[timeslip]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why Raven is more fragile than other IEMs you produce? I have a pair of your Evos, and they’re seemingly built like tanks, while Raven seems to require kid gloves.

Are you using different printers? A new curing process? Different print settings? I know when 3d printing with resin, a lot of minute details can effect the material properties of the final product.

@Jack Vang,

This is my concern as well as this is the 4th EE IEM and I cable roll all the time. I did not use more force and the thing just came apart like an egg shell. Even on insert, you can hear it stressing.

 

[CL14715]

This would be my question also.

If it breaks, they replace it lol. That would be my guide.

 

[Stu Paddasso]

Is EE going to extend the warranty on the shells?? And what about coverage for 2nd hand buyers as this could affect resale?

 

[CL14715]

Is EE going to extend the warranty on the shells?? And what about coverage for 2nd hand buyers as this could affect resale?

That’s actually a great question.
Thankfully @Jack Vang addresses this forum unlike many others of his caliber in the industry.

 

[metaljem77]

I'm deeply aware of the current concerns surrounding the RAVEN's integrity, and I'm stepping in to directly address and remedy this situation. If you're experiencing any issues, it's paramount that you contact your dealer, ensuring that both myself (Jack@EmpireEars.com) and Leasah from customer support (Support@Empireears.com) are looped in. This way, we can expedite a resolution for you.

I'd like to shed light on some technical aspects for those who received the initial batch last week. Specifically, I want to guide you on the correct way to handle cable swapping for our IEMs. The 2-pin sockets we use are injection molded, designed to endure a pull pressure between 8-10lbs, accounting for some manufacturing variances. This design is intended for professional artists who require a snug cable fit. Fresh out of the box, the sockets measure approximately .75-.77. However, with the insertion of the standard .78 pins, they adapt to the designated specification. This can make the cable removal somewhat demanding, especially for brand new IEMs.

Given this close fit, paired with a 3D printed resin shell, exerting excessive force can potentially compromise the shell's integrity. We've curated a concise video to showcase the proper technique for cable removal, specifically tailored for the RAVEN. While this approach is RAVEN-centric, it's universally applicable across all our IEM models. The crux lies in avoiding angular force; ensure your hands are steady and gently wiggle the cable to detach it.

It's equally crucial to highlight the polymer acoustic layer located beneath the metal faceplate, adjacent to the 2-pin socket. This core, kept in place by adhesive and the resin shell, is delicate. When attaching cables, exercise caution and apply just the right amount of pressure to prevent any internal displacement.

Addressing another aspect that has come to the forefront: the shell thickness of our products, whether UIEM or CIEM, has maintained consistent wall tolerances over the past 9 years. This design decision, rooted deeply in our commitment to unparalleled acoustics, has been a constant since our inception. Our choice of material is the medical-grade DREVE resin, which we import from Germany. Its quality and durability, when treated with care, have been proven time and again, with countless musicians on global tours vouching for its reliability. However, it's essential to understand that while resilient, they are not invincible. They aren't designed to withstand extreme forces or accidental drops; undue stress can lead to breakages. We've delved into experimenting with thicker tolerances during various R&D phases over the years. But our unwavering commitment to sound fidelity has always guided us to a balanced midpoint, a design that marries sound precision with structure, albeit necessitating more meticulous handling.

I hope this clarifies our stance and the decisions behind our product design. We always prioritize offering you an unmatched audio experience without compromising on product integrity.

I genuinely regret the delay in communicating this tutorial and information to you all. To further alleviate concerns, we're adapting our manufacturing approach. Starting this week, we'll manually widen each socket in subsequent batches, making cable removal more straightforward. However, I'd still urge adherence to the demonstrated technique for optimal results.

Your feedback and satisfaction are paramount to us. For any further queries or concerns, please reach out directly. We're here for you, committed to ensuring a seamless experience with our products.

Thank you for providing assurance and clarifications. May I please check if the refreshed manufacturing approach extends to the launch edition units as well? If so, I’d like to consider waiting for a newer batch.

 

[nioh]

Cancelled my pre-order. I will wait for further clarity on the new batches for Raven while I hold on to the Odyssey !
I don’t want to purchase a €4k IEM knowing that the shells might crack any day, perhaps the next day after warranty period expires as is usual with electronics.

 

[Kiats]

Thank you for providing assurance and clarifications. May I please check if the refreshed manufacturing approach extends to the launch edition units as well? If so, I’d like to consider waiting for a newer batch.

Agree with the question: that is a very valid concern.

Where does all this leave the current owners and those who are awaiting delivery of their pre-orders? If not, the Raven IEMs which are out in the wild will surely be hit by a double whammy: the uncertainty of whether the shell will spontaneously implode/shatter with the next cable roll; whether the next owner will be buying a time bomb and the cost and inconvenience of having to try to get EE and its ADs make good on the warranty. Sure, it may be covered but it will ruin the user experience and not to mention the inconvenience, disruption, out of pocket shipping expenses and general mental distress that a “warranty” in itself does nothing to ameliorate.

Of course, what it will mean that in the resale market (and consequent pricing), there will be a distinction between shells with 0.75mm sockets and 0.78mm sockets under the “refreshed manufacturing approach”. Meaning that early adopters will be prejudiced for their belief and trust in EE and @Jack Vang .

I assume that this will NOT happen? A creation of two classes of Raven owners, under which the believers are prejudiced?

 

[Bret Halford]

Is EE going to extend the warranty on the shells?? And what about coverage for 2nd hand buyers as this could affect resale?

EE thankfully made it very easy to tell which are questionable launch units care of the golden plate. I would imagine folks on the used market will pay accordingly.

 

[zoidbb]

Agree with the question: that is a very valid concern.

Where does all this leave the current owners and those who are awaiting delivery of their pre-orders? If not, the Raven IEMs which are out in the wild will surely be hit by a double whammy: the uncertainty of whether the shell will spontaneously implode/shatter with the next cable roll; whether the next owner will be buying a time bomb and the cost and inconvenience of having to try to get EE and its ADs make good on the warranty. Sure, it may be covered but it will ruin the user experience and not to mention the inconvenience, disruption, out of pocket shipping expenses and general mental distress that a “warranty” in itself does nothing to ameliorate.

Of course, what it will mean that in the resale market (and consequent pricing), there will be a distinction between shells with 0.75mm sockets and 0.78mm sockets under the “refreshed manufacturing approach”. Meaning that early adopters will be prejudiced for their belief and trust in EE and @Jack Vang .

I assume that this will NOT happen? A creation of two classes of Raven owners, under which the believers are prejudiced?

They aren’t changing the sockets, they’re just “pre-wiggling” to reduce the pull power required to unplug.

 

[bluestorm1992]

That’s actually a great question.
Thankfully @Jack Vang addresses this forum unlike many others of his caliber in the industry.

I am sorry but I don’t understand. Did EE pay you to keep saying such “nice words” for them?

 

[bluestorm1992]

I am sure Jake and EE will handle the situation in a professional manner, but CL please don’t act like that there’s nothing wrong with the current situation. Keep saying such “nice words” for EE and you will disgust the users who are struggling with their units right now. I don’t think you are doing EE a favor, honestly.

 

[Frainen]

Still waiting for my Raven to arrive, but I have concerns now. Even more with the explanation from EE. It is nice to comment on the issue, but it somehow confirms the IEMs are more fragile to deliver the expected SQ.
If there are more incidents reported, I would consider to return my unit as it will loose its resell value very quickly or just feel like I have a ticking bomb waiting to get a ticket back to the store. Buying from an established brand, I expect to benefit from the experience crafting IEMs to be used under normal conditions.
Let's see..

 

[Kiats]

They aren’t changing the sockets, they’re just “pre-wiggling” to reduce the pull power required to unplug.

Hmmm… will that then impair the structural integrity of the sockets?

So that you either have ones where the shells may be compromised because the sockets are too tight or ones where the sockets may eventually suffer issues because they have been pre-wriggled or loosened?

 

[zoidbb]

Hmmm… will that then impair the structural integrity of the sockets?

Not anymore so than doing it yourself, and if the socket fails during manufacture then I imagine the unit doesn't get shipped.

 

[CL14715]

I am sure Jake and EE will handle the situation in a professional manner, but CL please don’t act like that there’s nothing wrong with the current situation. Keep saying such “nice words” for EE and you will disgust the users who are struggling with their units right now. I don’t think you are doing EE a favor, honestly.

Are we really going back to this non-sense after so many others hype so many other products or brands on this forum without accusations? No one has ever given me a dime. I haven’t been compensated for the tens of thousands of dollars I’ve spent to travel to GA to visit their HQ. I’ve never asked for it either. I’ve been fortunate enough to be afforded opportunities to demo products just like anyone else who invests the time or money to do so. I pay just like everyone else as a fan of the hobby. It truly sucks that there’s so many fragile personalities on here that can’t fathom that.

Most importantly, I’ve never once stated it wasn’t a problem. It could in fact be a problem but there’s not enough data to support that yet. Hell, the man himself just pulled out and re-inserted the cable without an issue so what’s up? Even if it turned into a full scale problem, I can say “nice words” about the matter at hand because I know it’ll be handled. There’s nothing wrong with being a voice of reason or reassurance about the issue while others choose to panic, especially considering it’s remediable. It’s a new product and like many others, it’s not immune to unforeseen obstacles. If one chooses to be disgusted by that, it says a lot about their character. I’m not affiliated with EE… I just like their sound, products and professionalism. Accept it and move on.