[docholliday]

Well now you can save that money and put it toward an X3III or one of the others in the $200 price range. I think the X3III is going to be good because it took them awhile to get it ready and they probably learned a lot from mistakes made with the X1II or at least I hope they did.

That'll be interesting to see. Both the X1-II and the X3-III use the Ingenic JZ4760B - a really slow processor running only 600MHz with no L2 cache. If the X1-II lags due to the slow proc, I think the X3-III should exhibit the same slowness. If they "optimized" the OS on the X3-III a helluva lot and they get the unit to run smoothly, there's gonna be a lot of X1-II people pissed because they didn't get their devs to do the same to the X1-II since both run the same OS and Linux core.

In comparison, the Cayin N3 uses the Ingenic X1000, which is 1GHz with a 128K L2 cache and runs smoothly.

 

[bruce1967]

That'll be interesting to see. Both the X1-II and the X3-III use the Ingenic JZ4760B - a really slow processor running only 600MHz with no L2 cache. If the X1-II lags due to the slow proc, I think the X3-III should exhibit the same slowness. If they "optimized" the OS on the X3-III a helluva lot and they get the unit to run smoothly, there's gonna be a lot of X1-II people pissed because they didn't get their devs to do the same to the X1-II since both run the same OS and Linux core.

In comparison, the Cayin N3 uses the Ingenic X1000, which is 1GHz with a 128K L2 cache and runs smoothly.

I wonder if it's possible to optimize the the OS even more than they have so far with a firmware update or is it impossible due to the limitations of the processor? Maybe they should have stayed with the old OS and just omitted the bluetooth.

 

[docholliday]

I wonder if it's possible to optimize the the OS even more than they have so far with a firmware update or is it impossible due to the limitations of the processor? Maybe they should have stayed with the old OS and just omitted the bluetooth.

A lot of the lag I see on the X1-II seems to be processor limited. L2 cache (and L3 cache) makes a huge difference in how a processor can perform it's tasks. The cache is like a scratchpad for items being worked on by the proc. The L1 is the closest level to the processor. Each tier is further away from the processor, and in turn slower. If the L1 retrieval is in the microseconds, then L2 would be in the milliseconds. The furthest away is the RAM, which is usually in the order of 10-100 milliseconds access. If data exceeded the size of the L1 (or the processor needed to stop what it's doing and do something else) it's swap out the L1 data for the new data. With L2, it'd push that data from L1 to L2 and reload it later (quickly). Without it, the data would have to be reloaded from the RAM (or even worse, the SD). Data is usually buffered from a slower device into a faster device when possible. From slowest to fastest, that'd be SD > RAM > L1 (there's no L2 on the JZ4760B). But, since RAM is limited, you can't just go making huge buffers so the processor has to do more of the work.

The lag in decoding the album covers as well as the buffering glitches makes me think that the tradeoff is between available RAM and internal buffering configurations. It's hard to say, but I think they'd have to do a massive re-design and re-write of the OS/software to fix some issues and truly make it smooth.

 

[bruce1967]

A lot of the lag I see on the X1-II seems to be processor limited. L2 cache (and L3 cache) makes a huge difference in how a processor can perform it's tasks. The cache is like a scratchpad for items being worked on by the proc. The L1 is the closest level to the processor. Each tier is further away from the processor, and in turn slower. If the L1 retrieval is in the microseconds, then L2 would be in the milliseconds. The furthest away is the RAM, which is usually in the order of 10-100 milliseconds access. If data exceeded the size of the L1 (or the processor needed to stop what it's doing and do something else) it's swap out the L1 data for the new data. With L2, it'd push that data from L1 to L2 and reload it later (quickly). Without it, the data would have to be reloaded from the RAM (or even worse, the SD). Data is usually buffered from a slower device into a faster device when possible. From slowest to fastest, that'd be SD > RAM > L1 (there's no L2 on the JZ4760B). But, since RAM is limited, you can't just go making huge buffers so the processor has to do more of the work.

The lag in decoding the album covers as well as the buffering glitches makes me think that the tradeoff is between available RAM and internal buffering configurations. It's hard to say, but I think they'd have to do a massive re-design and re-write of the OS/software to fix some issues and truly make it smooth.

So it probably isn't going to happen then. Oh well...it lags but it still works well enough..

 

[docholliday]

So it probably isn't going to happen then. Oh well...it lags but it still works well enough..

If they did a ground up re-design, it'll probably end up as the X3-III's OS. Hopefully, they'll backport the work into the X1-II, but seeing the issues they're dealing with the X5-III, I don't see it any time soon.

I never minded the slow library updates and I don't use Bluetooth. But the lock up and weird artifacting has made me put my X1-II up on a shelf for the last month and I've been using the Cayin N3 for everything as it's been flawless. Maybe by the end of the year, the X1-II will get a real firmware update fixing the issues and I'll be able to use it as well...

 

[fourrobert13]

My N3 sees more use too. X5II stills gets used pretty regularly, but the X1II not so much.

 

[bruce1967]

If they did a ground up re-design, it'll probably end up as the X3-III's OS. Hopefully, they'll backport the work into the X1-II, but seeing the issues they're dealing with the X5-III, I don't see it any time soon.

I never minded the slow library updates and I don't use Bluetooth. But the lock up and weird artifacting has made me put my X1-II up on a shelf for the last month and I've been using the Cayin N3 for everything as it's been flawless. Maybe by the end of the year, the X1-II will get a real firmware update fixing the issues and I'll be able to use it as well...

I still use mine everyday and the lag can be a little annoying at times but I still use it...hopefully they really do have a fw update to fix the major issues sometime in the not too distant future.

 

[fourrobert13]

Honesty, they're going to have their hands full with the X5III and X7II. They never got the first X7 right from what I've read. Granted not every user is having issues, but they seem to be popping up more and more (at least for the X5III because the X7II just got the market).

I can live with the current speed of the X1II, but cutting off the first part of a track is pretty annoying and really the main reason I don't use it that often. The N3 just worked out of the box and sounds so much better IMO. I'd love for an X3III to be better, but like Doc said, I'm not sure it will be.

 

[bruce1967]

Honesty, they're going to have their hands full with the X5III and X7II. They never got the first X7 right from what I've read. Granted not every user is having issues, but they seem to be popping up more and more (at least for the X5III because the X7II just got the market).

I can live with the current speed of the X1II, but cutting off the first part of a track is pretty annoying and really the main reason I don't use it that often. The N3 just worked out of the box and sounds so much better IMO. I'd love for an X3III to be better, but like Doc said, I'm not sure it will be.

I'm thinking after this latest discussion that maybe when the X3III hits the market I will wait for some feedback from other users before I buy it (I say that now . I find that as useful as an actual review.

 

[fourrobert13]

I'm thinking after this latest discussion that maybe when the X3III hits the market I will wait for some feedback from other users before I buy it (I say that now . I find that as useful as an actual review.

Real user feedback is important to listen to because they're not going to sugarcoat a problem or use some colorful terminology. I learned my lesson with the FiiO M3. I read a few reviews of the X1II early on that didn't match what was being reported in this thread. There were some honest reviews, but I really got a feel for who was honest and who was doing it for something free or a discount...just saying. I do this for anything buy so it's not just DAPs.

 

[bruce1967]

Real user feedback is important to listen to because they're not going to sugarcoat a problem or use some colorful terminology. I learned my lesson with the FiiO M3. I read a few reviews of the X1II early on that didn't match what was being reported in this thread. There were some honest reviews, but I really got a feel for who was honest and who was doing it for something free or a discount...just saying. I do this for anything buy so it's not just DAPs.

I was talking to a person who was doing a review for the X1II and we exchanged a number of private messages and told me straight out that he thought the X1II was not very good as far as the UI and the slow operating system went but he was getting a free demo so he said he needed to make the review of the X1II sound at least decent or he wouldn't be getting any more freebies in the future. Now it wasn't Fiio that gave him the X1II but a shop..Im not sure where.

 

[fourrobert13]

I was talking to a person who was doing a review for the X1II and we exchanged a number of private messages and told me straight out that he thought the X1II was not very good as far as the UI and the slow operating system went but he was getting a free demo so he said he needed to make the review of the X1II sound at least decent or he wouldn't be getting any more freebies in the future. Now it wasn't Fiio that gave him the X1II but a shop..Im not sure where.

Yeah...that kinda proves what I just said. If it's who I'm thinking about, I see him in many different threads trying to get a "review unit." I know there are regular guys on here that review just about everything in the market. Eventually the reviews start to sound the same. I was glad to see some of them express honest opinions about the X1II which reinforced their reputation with me as an honest reviewer.

 

[bruce1967]

Yeah...that kinda proves what I just said. If it's who I'm thinking about, I see him in many different threads trying to get a "review unit." I know there are regular guys on here that review just about everything in the market. Eventually the reviews start to sound the same. I was glad to see some of them express honest opinions about the X1II which reinforced their reputation with me as an honest reviewer.

I haven't seen him post in this thread in a long time...maybe since back in February but yes there are some people on here that are good at doing reviews and are honest. One reviewer familiar to most regulars on here told me he wouldn't review the X1II at least until they did a decent firmware update..I don't know if he ever did one.

 

[fourrobert13]

I haven't seen him post in this thread in a long time...maybe since back in February but yes there are some people on here that are good at doing reviews and are honest. One reviewer familiar to most regulars on here told me he wouldn't review the X1II at least until they did a decent firmware update..I don't know if he ever did one.

I think one reviewer posted that in this thread if it's who I'm thinking about. I don't think he ever did a review either. Since I started checking out other DAPs, I follow a lot of the other threads just to see what's out there (it's how I ended up getting my N3) and what issues they have or don't have. People always say every DAP has its problems and I've decided to stay educated in that area. We'll see what happens I suppose.

 

[Jayden16]

Well now you can save that money and put it toward an X3III or one of the others in the $200 price range. I think the X3III is going to be good because it took them awhile to get it ready and they probably learned a lot from mistakes made with the X1II or at least I hope they did.

I think I'll be skipping the X3-II in all honesty. I enjoyed the sound of the X1-II and had no problems with folder browsing, but FiiO have too many products on the go to fix all of the other issues. Plus, I have an LG G6 (Quad DAC model) and it sounds terrific. I'm still trying to decide whether I want to use it as a DAP full-time or not, but so far it's been great. If I want something purely for music in the future though, I think I'll be looking at offerings from other companies unless the X3-II hits it out of the park. FiiO really need a smooth launch with that product.