[javahut]

I understand. It’s old though, a recent update will be coming soon.

I've been hearing "soon" for a few weeks now.

 

[CL14715]

I've been hearing "soon" for a few weeks now.

Fair enough. I’m just the messenger.

 

[bneiderman]

Guys I got an unsolicited email from Empire Ears with a prepaid USPS label to ship my Ravens back. I told them I don’t cable roll and had no issues. When I asked if there were any other issues with Raven they wrote me this:

Hello Bret,

Following diligent evaluation and invaluable feedback from our esteemed community, we've identified product durability concerns that necessitate immediate attention. In light of these findings, we've initiated a recall of the Raven for a comprehensive redesign. Our primary commitment has always been to uphold the highest standards of quality that Empire Ears is renowned for. We deeply apologize for any inconvenience this might cause and understand the potential disruption it could bring to you. We hold the support and trust of our customers, especially those who've been with us from the very beginning, in the highest regard. Recognizing that the Raven, in its current state, may not align with the exceptional standards of our previous models, we believe it's essential to revisit its design. Jack is currently in thorough discussions with our team to finalize an ETA for the reengineered Raven V2. Once we have a clear timeline, customers like yourself, who have shown unwavering support from the onset, will be our topmost priority, ensuring you are among the first to receive our enhanced product. Our team is passionately working on creating the refined Raven V2, confident it will exceed expectations. We humbly request your patience and understanding during this time. Rest assured, our dedication to delivering unparalleled products remains undeterred, and we are resolute in ensuring the Raven V2 not only meets but surpasses the Empire Ears benchmark.

Kind regards,
Leasah

So I boxed them up and will be shipping them back tomorrow. Sad to see them go. They did sound great. But I would rather have a reengineered unit.

 

[AEIOU9]

Guys I got an unsolicited email from Empire Ears with a prepaid USPS label to ship my Ravens back. I told them I don’t cable roll and had no issues. When I asked if there were any other issues with Raven they wrote me this:

Hello Bret,

Following diligent evaluation and invaluable feedback from our esteemed community, we've identified product durability concerns that necessitate immediate attention. In light of these findings, we've initiated a recall of the Raven for a comprehensive redesign. Our primary commitment has always been to uphold the highest standards of quality that Empire Ears is renowned for. We deeply apologize for any inconvenience this might cause and understand the potential disruption it could bring to you. We hold the support and trust of our customers, especially those who've been with us from the very beginning, in the highest regard. Recognizing that the Raven, in its current state, may not align with the exceptional standards of our previous models, we believe it's essential to revisit its design. Jack is currently in thorough discussions with our team to finalize an ETA for the reengineered Raven V2. Once we have a clear timeline, customers like yourself, who have shown unwavering support from the onset, will be our topmost priority, ensuring you are among the first to receive our enhanced product. Our team is passionately working on creating the refined Raven V2, confident it will exceed expectations. We humbly request your patience and understanding during this time. Rest assured, our dedication to delivering unparalleled products remains undeterred, and we are resolute in ensuring the Raven V2 not only meets but surpasses the Empire Ears benchmark.

Kind regards,
Leasah

So I boxed them up and will be shipping them back tomorrow. Sad to see them go. They did sound great. But I would rather have a reengineered unit.

I’m comfortable with this action and appreciate it vs. not addressing the root of the issue.

That said, I think @Jack Vang should do something to compensate anyone who keeps their preorder in place…launch edition or standard.

A few suggestions:

1. Make the action plan official, no more second hand insights.
2. No further delay for the standard edition relative to the launch edition release, once the re-engineering is complete. Enough time has passed, further delay to prop up a special launch edition window is not reasonable in my opinion. That concept died once all these launch issues materialized.
3. Offer for all customers that had a pre-order in place before the release of the launch edition an upgraded cable, regardless of whether they purchased the limited edition or the standard one. The marginal costs of this would be small to EE as there is a lot of margin in cables and as someone who orders a healthy amount of cables to pair with IEMs, I’m sure they can negotiate a very good deal.

 

[mungster]

Glad EE is doing the right thing.

 

[mungster]

Glad EE is doing the right thing.

 

[CL14715]

I don’t think EE sends unsolicited emails or messages. I think that was most likely erroneous on the behalf of someone else raising a concern or question.

 

[bneiderman]

I don’t think EE sends unsolicited emails or messages. I think that was most likely erroneous on the behalf of someone else raising a concern or question.

No. I mean I never sent anything to Empire Ears. I bought mine from headphones.com and have been happy with them since I don’t cable swap. Never wrote to headphones.com either. Next thing I get an email from Empire asking me to send them back with a prepaid label. That is what I meant by an unsolicited email. So I am glad they are stepping up and want back even the functioning units.

 

[CL14715]

No. I mean I never sent anything to Empire Ears. I bought mine from headphones.com and have been happy with them since I don’t cable swap. Never wrote to headphones.com either. Next thing I get an email from Empire asking me to send them back with a prepaid label. That is what I meant by an unsolicited email. So I am glad they are stepping up and want back even the functioning units.

Yea yea I got you. I just think maybe a dealer fired off a question and that was the result. They are stepping up though. All is good.

 

[bneiderman]

Yea yea I got you. I just think maybe a dealer fired off a question and that was the result. They are stepping up though. All is good.

If you’re happy, keep them. They probably don’t have the minor issue. Otherwise send them back. No sweat either way.

Yeah I might as well send them back. Could be changing more than just the shell thickness and I want the best version possible. I got plenty of stuff to listen to anyway.

 

[Jack Vang]

I've been a bit off the grid—apologies for that. Following my previous exchange, and the deep introspection that ensued, I wanted to personally reach out to provide a thorough update on RAVEN.

1. The Assembly Challenge:

Observation: The heart of our concern lies in units breaking during cable rolling. We devoted significant attention to this, and upon careful examination of 8 returned broken units, 2 were impacted by external physical damage. But the remaining 6 raised our eyebrows - they displayed improper assembly. Diving deeper, we found that the 2-pin socket and the HRC (resin layer under the metal faceplate) hadn't been prepped and installed with the precision you'd expect from us. This assembly lapse, in conjunction with an overly tenacious socket, created a situation that compromised our product.​

Resolution: Our course of action is multi-pronged but singular in its aim – quality:​

Transparent Checks: We have decided to switch to a transparent resin for the HRC. This will allow us, at a glance, to confirm if both the 2-pin socket and the HRC has been positioned and installed correctly. It's a clear step (pun intended) towards proactive quality assurance.​

​

Rigorous Re-evaluation: Every unit we've produced so far will be dissected for a thorough examination to ensure alignment with our stringent specifications.​

​

Loosening the Socket: As highlighted in our previous correspondence, our socket's pull force stands at an approximate 10lbs with a factory tolerance of 0.75. We've now pioneered a dedicated tool designed to expand the gaps marginally to 0.78, thereby simplifying and refining the cable swapping procedure. It's crucial to note that we did explore alternative sockets. However, our lead engineer emphasized that any change would potentially compromise both the sound quality and design integrity. The current socket choice is not merely about robustness; its compact nature is a significant factor allowing us to maintain RAVEN's dimensions, especially given its already substantial size.​

​

Remedial Action for Sealed Units: The essence of our design is such that a correctly installed HRC results in a completely sealed and more structurally sound unit. The flip side? This sealed nature necessitates the destruction of the shell to access and assess the insides. While this might sound extreme, it is the only way to know if the unit has been installed properly and in light of recent PR we aren’t taking risks. As of now, our commitment to quality has meant the destruction of more RAVEN units than those identified as faulty. It's a testament to our 'quality over quantity' ethos.​

2. Handling and Physical Damage:

Observation: Among the returned units, two clearly displayed signs of external damage. Notably, one customer graciously admitted the mishandling. In the spirit of customer service and goodwill, we are committed to replacing these units despite the apparent cause.​

​

Resolution:​

​

Introduction of a Disclaimer: While our IEMs are crafted with meticulous care to deliver an unparalleled auditory experience, their structural integrity — like all resin constructs — has its limits. We realize the absence of clear handling guidelines might have been an oversight on our part. Consequently, starting with the RAVEN, all resin IEMs by Empire Ears will come with a clear disclaimer: the warranty does not extend to cover damages resulting from drops, physical trauma, or undue force. These instruments of sound are precisely that – delicate instruments. They are not designed for rugged use, and care must be taken to ensure their longevity. We recommend storing them away from abrasive materials, sharp objects, and ensuring they're adequately protected when not in use. This step, we believe, will guide our customers in cherishing and maintaining their IEMs in the pristine condition they deserve.​

3. Finish and Polishing Concerns:

Observation: A subset of the launch editions of RAVEN presented large, notable polishing marks beneath the gold layer. These imperfections, though not in line with our commitment to quality, have shed light on a significant process challenge.​

​

Insight: Our ambition to integrate raised logos and mirror finishes was met with the understanding of their complexity. Such designs are rare not without reason: they demand labor-intensive efforts and are susceptible to high rates of failure. While I was actively involved in overseeing the CNC process, it was only after I left that we realized several units had been compromised during transportation to the coating facility. A last-minute decision by the polishers was made to rectify these imperfections with an expedited repolishing before the coating was applied. Regrettably, this swift move didn't produce the expected results.​

Resolution:​

Engagement with a New Vendor: To address this, we have collaborated with a new vendor who possesses the expertise to curtail these minor imperfections. The preliminary samples we've received from them have been encouragingly superior. It's crucial to note that our metal plate, beyond its aesthetic appeal, serves a critical function as a resonance point for the W10 bone conductor. Consequently, while we aim for a high-quality finish, its primary purpose is sound optimization and not just mere ornamentation. In our pursuit of excellence, our updated polishing methodology minimizes imperfections. However, when subjected to intense LED light and viewed from a very specific angle, some delicate traces from the polishing process might become perceptible. It's crucial for our customers to recognize that these are not flaws, but very minuscule traces inherent in the rigorous polishing process. Exchanges will not be facilitated based on these minuscule marks unless they're conspicuously evident under normal viewing conditions. While we are passionate about achieving a pristine aesthetic, our primary dedication remains steadfast: delivering unrivaled sound quality.​

4. Further Insights:

Shell Thickness: Feedback regarding our shell thickness has not gone unnoticed. Upon finalizing post-processing, our shells measure at approximately 1mm, which is consistent with several industry leaders and .3mm thicker than our previous specification. Our dedication to R&D saw us exploring various shell thicknesses, even engaging with customers in Tokyo and NYC by presenting them as two distinct RAVEN prototypes—though the primary distinction was merely thickness. On revisiting this facet, our exhaustive tests revealed that a thicker shell not only enlarges the housing but also constricts the soundstage and introduces a darker tonal quality. In our commitment to preserve the signature RAVEN sound, we've decided to maintain our current shell thickness and DREVE resin material.​

​

A Note to Current RAVEN Owners: It's worth noting that fewer than 5% of our delivered units were identified as defective. Many customers have expressed contentment with their units. However, we understand that public discussions can foster concerns. For those delighted with their RAVENs, we encourage worry-free usage. Any potential assembly-related issues, now more readily identifiable, will be fully covered under our 2-year manufacturer’s warranty from the purchase date. If you haven't encountered any concerns with your unit, we'd advise against returning them, as you received a unit that aligns with our standards.​

​

Delivery Expectations: We're on track to commence shipping by early November, aiming to have all launch editions dispatched by the end of November, though our target extends to early December. Prioritization will be given to pre-paid dealers and customers with defective units, with standard editions following soon after.​

The delay has been as challenging for us as it has been for you. While apologies can't undo the oversights, our promise to you is that we've delved deep into every concern, retaining the envisioned auditory experience while bolstering quality. Your trust and patience mean everything to us. As always, feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any further questions.

 

[bneiderman]

Awesome. So since I don’t cable roll I will keep the ones I have and not send back.

 

[javahut]

duplicate

 

[javahut]

I've been a bit off the grid—apologies for that. Following my previous exchange, and the deep introspection that ensued, I wanted to personally reach out to provide a thorough update on RAVEN.

1. The Assembly Challenge:

Observation: The heart of our concern lies in units breaking during cable rolling. We devoted significant attention to this, and upon careful examination of 8 returned broken units, 2 were impacted by external physical damage. But the remaining 6 raised our eyebrows - they displayed improper assembly. Diving deeper, we found that the 2-pin socket and the HRC (resin layer under the metal faceplate) hadn't been prepped and installed with the precision you'd expect from us. This assembly lapse, in conjunction with an overly tenacious socket, created a situation that compromised our product.​

Resolution: Our course of action is multi-pronged but singular in its aim – quality:​

Transparent Checks: We have decided to switch to a transparent resin for the HRC. This will allow us, at a glance, to confirm if both the 2-pin socket and the HRC has been positioned and installed correctly. It's a clear step (pun intended) towards proactive quality assurance.​

​

Rigorous Re-evaluation: Every unit we've produced so far will be dissected for a thorough examination to ensure alignment with our stringent specifications.​

​

Loosening the Socket: As highlighted in our previous correspondence, our socket's pull force stands at an approximate 10lbs with a factory tolerance of 0.75. We've now pioneered a dedicated tool designed to expand the gaps marginally to 0.78, thereby simplifying and refining the cable swapping procedure. It's crucial to note that we did explore alternative sockets. However, our lead engineer emphasized that any change would potentially compromise both the sound quality and design integrity. The current socket choice is not merely about robustness; its compact nature is a significant factor allowing us to maintain RAVEN's dimensions, especially given its already substantial size.​

​

Remedial Action for Sealed Units: The essence of our design is such that a correctly installed HRC results in a completely sealed and more structurally sound unit. The flip side? This sealed nature necessitates the destruction of the shell to access and assess the insides. While this might sound extreme, it is the only way to know if the unit has been installed properly and in light of recent PR we aren’t taking risks. As of now, our commitment to quality has meant the destruction of more RAVEN units than those identified as faulty. It's a testament to our 'quality over quantity' ethos.​

2. Handling and Physical Damage:

Observation: Among the returned units, two clearly displayed signs of external damage. Notably, one customer graciously admitted the mishandling. In the spirit of customer service and goodwill, we are committed to replacing these units despite the apparent cause.​

​

Resolution:​

​

Introduction of a Disclaimer: While our IEMs are crafted with meticulous care to deliver an unparalleled auditory experience, their structural integrity — like all resin constructs — has its limits. We realize the absence of clear handling guidelines might have been an oversight on our part. Consequently, starting with the RAVEN, all resin IEMs by Empire Ears will come with a clear disclaimer: the warranty does not extend to cover damages resulting from drops, physical trauma, or undue force. These instruments of sound are precisely that – delicate instruments. They are not designed for rugged use, and care must be taken to ensure their longevity. We recommend storing them away from abrasive materials, sharp objects, and ensuring they're adequately protected when not in use. This step, we believe, will guide our customers in cherishing and maintaining their IEMs in the pristine condition they deserve.​

3. Finish and Polishing Concerns:

Observation: A subset of the launch editions of RAVEN presented large, notable polishing marks beneath the gold layer. These imperfections, though not in line with our commitment to quality, have shed light on a significant process challenge.​

​

Insight: Our ambition to integrate raised logos and mirror finishes was met with the understanding of their complexity. Such designs are rare not without reason: they demand labor-intensive efforts and are susceptible to high rates of failure. While I was actively involved in overseeing the CNC process, it was only after I left that we realized several units had been compromised during transportation to the coating facility. A last-minute decision by the polishers was made to rectify these imperfections with an expedited repolishing before the coating was applied. Regrettably, this swift move didn't produce the expected results.​

Resolution:​

Engagement with a New Vendor: To address this, we have collaborated with a new vendor who possesses the expertise to curtail these minor imperfections. The preliminary samples we've received from them have been encouragingly superior. It's crucial to note that our metal plate, beyond its aesthetic appeal, serves a critical function as a resonance point for the W10 bone conductor. Consequently, while we aim for a high-quality finish, its primary purpose is sound optimization and not just mere ornamentation. In our pursuit of excellence, our updated polishing methodology minimizes imperfections. However, when subjected to intense LED light and viewed from a very specific angle, some delicate traces from the polishing process might become perceptible. It's crucial for our customers to recognize that these are not flaws, but very minuscule traces inherent in the rigorous polishing process. Exchanges will not be facilitated based on these minuscule marks unless they're conspicuously evident under normal viewing conditions. While we are passionate about achieving a pristine aesthetic, our primary dedication remains steadfast: delivering unrivaled sound quality.​

4. Further Insights:

Shell Thickness: Feedback regarding our shell thickness has not gone unnoticed. Upon finalizing post-processing, our shells measure at approximately 1mm, which is consistent with several industry leaders and .3mm thicker than our previous specification. Our dedication to R&D saw us exploring various shell thicknesses, even engaging with customers in Tokyo and NYC by presenting them as two distinct RAVEN prototypes—though the primary distinction was merely thickness. On revisiting this facet, our exhaustive tests revealed that a thicker shell not only enlarges the housing but also constricts the soundstage and introduces a darker tonal quality. In our commitment to preserve the signature RAVEN sound, we've decided to maintain our current shell thickness and DREVE resin material.​

​

A Note to Current RAVEN Owners: It's worth noting that fewer than 5% of our delivered units were identified as defective. Many customers have expressed contentment with their units. However, we understand that public discussions can foster concerns. For those delighted with their RAVENs, we encourage worry-free usage. Any potential assembly-related issues, now more readily identifiable, will be fully covered under our 2-year manufacturer’s warranty from the purchase date. If you haven't encountered any concerns with your unit, we'd advise against returning them, as you received a unit that aligns with our standards.​

​

Delivery Expectations: We're on track to commence shipping by early November, aiming to have all launch editions dispatched by the end of November, though our target extends to early December. Prioritization will be given to pre-paid dealers and customers with defective units, with standard editions following soon after.​

The delay has been as challenging for us as it has been for you. While apologies can't undo the oversights, our promise to you is that we've delved deep into every concern, retaining the envisioned auditory experience while bolstering quality. Your trust and patience mean everything to us. As always, feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any further questions.

"...with standard editions following soon after."

You do realize you have quite a few pre-order customers that preferred to order the Standard Edition, even though the Launch Edition was available. It seems again Standard Edition pre-orders are being put on the back burner, with your statement that they'll follow "soon after"... again giving us an open-ended delivery date. We've already had these Standard Edition pre-orders in for 2 months. The least you could do is treat ALL pre-orders already in with the same urgency

 

[tjzurlaaa]

I'd venture some people never remove the cable. Possible?

I've been a bit off the grid—apologies for that. Following my previous exchange, and the deep introspection that ensued, I wanted to personally reach out to provide a thorough update on RAVEN.

1. The Assembly Challenge:

Observation: The heart of our concern lies in units breaking during cable rolling. We devoted significant attention to this, and upon careful examination of 8 returned broken units, 2 were impacted by external physical damage. But the remaining 6 raised our eyebrows - they displayed improper assembly. Diving deeper, we found that the 2-pin socket and the HRC (resin layer under the metal faceplate) hadn't been prepped and installed with the precision you'd expect from us. This assembly lapse, in conjunction with an overly tenacious socket, created a situation that compromised our product.​

Resolution: Our course of action is multi-pronged but singular in its aim – quality:​

Transparent Checks: We have decided to switch to a transparent resin for the HRC. This will allow us, at a glance, to confirm if both the 2-pin socket and the HRC has been positioned and installed correctly. It's a clear step (pun intended) towards proactive quality assurance.​

​

Rigorous Re-evaluation: Every unit we've produced so far will be dissected for a thorough examination to ensure alignment with our stringent specifications.​

​

Loosening the Socket: As highlighted in our previous correspondence, our socket's pull force stands at an approximate 10lbs with a factory tolerance of 0.75. We've now pioneered a dedicated tool designed to expand the gaps marginally to 0.78, thereby simplifying and refining the cable swapping procedure. It's crucial to note that we did explore alternative sockets. However, our lead engineer emphasized that any change would potentially compromise both the sound quality and design integrity. The current socket choice is not merely about robustness; its compact nature is a significant factor allowing us to maintain RAVEN's dimensions, especially given its already substantial size.​

​

Remedial Action for Sealed Units: The essence of our design is such that a correctly installed HRC results in a completely sealed and more structurally sound unit. The flip side? This sealed nature necessitates the destruction of the shell to access and assess the insides. While this might sound extreme, it is the only way to know if the unit has been installed properly and in light of recent PR we aren’t taking risks. As of now, our commitment to quality has meant the destruction of more RAVEN units than those identified as faulty. It's a testament to our 'quality over quantity' ethos.​

2. Handling and Physical Damage:

Observation: Among the returned units, two clearly displayed signs of external damage. Notably, one customer graciously admitted the mishandling. In the spirit of customer service and goodwill, we are committed to replacing these units despite the apparent cause.​

​

Resolution:​

​

Introduction of a Disclaimer: While our IEMs are crafted with meticulous care to deliver an unparalleled auditory experience, their structural integrity — like all resin constructs — has its limits. We realize the absence of clear handling guidelines might have been an oversight on our part. Consequently, starting with the RAVEN, all resin IEMs by Empire Ears will come with a clear disclaimer: the warranty does not extend to cover damages resulting from drops, physical trauma, or undue force. These instruments of sound are precisely that – delicate instruments. They are not designed for rugged use, and care must be taken to ensure their longevity. We recommend storing them away from abrasive materials, sharp objects, and ensuring they're adequately protected when not in use. This step, we believe, will guide our customers in cherishing and maintaining their IEMs in the pristine condition they deserve.​

3. Finish and Polishing Concerns:

Observation: A subset of the launch editions of RAVEN presented large, notable polishing marks beneath the gold layer. These imperfections, though not in line with our commitment to quality, have shed light on a significant process challenge.​

​

Insight: Our ambition to integrate raised logos and mirror finishes was met with the understanding of their complexity. Such designs are rare not without reason: they demand labor-intensive efforts and are susceptible to high rates of failure. While I was actively involved in overseeing the CNC process, it was only after I left that we realized several units had been compromised during transportation to the coating facility. A last-minute decision by the polishers was made to rectify these imperfections with an expedited repolishing before the coating was applied. Regrettably, this swift move didn't produce the expected results.​

Resolution:​

Engagement with a New Vendor: To address this, we have collaborated with a new vendor who possesses the expertise to curtail these minor imperfections. The preliminary samples we've received from them have been encouragingly superior. It's crucial to note that our metal plate, beyond its aesthetic appeal, serves a critical function as a resonance point for the W10 bone conductor. Consequently, while we aim for a high-quality finish, its primary purpose is sound optimization and not just mere ornamentation. In our pursuit of excellence, our updated polishing methodology minimizes imperfections. However, when subjected to intense LED light and viewed from a very specific angle, some delicate traces from the polishing process might become perceptible. It's crucial for our customers to recognize that these are not flaws, but very minuscule traces inherent in the rigorous polishing process. Exchanges will not be facilitated based on these minuscule marks unless they're conspicuously evident under normal viewing conditions. While we are passionate about achieving a pristine aesthetic, our primary dedication remains steadfast: delivering unrivaled sound quality.​

4. Further Insights:

Shell Thickness: Feedback regarding our shell thickness has not gone unnoticed. Upon finalizing post-processing, our shells measure at approximately 1mm, which is consistent with several industry leaders and .3mm thicker than our previous specification. Our dedication to R&D saw us exploring various shell thicknesses, even engaging with customers in Tokyo and NYC by presenting them as two distinct RAVEN prototypes—though the primary distinction was merely thickness. On revisiting this facet, our exhaustive tests revealed that a thicker shell not only enlarges the housing but also constricts the soundstage and introduces a darker tonal quality. In our commitment to preserve the signature RAVEN sound, we've decided to maintain our current shell thickness and DREVE resin material.​

​

A Note to Current RAVEN Owners: It's worth noting that fewer than 5% of our delivered units were identified as defective. Many customers have expressed contentment with their units. However, we understand that public discussions can foster concerns. For those delighted with their RAVENs, we encourage worry-free usage. Any potential assembly-related issues, now more readily identifiable, will be fully covered under our 2-year manufacturer’s warranty from the purchase date. If you haven't encountered any concerns with your unit, we'd advise against returning them, as you received a unit that aligns with our standards.​

​

Delivery Expectations: We're on track to commence shipping by early November, aiming to have all launch editions dispatched by the end of November, though our target extends to early December. Prioritization will be given to pre-paid dealers and customers with defective units, with standard editions following soon after.​

The delay has been as challenging for us as it has been for you. While apologies can't undo the oversights, our promise to you is that we've delved deep into every concern, retaining the envisioned auditory experience while bolstering quality. Your trust and patience mean everything to us. As always, feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any further questions.

Thank you for coming back, Jack I think you’re doing the right thing. It really sucks that mine broke but the few days I listened to them were amazing. You guys really did something special with the sound.