still transmitting sound via the eardrum (AKA air conduction), and are probably more of a marketing ploy.