[Soundtrap]

After having been supportive and patient about this DAP for months i decided to sell mine, and to move on. I'm unhappy about a Fiio product for the first time, and even if i kept hope that the situation would improve in time i have to surrender now. I need a DAP who doesn't crash several times a day, i need a DAP who isn't sluggish to use, i need a DAP that would resume without crashing when i pause it for some time, i need a DAP with a balanced output that doesn't hiss so much, i need a DAP who can handle reasonably big libraries, i need a DAP i can rely on, and the X5 III failed in too many aspects (and i forgot to mention the poor wifi chip).

I know Fiio you did your best in trying to improve the situation, but there was too much to do and there is still so much to do, some you will fix, and some you can't fix (hardware related), i wish you the best and hope you'll end up making this device stable. I also hope you'll learn the lesson and don't release an unfinished product anymore (oh yes hardware is nothing without good software).

I don't really blame you, you're still a young company, and i know you'll improve in time, but for now you're not up to the task yet. Thanks for the good communication and support you provided though.

bye bye X5 III !

I think you might had a faulty unit. I have no issues at all and my library is almost 11,000 songs, including some DSD, most Flac lossless and some lower bitrates. I don't use WiFi , except for firmware download, nor Bluetooth.

 

[Brooko]

There is no frequency change with the F9 going to balanced - I've measured them. And on the X5iii you don't get the same increase in voltage and overall power you get from most balanced set-ups. In fact you get slightly less. So lets look at the other specs.

Remember how balanced is always "cleaner", "darker", "more spacious", "wider sound-stage" ....... Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 115 dB and on balanced is 111 dB (actually worse). But both are beyond what we can hear - so no real difference. Both have THD+N measurements at 0.003% = well beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 98 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:

The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.

The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.
So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.

As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 98 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

1. People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
2. Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 1 ohm (SE) vs 3 ohm (bal) output. he F9 is 28 ohms, and as I said - no change in frequency response curves.

My advice - don't go balanced for the sake of going balanced, and not with the X5iii. The 2.5mm port is nice if you have a cable you prefer to use and it happens to be balanced. On the X7ii its a different matter as the balanced out is more powerful, and will actually drive 300 ohm headphones pretty well. So if you're planning on driving an HD600 for example - thats where the balanced on the X7ii would come in handy.

 

[Soundtrap]

So this is your response to others who have problems, "if you do not like it then sod off".

I was asking the moderator not to berate people who are having problems, after all is this not meant to be a support thread? Or is this a thread for sycophants to blow smoke up the arse of FiiO.

So please tell me, is this a support thread or an advertising platform?

Edit: And in spite of the many flaws, as I have repeatedly stated I am very happy with the sound quality of the X5iii.

• I do not play High Rate DSD so those issues do not affect me and personally I find the idea of having a single song consuming hundreds of megabytes ridiculous, can anyone honestly hear the difference?

• I do not use my X5iii for bluetooth.

• I do not stream over wifi.

So as a folder/song player it serves me fine, my only issue is not being able to connect it with my laptop, however, I manage my music by an external SD Writer.

My personal opinion is that FiiO is trying to cram in too many features within a budget dap.

Let me chime in on this. I had in the past quite brutally attacked FiiO and Ibasso in regards of issues I had with mine X5 Mk1 and DX90, so I am not biased, nor I advertise for either since every piece of my Audiophile gear (except Momentum In Ear -courtesy of RedFli for a stuff up with the order) has been purchased with my hard earned cash (and some lending by a Bank, but that's long story - I am a bit sick you know!). So, X5III does have some issues for some folks, not denying. Here is how I use all of mine DAPs and Headphones: I plug them in turn on shuffle all and walk down the street and a huge Park ( One Tree Hill) with my cheeky Rottweiler Teddy and I forget about all problems of this world, including my personal and trust me I do have a few and just go around with the big grim on my face. There is no issue on any of my players that Music can't tonne down. So, just immerse yourselves and enjoy the sound....

 

[Matrix Petka]

There is no frequency change with the F9 going to balanced - I've measured them. And on the X5iii you don't get the same increase in voltage and overall power you get from most balanced set-ups. In fact you get slightly less. So lets look at the other specs.

Remember how balanced is always "cleaner", "darker", "more spacious", "wider sound-stage" ....... Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 115 dB and on balanced is 111 dB (actually worse). But both are beyond what we can hear - so no real difference. Both have THD+N measurements at 0.003% = well beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 98 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:

As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 98 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

1. People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
2. Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 1 ohm (SE) vs 3 ohm (bal) output. he F9 is 28 ohms, and as I said - no change in frequency response curves.

My advice - don't go balanced for the sake of going balanced, and not with the X5iii. The 2.5mm port is nice if you have a cable you prefer to use and it happens to be balanced. On the X7ii its a different matter as the balanced out is more powerful, and will actually drive 300 ohm headphones pretty well. So if you're planning on driving an HD600 for example - thats where the balanced on the X7ii would come in handy.

There is several different circuits of balanced amplifiers. It looks that X5 III it is using simple semi balanced circuit. And there is not big improvement in sound quality. ACG balanced vs SE on Onkyo DPX1 audible better, audible difference on WM1A too.

 

[Brooko]

Yep conceivably there could be if the circuit is very different. On most I've experienced though, when you volume match and test blind, those differences quickly disappear. Best way to check quickly is using an SPL meter and test tones to volume match, and a balanced to SE adaptor so someone can switch for you quickly. As long as you can't see what they are doing, and the changes are randomised - ie sometimes unplug bal, replug bal etc - then I'd suggest on a lot of set-ups people would be surprised.

All I'm suggesting is for people not to blindly accept that balanced is an improvement.

 

[MinnieOne]

All I'm suggesting is for people not to blindly accept that balanced is an improvement.

The thing is, if you think balanced is an improvement then it probably is and mission accomplished. It may not be a scientifically proven thing but the mind is so powerful that it works. Why does my wife spend $30 for a bottle of magical shampoo that is identical to a $5 bottle, because she believes it will work.

 

[Karendar]

OK, but that is around $540 US. I paid $360 for my X5III. The premise that @Karendar offered was that there are devices with "better" (newer?) hardware for cheaper.
I like that it does MQA. My curiosity is killing me about how well that format really works.

Actually, the premise I was invoking was more that the mobile market's hardware is better/cheaper than what current audiophile grade DAPs offer... Which makes me wonder why these companies churning out devices don't move faster on the hardware aspect. I understand why they do it (software integration is known, cost of parts are cheap due to their existing presence online, people don't seem to ask for more, etc.), but I always have this nagging feeling that they can do much better. Especially considering I think they've reached the limit of what Rockchip has to offer.

 

[MacedonianHero]

You've made your point (repeatedly) as I've done mine (repeatedly). Not harsh - just stating how it is.

We have different perspectives. I'm leaving it as that. Feel free to carry on - I've said my piece.

BTW - 1.1.8 (soon to come) is pretty stable. Mind you, the rest have been for me as well

FWIW, I never thought your comments were harsh. I'm with you! Using it now with: X5 MkIII --> Hugo 2 --> LCDi4s both flawless and brilliant!

 

[superuser1]

FWIW, I never thought your comments were harsh. I'm with you! Using it now with: X5 MkIII --> Hugo 2 --> LCDi4s both flawless and brilliant!

Could you please tell me if you are experiencing down sampling while playing from coax to your Hugo 2?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Could you please tell me if you are experiencing down sampling while playing from coax to your Hugo 2?

None, I've tried DSD64, 192, 96 and never had an issue.

 

[superuser1]

You have inspired me to try to use coax again. A little while back i did try to use it with the iDSD BL but the Fiio Music app would crash while playing some 24/192 files. This occurred mostly when skipping or changing tracks.

 

[MacedonianHero]

You have inspired me to try to use coax again. A little while back i did try to use it with the iDSD BL but the Fiio Music app would crash while playing some 24/192 files. This occurred mostly when skipping or changing tracks.

Might have been an earlier firmware? The current one is rock solid. Used it for a few hours tonight and never had an issue.

 

[mandrake50]

Let me chime in on this. I had in the past quite brutally attacked FiiO and Ibasso in regards of issues I had with mine X5 Mk1 and DX90, so I am not biased, nor I advertise for either since every piece of my Audiophile gear (except Momentum In Ear -courtesy of RedFli for a stuff up with the order) has been purchased with my hard earned cash (and some lending by a Bank, but that's long story - I am a bit sick you know!). So, X5III does have some issues for some folks, not denying. Here is how I use all of mine DAPs and Headphones: I plug them in turn on shuffle all and walk down the street and a huge Park ( One Tree Hill) with my cheeky Rottweiler Teddy and I forget about all problems of this world, including my personal and trust me I do have a few and just go around with the big grim on my face. There is no issue on any of my players that Music can't tonne down. So, just immerse yourselves and enjoy the sound....

AMEN brother! Really. Seeking perfection is all well and good. But it does not promote internal harmony. From personal experience ...
BTW.. I walk with my little b***ch Rotty, Josie. I use the X5III on shuffle and PM-3. Makes me happy .

 

[AllenWalker]

What about the Onkyo DP-X1A?

I know that it is a Grey import in the UK, but I am seriously considering it now at the £400 price point.

Not sure about Onkyo DP-X1A but I tried the previous model, DP-X1. Build quality is better on Fiio X5iii.

 

[Chris1967]

I have been using the X5III for quite some time now. In fact i was the first to get it in Greece (and Europe) through the official agent www.fiio.gr

I was and am constantly amazed by the sound quality of this DAP.

The issues that i had were always minor and i really think that i must have a different product reading the complaints here.

Just to recap, very few crashes must be less than 10 all in all and with the current firmware the least 1 or 2.

Digital Coaxial out works perfectly and is bit perfect up to 64 DSD that i tested with Chord Mojo and other DACs.

Balanced out has no real world advantage over the single ended, i have a gut feeling that it might be a little more spacious but this i can not say for sure.

It plays beautifully with all my phones including Sennheiser HD800/ HiFiMan HE-500, Ultimate Ears UE-900, RHA T20, and basically anything i have connected it with.

The combination with the A5 (which i also own) is a must if you are going to use large earphones (rather than iem's). The sound is fuller and the midrange is much better.

It is a bit sluggish at times, that is a fact, but it poses no problem for the use intended ie play music.

In combination with my main loudspeaker it sounds fantastic although the stage width is a little narrower than my other dacs including the mojo.

In the end of the day there is nothing in life that is perfect, perfection is an idea only.

I have paid for everything that i got from Fiio normal prices and i am not in anyone's payroll.