[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I wanted to eliminate, as much as possible, the sound waves bouncing inside of the HP1000 cup.

 
Sound waves bouncing inside of the HP1000 cup?!? An open-backed headphone. Love the overactive imaginations around here. Either that or you have the volume turned up to deafening levels. I've heard two different HP-1 and no shouty characteristic in the midrange. But I did hear that in the SR60. Go figure.

 

[devouringone3]

Well he's a modder... these people have their own jargon and always seek to improve things, even if it turns out to be total overkill. I have just bought a HP2 and I have trouble conceiving how it could sound better (with the upgrade from Joseph)... how could someone dislike the sound or how could anything be better.

 

[purrin]

 
Quote:

 
Sound waves bouncing inside of the HP1000 cup?!? An open-backed headphone. Love the overactive imaginations around here. Either that or you have the volume turned up to deafening levels. I've heard two different HP-1 and no shouty characteristic in the midrange. But I did hear that in the SR60. Go figure.

I don't know what I've done to you to warrant such facetious remarks regarding "overactive imaginations" and contempt, e.g. "volume turned up to deafening levels."
 
The cups do have an effect on the sound. It's worse on the SR80s, but still there on the HP1000s, but to a much lesser extent. Here is example of the effects of the internal foam mod on the SR80: http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/105#post_7735041
 
As for mods on the HP1000, the very nature of what I was hearing is indicated on the CSDs in the first post of this thread. There is a little bit of stored energy, probably from the cups, around 2-3kHz between 0.5 and 1.5ms. Pre and post mod measurements were provided.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I hear the midrange shout on the HP1000.  I didn't use to when I owned them years ago, but i've trained my ears since then and it's really bothersome to me now, I had to sell mine.  I heard Purrin's modded HP1000 and the shout was greatly reduced. 

 

[LFF]

Quote:

 
Sound waves bouncing inside of the HP1000 cup?!? An open-backed headphone. Love the overactive imaginations around here. Either that or you have the volume turned up to deafening levels. I've heard two different HP-1 and no shouty characteristic in the midrange. But I did hear that in the SR60. Go figure.

Wow...just because you can't hear doesn't mean it's not there. It's there...most definitely.
 
Overactive imagination...even if that were true it sure beats overactive ignorance. Even the creator...Joe Grado himself has a modification he charges over $1,000 for to reduce this midrange shout. Purrin does this mod, show us how to do it FOR FREE, backs it up with objective measurements (something Joe Grado hasn't done!) and this is the attitude you come up with!?! You should really check yourself and the horse you rode in on.
 

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Anyone have clear pics of the JG upgrade treatment?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Sound waves bouncing inside of the HP1000 cup?!? An open-backed headphone. Love the overactive imaginations around here. Either that or you have the volume turned up to deafening levels. I've heard two different HP-1 and no shouty characteristic in the midrange. But I did hear that in the SR60. Go figure.

Lulz...
 
So did purrin forge those graphs or something...

 

[pcf]

Quote:

Anyone have clear pics of the JG upgrade treatment?

The headphones look the same after the upgrade except all the cable.
As for the midrange shout, I can't recall hearing that on my stock HP10000. The upgrade change more than just the midrange. It brought some openness overall and the bass became leaner and more solid.  I remember bringing my modded HP1i to the bay area meet last year (Purrin and rythmdevils were there too). The gentleman next to our table had a pair of stock HP1 and we compared the two. He thought the modded ones sounded forward and quite different from his one. I have a feeling that he was not impressed. I went home and compared the HP1i to my stock HP2 and agreed with the forwardness opinon but thought the modded version was a noticeable improvement. So, be careful if you are used to sound of your old HP1000, the upgrade might not be what you wanted.
 

 

[devouringone3]

Quote:

The headphones look the same after the upgrade except all the cable.
As for the midrange shout, I can't recall hearing that on my stock HP10000. The upgrade change more than just the midrange. It brought some openness overall and the bass became leaner and more solid.  I remember bringing my modded HP1i to the bay area meet last year (Purrin and rythmdevils were there too). The gentleman next to our table had a pair of stock HP1 and we compared the two. He thought the modded ones sounded forward and quite different from his one. I have a feeling that he was not impressed. I went home and compared the HP1i to my stock HP2 and agreed with the forwardness opinon but thought the modded version was a noticeable improvement. So, be careful if you are used to sound of your old HP1000, the upgrade might not be what you wanted.

Interesting point you brought just here! Thank you because I'm currently weighting this upgrade, if I should do it.
 
Quote:

Wow...just because you can't hear doesn't mean it's not there. It's there...most definitely.
 
Overactive imagination...even if that were true it sure beats overactive ignorance. Even the creator...Joe Grado himself has a modification he charges over $1,000 for to reduce this midrange shout. Purrin does this mod, show us how to do it FOR FREE, backs it up with objective measurements (something Joe Grado hasn't done!) and this is the attitude you come up with!?! You should really check yourself and the horse you rode in on.

 
 
I don't think it was stated anywhere that Joseph's modifications was to cover up for a flaw in his headphone's midrange energy... His main motive was to make it more perfect and detailed to hear better the subtleties in the sound his new microphone could capture.
 
Isn't forwardness, by extension, midrange shoutyness?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
I don't know what I've done to you to warrant such facetious remarks regarding "overactive imaginations" and contempt, e.g. "volume turned up to deafening levels."
 
The cups do have an effect on the sound. It's worse on the SR80s, but still there on the HP1000s, but to a much lesser extent. Here is example of the effects of the internal foam mod on the SR80: http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/105#post_7735041
 
As for mods on the HP1000, the very nature of what I was hearing is indicated on the CSDs in the first post of this thread. There is a little bit of stored energy, probably from the cups, around 2-3kHz between 0.5 and 1.5ms. Pre and post mod measurements were provided.

 
It's more like what you have done to your headphone and how you felt it was imperfect to your standards. I wouldn't call it a sacrilege but this headphone and its sound is still heralded by many around here. The way you complain about midrange shoutyness is also a bit insulting to those who have never heard that and who think their headphone is already perfect the way it is. In that regard and because the HP 1000 is often called a "Holy Grail", (heralded), your thread is being disrespectful to the headphone and the way its creator intended its sound signature to be. Don't take it bad, I genuinely think its good to take action against problems and improve things where we can. It's just that some might consider it as if you had just exhumed your HP1 from its temple.
 
But I kind of admire your guts for that too.

 

[devouringone3]

No we don’t have any pictures, but like pcf said the headphone remain the same when you look at it.
 
Things I have read on forums
-- Magic goo applied to inside of the outer ring of the cup
-- Cleaning
-- Recabling (I couldn’t refind the thread on Head-Fi but it was said in it that Joseph said he had taken the last cable he had left, I have no idea which cable precisely)
-- Double cable recabling (I haven’t seen any pictures or explanation of this, Nik: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428230/my-new-joseph-grado-hp2i)
-- Special driver doping (I have read that somewhere, but I don’t know what doping means)
-- Redrivering (but Joseph said he was out of new old stock drivers, according to a June 7 2009 thread)
-- Specific burning in, to shape up the diaphragm wholly
 
I’m adding, as of very recently (recstar24 heard Joe about it)
-- Refinishing the enclosures to change the porosity of the metal
-- New magic goop formula
-- Still putting new drivers and cables in them
-- New earpad design, modified foam to increase detail output by 400%
 
It’s all of the information I could find gathered in one spot.

 

[Radio_head]

Edit - a little sharp in retrospect.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Thanks for the notes devouringone3.  I don't wish for this to be taken the wrong way but I'm a little concerned about the amount of flowery language associated with the hp1k here.  At the end of the day it's a vintage headphone that does what it does very well - as with any headphone there are trade-offs to getting a certain kind of sound.  I don't think that what Purrin's brought up here is in any way a slight to hp1k owners/fans but rather an objective way of looking at the headphone, it's shortcomings, and a potential and thankfully reversible way to address those shortcomings.
 
In my view there's nothing wrong with what JG offers to hp1k owners at all, it's a very welcome service.  I myself can't justify the cost unfortunately given that the headphones themselves cost as much as said service and in reality retailed for far below the cost of what the service costs today.  The alternative here seems to be a great opportunity without the high cost.

 

[LFF]

 
Quote:

Thanks for the notes devouringone3.  I don't wish for this to be taken the wrong way but I'm a little concerned about the amount of flowery language associated with the hp1k here.  At the end of the day it's a vintage headphone that does what it does very well - as with any headphone there are trade-offs to getting a certain kind of sound.  I don't think that what Purrin's brought up here is in any way a slight to hp1k owners/fans but rather an objective way of looking at the headphone, it's shortcomings, and a potential and thankfully reversible way to address those shortcomings.
 
In my view there's nothing wrong with what JG offers to hp1k owners at all, it's a very welcome service.  I myself can't justify the cost unfortunately given that the headphones themselves cost as much as said service and in reality retailed for far below the cost of what the service costs today.  The alternative here seems to be a great opportunity without the high cost.

Well said....
 

 

[purrin]

        Quote:

It's more like what you have done to your headphone and how you felt it was imperfect to your standards. I wouldn't call it a sacrilege but this headphone and its sound is still heralded by many around here. The way you complain about midrange shoutyness is also a bit insulting to those who have never heard that and who think their headphone is already perfect the way it is. In that regard and because the HP 1000 is often called a "Holy Grail", (heralded), your thread is being disrespectful to the headphone and the way its creator intended its sound signature to be. Don't take it bad, I genuinely think its good to take action against problems and improve things where we can. It's just that some might consider it as if you had just exhumed your HP1 from its temple.
 
But I kind of admire your guts for that too.

It would have made more sense if Beagle had actually owned the HP1000 himself and felt his ego infringed upon because "I desecrated his holy temple." Still no reason for his being a smart-ass.

 As you've said, I'm am experimenter and I like to shape sound in a certain way. If Beagle has a problem with what I'm doing, then he can start a thread on why he feels the HP1000 is perfect.
 
LOL, I've measured more pairs of HP1000's than Beagle's heard (they all measure and sound slightly differently); and I personally know about five times more people who actually own them than the number of pairs he's heard. Us owners have talked about this headphone a lot, and unfortunately in many cases, it does tend to sit in a box as part of a vintage collection rather than being used - because of exactly some of the deficiencies mentioned here. Many people do not want to pay $1300, so was this sort of my way to giving back to the community - that is to some of the guys who I've talked to about the headphone. I perhaps expected "you crazy mofo", but I certainly didn't expect some punk to come in this thread and lay a turd on me. Maybe the former was what Beagle intended to say, but it sure didn't come out that way.
 
In any case, as I've already said, I wanted to throw this out there for those daring enough to undertake the mod and wanting to get some idea of how an HP1000i may sound like. These mods are 100% reversible after all. I had heard pcf's HP1000i, and for the longest time had been considering the $1300 upgrade. Just that I'm a cheapskate on certain things. IMO, this set of mods does sound similar - although this is from memory and I could be talking out of my ass. One thing I realized - I forgot to mention the effects of the dynamat. The two mods (foam lining inside the cup and especially the dynamat on the driver) do exactly what pcf described. It does the following: 1) as mentioned above - cleans out some mid-midrange resonances (which some people hear and others don't); 2) leans out the bass a little bit (actually reduces 2nd order harmonic distortion in the bass - sorry no graphs yet); 3) opens it up, and really brings out a lot of low level detail, - I dare say close to the level of the HD800 or LCD3.
 
I've got several simultaneous projects and threads I need to follow up on, but I'll catch up to this one later with detailed step-by-step procedures of this mod.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

 
Quote:
 
 
I don't think it was stated anywhere that Joseph's modifications was to cover up for a flaw in his headphone's midrange energy... His main motive was to make it more perfect and detailed to hear better the subtleties in the sound his new microphone could capture.
 
Isn't forwardness, by extension, midrange shoutyness?
 

 
It's more like what you have done to your headphone and how you felt it was imperfect to your standards. I wouldn't call it a sacrilege but this headphone and its sound is still heralded by many around here. The way you complain about midrange shoutyness is also a bit insulting to those who hve never heard that and who think their headphone is already perfect the way it is. In that regard and because the HP 1000 is often called a "Holy Grail", (heralded), your thread is being disrespectful to the headphone and the way its creator intended its sound signature. Don't take it bad, I genuinely think its good to take action against problems and improve things when we can. It's just that some might consider it as if you had just exhumed your HP1 from its temple.
 
But I kind of admire your guts for that too.

The fact that you feel personally insulted when someone points out flaws in the headphone you like suggests that you may be experiencing attachment issues with your headphones. 
 
The measurements posted in the beginning of this thread show that they are not perfect.