L0rdGwyn's DIY Audio
Dec 16, 2019 at 2:22 PM Post #31 of 6,808
Dec 16, 2019 at 2:47 PM Post #32 of 6,808
The cascode mosfet CCS that K&K sells uses the IXTP01N100D as the top device and a DN2540 as the bottom device. Using those devices in a cascode you get massive PSRR and AC impedance (up to 500Mohm or more at low frequencies!). Take the Mu output off of that board and you get very low Zout as well :o2smile:

Edit: I should specify that you want to get the kit with the IXTP01N100D and DN2540 from K&K as it has the best performance. They also sell kits with the IXTP08N100, or only DN2540's, but those kits don't give as good of performance. IXTP01N100D or IXCP10M45S as the top device gives better performance.

And this should get you close to the needed current set resistor:
DN2540-CCS.png
 
Dec 16, 2019 at 3:03 PM Post #33 of 6,808
Thanks for the link and the graph @A2029 , really appreciate it. For 6mA, looks like ~330ohm, we'll see how close it is with the variable resistor.

Coffee is done, time for LTSpice training. Since I will be using some pretty expensive components in this build, I had originally planned to do a mock up of the power supply and circuit using inexpensive parts (cheap electrolytics, dummy load resistors, etc.). If LTSpice is very accurate, I wonder if I can skip that I buy the parts I will actually be using for the build. Even if I had to change out one or two boutique passive components, would still likely cost less than getting everything I would need for the prototype. Will have to give it some thought, opinions are welcome.
 
Dec 16, 2019 at 4:13 PM Post #34 of 6,808
If you can input all of the critical parameters into the LTspice model, the end product build should reflect what is simulated to a large degree. I usually don't breadboard my builds as long as I'm confident in the schematic and modeling. One of the main things to keep in mind is the engineers perspective: Add a safety margin on to any part rating. If you calculate a resistor will be dissipating 1 watt, get a 2-3 watt resistor minimum. If a capacitor is expected to see a max of 15V, get a capacitor rated 20+ volts, etc. Also, use diodes to protect against reverse voltage.
 
Dec 16, 2019 at 4:26 PM Post #35 of 6,808
Now the amplifier circuit. Here is the schematic:



Potentiometer:
This will be a 25K Goldpoint stepped attenuator. The volume pot acts as a voltage divider between the driver tube grid and ground. That means turning up the volume pot will increase the resistance between the input signal and ground, so more signal is sent to the driver tube grid, resulting in increased signal and volume. Turning down the volume pot decreases the resistance between the input signal and ground, so more of your input signal goes to ground and your volume decreases. With the volume set to 0, all of the signal is lost to ground.

Input stage:
It will feature my new favorite tube, the MH4 and its cousins. It will be cathode biased, also known as auto-biased. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, this will alow the tube to find its own bias point based on the value of the cathode bias resistor and allows the tube to maintain that bias point as it ages. This biasing scheme requires a cathode resistor bypass capacitor, which acts as a high-pass filter, among other things. The value is appropriately high to allow all audible low frequencies to pass. This will be an Audio Note Kaisei electrolytic. The 56kohm resistor on the plate is known as, you guessed it, the plate resistor :) this acts as the load for the tube and is usually 2-3 times the internal resistance of the tube. From experimenting with GOTL modifications, I have found that changing this resistor has a very audible effect on the sound. I will be using discontinued Japanese Riken carbon composition resistors on the MH4 plates, considered by many to be the best sounding resistors made.

I am going to briefly explain how the bias point is chosen for the input tube using "load lines". Below is the current vs. voltage operating characteristics of the tube with the load line drawn in red. The far right point of the line represents the maximum voltage across the tube, equal to the high voltage B++. The far left line point represents the current flowing across the 56kohm plate resistor with zero voltage across the tube. This load line tells us the plate current for any given voltage on the tube and our bias point will be on this line. The curved lines on the graph represent the grid voltage, and the grid voltage at our desired bias point will determine the value of our cathode bias resistor.

For the input tube, we want to choose a linear point on the load line, meaning we want to choose a point on the load line where the distance to the next nearest grid voltage line on both sides is about equal. The tube will swing along the line right to left with the positive and negative AC input signal.

I chose to bias the MH4 with -3V on the grid, which corresponds with 145V on the plate, a plate current of about 1.75mA, and a cathode bias resistor of 2kohm. This is the green dot on the load line. I may adjust this in the final build to a grid voltage of -2.5 or -2 depending on the distortion measurements.



The input stage is coupled to the output stage via a Jupiter copper foil 0.47uF 630VC capacitor. This allows only the AC output signal to pass and blocks the 145V DC from the MH4 plate. If that DC current reached the grid of the next tube, it would "red plate" and burn up!!!

Output stage:
The output stage of this amp will feature various pentode and beam tetrode power tubes as strapped triodes. This includes EL34, KT66, 6L6G, KT77, and the possibility of others. A Goldpoint selector switch will be used to change the cathode bias resistor for the optimal bias point for each tube. The switch has six possible positions, so I can add resistors for two more tubes later if I please :ksc75smile: in reality, these tubes could probably all be used with the bias optimized for one tube and no switch. Rarely are headphones going to require enough power to push the tubes to significant distortion at an unoptimal bias point, this is much more important for higher power uses like speakers.

But screw that!!! I will optimize the bias of each tube and choose the appropriate resistor. Audio Note Kaisei will be used again for the bypass capacitor. For strapped triode mode, the screen grid is connected to the plate via a 100ohm resistor and the suppressor grid is connected directly to the cathode (in beam tetrodes, this is an internal connection as there is no true suppressor grid, the suppressor grid is actually generated by the beam of electrons flowing through the tube!!! Very cool, look it up).

Using our load lines again, we can choose the bias point for the power tubes. However, it is a bit of a different process since we do not have a plate resistor acting as the load for the tube, the AC load is the impedance of the primary winding of the output transformer, 4.6kohm. Also, the primary winding has a very low DC resistance, so the plate of the power tube essentially sees the entire 250VDC B+.

Like the input tube, we can draw our load line with the full B+ voltage on the right and the maximum plate current on the left, the blue line on the graph. But our true operating point is not on this line! We cannot choose the plate voltage since there is no plate resistor, the plate voltage is FIXED as the B+ of 250V. If we operated the tube here, the bias point would be the far right of the load line, there would be no place for half of our input signal to go and it would be lost.

So, we have to draw additional load lines at the same slope as our initial line, up to but not exceeding the large curve at the top of the graph. This is the maximum plate dissipation of the tube. If we exceed this line with our operating point on the load line, the tube will melt. We want to choose a load line that is below the maximum plate dissipation and allows for maximal left and right excursion along the load line. The upper limit on the right side of the line this time around is where the grid curves start to get squished, which will cause significant 2nd harmonic distortion. The leftmost limit is the grid voltage where the grid will begin to draw current, which is BAD. By maximizing the equal left to right swing across the load line, which are getting the most peak-to-peak voltage out of the power stage, which means more POWER!

I will have to redo my bias points since I made changes to the power supply, but for the sake of example, here is where I might choose the bias point of the EL34, green dot on the red load line. This point represents 250V on the plate, 85mA plate current, a grid voltage of about -14V, and a cathode bias resistor value of ~165ohm. This will be done for each power tube to find the correct cathode bias resistor value for the switch.

Doing some quick math, at this bias point, this gives us roughly a peak-to-peak voltage of 220V, which is about 77VRMS, which means about 1.3W of undistorted output power. If I were to push the output tubes closer to the max plate dissipation, could get something like 2.5W out of them with this output transformer. Either way, it is way overkill. The tubes will live a longer life at this bias point and a power output of 1.3W.



Okay, wrapping this up, the output transformer will be a Lundahl LL2765 with a 4.6kohm primary and a 32ohm secondary winding, which will be the output impedance of the amp.

Well there you have it, the amplifier circuit. I know that is technically dense, but hopefully somewhat interesting.

Next step will be building the parts list and prototyping this bad boy!!!

BTW, this is still new to me, so please if Glenn or anyone else spots an error feel free to let me know :)



You sir, have been busy!

Take your time and have fun with it.

This is going to be a nice thread.
 
Dec 16, 2019 at 4:40 PM Post #36 of 6,808
If you can input all of the critical parameters into the LTspice model, the end product build should reflect what is simulated to a large degree. I usually don't breadboard my builds as long as I'm confident in the schematic and modeling. One of the main things to keep in mind is the engineers perspective: Add a safety margin on to any part rating. If you calculate a resistor will be dissipating 1 watt, get a 2-3 watt resistor minimum. If a capacitor is expected to see a max of 15V, get a capacitor rated 20+ volts, etc. Also, use diodes to protect against reverse voltage.

Thanks, everything in the schematics has been overspec'd with that goal in mind. If I could avoid breadboarding and instead devote that time to developing a very accurate LTSpice model, that would definitely be preferrable. I am going to work toward that goal.

Edit: wow just found out someone created a MH4 LTSpice model, I figured there was no chance of that. Nice!!!
 
Last edited:
Dec 17, 2019 at 2:59 AM Post #37 of 6,808
Think I've reached a good stopping point on LTSpice, been at it for hours. This program is dense, tons of functionality, just barely scratched the surface. But the circuit is functional with a few caveats. Not sure how to simulate a CCS, will have to work on it tomorrow, guessing I will have to build out the circuit or a similar one completely. As a substitute, I cheated and used a magic 360VDC voltage source with a 28kohm resistive load and a 6mA bias point. Not the same obviously, but the best I can do for now :)

I was able to find a DIYer who created a Excel macro that generated transformer models based on the manufacturer specifications put into the spreadsheet. REALLY cool and handy. Obviously not going to be exact as they are very complicated to model accurately, just looking for an estimation. I created a tube rectifier symbol and used a 5U4G as an appoximation to my U18/20 I will be using. There might be a better rectifier model out there, just a placeholder for now. Was very lucky someone created an MH4 model years ago, as well as a EL34 triode.

Here is the circuit in LTSpice.

LTSpice Circuit.png

Trying to look at a ballpark headphone listening output, used 135mV peak input, which gives a 2.14Vrms output corresponding to a power output of around 1mW into 32ohms.

THD is 0.95%. Here is the FFT, mostly second harmonic, as you might expect.

FFT.png

Have to get that CCS up and running then try to optimize this thing :ksc75smile: tons more to learn in this program.
 
Last edited:
Dec 17, 2019 at 3:16 AM Post #38 of 6,808
Think I've reached a good stopping point on LTSpice, been at it for hours. This program is dense, tons of functionality, just barely scratched the surface. But the circuit is functional with a few caveats. Not sure how to simulate a CCS, will have to work on it tomorrow, guessing I will have to build out the circuit or a similar one completely. As a substitute, I cheated and used a magic 360VDC voltage source with a 28kohm resistive load and a 6mA bias point. Not the same obviously, but the best I can do for now :)

I was able to find a DIYer who created a Excel macro that generated transformer models based on the manufacturer specifications put into the spreadsheet. REALLY cool and handy. Obviously not going to be exact as they are very complicated to model accurately, just looking for an estimation. I created a tube rectifier symbol and used a 5U4G as an appoximation to my U18/20 I will be using. There might be a better rectifier model out there, just a placeholder for now. Was very lucky someone created an MH4 model years ago, as well as a EL34 triode.

Here is the circuit in LTSpice.



Trying to look at a ballpark headphone listening output, used 135mV peak input, which gives a 2.14Vrms output corresponding to a power output of around 1mW into 32ohms.

THD is 0.95%. Here is the FFT, mostly second harmonic, as you might expect.



Have to get that CCS up and running then try to optimize this thing :ksc75smile: tons more to learn in this program.

Yo,when you can,can you please repeat that all in English?!?
Kidding aside,im really looking forward to how this amp ends up.
 
Dec 17, 2019 at 11:35 AM Post #39 of 6,808
Yo,when you can,can you please repeat that all in English?!?
Kidding aside,im really looking forward to how this amp ends up.

Haha of course! Sorry, I have been living in technical jargon land for too long.

This program called LTSpice is used to build models of electrical circuits. It's really handy since you can get a ton of information on the quality of the circuits you plan to build and the sound they will produce. A whole crew of DIY tube amp builders have used the data from tube datasheets to create accurate models of specific tubes so they can be used in the program to test tube circuits. So what I've done is built the circuit of the amp using those tube models. It is pretty accurate as to what the final circuit is going to be as of right now, except I haven't figured out how to add a component called a "constant current source". Constant current sources are sometimes used on the plates of vacuum tubes to allow tubes to operate at a more linear point and signifcantly reduce distortion. I am planning to use them on the plates of the MH4 driver tubes to improve linearity and reduce distortion to get better sound out of the amp :) Glenn uses them on the plates of the driver EL3N tubes in the GEL3N. Also, the Speedball of the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball is a constant current source. They can significantly improve the sound of an amp.

The green graph above is a plot called a Fourier transform. With some uber math, the program takes the signal in the amp and changes it from voltage vs time to amplitude vs frequency. Long story short, it shows you the distortion characteristics of the amp. The biggest spike is the signal I put into the amp at 1kHz, which is the most common test tone used for looking at distortion. The shorter prominent spikes to the right of the big spike are the harmonics, as in harmonic distortion. In harmonic distortion, the input signal is multiplied x2, x3, x4, etc. and this gets added to the output. Here we are just looking at the test tone of 1kHz, but the same applies for the music that goes into and out of the amp, these harmonics will be added at multiples of the input frequencies from 20Hz-20kHz. The height of each spike gives you an idea of how much of each harmonic will be in the amp, at least at 1kHz, it will be different for different frequencies. For instance, there might be more or less harmonic distortion at 5kHz, but people usually use 1kHz for the sake of testing.

Single-ended triode amplifiers typically have most of their distortion as second-harmonic distortion, seen on the graph as a the large second spike at 2kHz to the right of the input tone. Second harmonic distortion is known for being easy on the ear, even pleasing to the ear, likely much of the reason we enjoy our tube amps :) so the way I have the circuit set up right now, most of the distortion generated on the output of the amp will be second-harmonic. I can now make adjustmentments and changes to the bias points of the tubes and components of the power supply in LTSpice to try and reduce the distortion and noise even further without actually having to build the amp yet, which is why LTSpice is such a powerful tool!

Anyway, hope that helps. From now on I'll do a follow-up explanation every time I start rambling lol. If anyone else is looking for an explanation for anything else I've posted, please let me know.
 
Last edited:
Dec 17, 2019 at 1:52 PM Post #40 of 6,808
Haha of course! Sorry, I have been living in technical jargon land for too long.

This program called LTSpice is used to build models of electrical circuits. It's really handy since you can get a ton of information on the quality of the circuits you plan to build and the sound they will produce. A whole crew of DIY tube amp builders have used the data from tube datasheets to create accurate models of specific tubes so they can be used in the program to test tube circuits. So what I've done is built the circuit of the amp using those tube models. It is pretty accurate as to what the final circuit is going to be as of right now, except I haven't figured out how to add a component called a "constant current source". Constant current sources are sometimes used on the plates of vacuum tubes to allow tubes to operate at a more linear point and signifcantly reduce distortion. I am planning to use them on the plates of the MH4 driver tubes to improve linearity and reduce distortion to get better sound out of the amp :) Glenn uses them on the plates of the driver EL3N tubes in the GEL3N. Also, the Speedball of the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball is a constant current source. They can significantly improve the sound of an amp.

The green graph above is a plot called a Fourier transform. With some uber math, the program takes the signal in the amp and changes it from voltage vs time to amplitude vs frequency. Long story short, it shows you the distortion characteristics of the amp. The biggest spike is the signal I put into the amp at 1kHz, which is the most common test tone used for looking at distortion. The shorter prominent spikes to the right of the big spike are the harmonics, as in harmonic distortion. In harmonic distortion, the input signal is multiplied x2, x3, x4, etc. and this gets added to the output. Here we are just looking at the test tone of 1kHz, but the same applies for the music that goes into and out of the amp, these harmonics will be added at multiples of the input frequencies from 20Hz-20kHz. The height of each spike gives you an idea of how much of each harmonic will be in the amp, at least at 1kHz, it will be different for different frequencies. For instance, there might be more or less harmonic distortion at 5kHz, but people usually use 1kHz for the sake of testing.

Single-ended triode amplifiers typically have most of their distortion as second-harmonic distortion, seen on the graph as a the large second spike at 2kHz to the right of the input tone. Second harmonic distortion is known for being easy on the ear, even pleasing to the ear, likely much of the reason we enjoy our tube amps :) so the way I have the circuit set up right now, most of the distortion generated on the output of the amp will be second-harmonic. I can now make adjustmentments and changes to the bias points of the tubes and components of the power supply in LTSpice to try and reduce the distortion and noise even further without actually having to build the amp yet, which is why LTSpice is such a powerful tool!

Anyway, hope that helps. From now on I'll do a follow-up explanation every time I start rambling lol. If anyone else is looking for an explanation for anything else I've posted, please let me know.

Here ya go for the CCS model: https://easyupload.io/7n23g4
 
Dec 17, 2019 at 2:14 PM Post #41 of 6,808
Here ya go for the CCS model: https://easyupload.io/7n23g4

You are the man! I actually had just finished adding the models for the two MOSFETs to my library, now I can just copy and paste your schematic, thanks :) I'll post some results to compare to my distortion measurements above. Gonna try 330ohm for the current limiting resistor first based on the DN2540 plot you posted.
 
Last edited:
Dec 17, 2019 at 7:33 PM Post #42 of 6,808
Been doing some more playing around in LTSpice today, tweaking the bias points and running simulations to measure THD.

I changed the load to 300ohms since I typically listen to ZMFs or Sennheisers which cut my distortion numbers in half. I also set up the signal input to get 1mW into 300ohms, which would be a very high listening volume. The constant current source is up and running, putting 6mA on the plates of the MH4. With that set and up where I have the tubes biased, the input stage by itself is putting out around 0.18% THD at 1kHz. The floor of the distortion appears to be set by the output stage. Messing around with the bias point of the EL34, I am getting anywhere from 0.4-0.6% THD out of the amp at 1mW into 300ohms, again mostly second harmonic. I'm not exactly sure what would be an excellent THD figure for a single-ended triode headphone amp, but there isn't much tweaking to do other than rebiasing since it is a pretty conventional SET output stage.

One other thing I've noticed is the tube models do not seem to follow the datasheet curves, at least not exactly, or there is some other variable I am overlooking. For instance, based on the datasheet, as I move the bias of the EL34 to what should be a more linear operating point (for example, moving to a plate voltage of 260V rather than 310V), I end up getting more distortion on the output, a difference of say 0.1%. The model seems to think they are happier at a higher plate voltage and lower plate current, for example 320V and 47mA, whereas Mullard thinks they should be getting around 250V and 70mA. So who do I trust, Mullard or LTSpice? Not sure what to make of it yet.

Here is a FFT where I currently have the tubes biased in the model, also lowered the resevoir cap in the power supply to 1uF to decrease the B+ for the EL34.

MH4:
Plate current = 6mA
Plate voltage = 127V
Grid voltage = -3V

EL34:
Plate current = 70mA
Plate voltage = 285V
Grid voltage = -17V

THD = 0.48%

Untitled.png
 
Dec 17, 2019 at 7:41 PM Post #43 of 6,808
If I understand correctly, the LTSpice does the math once you input the numbers and then shows the distortion as a graph as well?
Is there any correlation between the values the program comes up with and how it is going to sound?
Or is it trial and error once you settle on a certain schematic and build it?
 
Dec 17, 2019 at 8:02 PM Post #44 of 6,808
If I understand correctly, the LTSpice does the math once you input the numbers and then shows the distortion as a graph as well?
Is there any correlation between the values the program comes up with and how it is going to sound?
Or is it trial and error once you settle on a certain schematic and build it?

Hey mordy - yes that's right, once you build the circuit and do all of the setup, set the bias points, etc. then you can run a simulation that will tell you the distortion measurements as well as output the graph. There is a lot more information that can be gleaned from this program, but I am only getting started :)

Yes, there definitely is a correlation. Generally less distortion is better. If we do have distortion, even order harmonic distoriton (2, 4, 6, etc.) is better than odd order harmonics (3, 5, 7, etc.). The distortion in this type of amp is mostly going to be second-harmonic.

The other thing we want to minimize is power supply noise. The driver tubes will be isolated from it due to the constant current source plate load, but the power tubes will be prone. I will likely be making some changes to the power supply components to add additional filtering. May look into getting some custom chokes wound that will improve the performance of the power supply and have a higher maximum current rating.

There is some trial and error involved, but using the curves from the tube datasheets will get you into the ballpark for where the tube should be operating.
 
Dec 17, 2019 at 9:28 PM Post #45 of 6,808
The model seems to think they are happier at a higher plate voltage and lower plate current, for example 320V and 47mA, whereas Mullard thinks they should be getting around 250V and 70mA. So who do I trust, Mullard or LTSpice? Not sure what to make of it yet.

Don't put much trust into either the datasheet or LTSpice sim. LTSpice models are usually not perfect. Tubes also vary tube by tube, and brand by brand. You can really only measure differences in distortion well when the whole circuit is put together and the amp output directly measured. In general, running higher voltage (and lower current) operating points on triode strapped pentodes/tetrodes will give you higher output power overall, but slightly greater distortion. But again, this can vary by tube... :deadhorse: The higher distortion at higher voltage operating points can be compensated to some degree by using output transformers with higher primary impedance (however, higher primary impedance means lower max output power, so always tradeoffs).
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top