[techboy]

Hi there.

I currently have:

Nobsound TDA1387 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881225029.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dwVvgWe

Ideally I’m looking for an upgrade with a similar type of sound, but better all around. So looking for something with coaxial and something that’s not USB powered. I’m assuming that will give better sound.

I have shortlisted 4 DACs.

Option 1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-List...sh=item3f8a58e99f:g:9GYAAOSwvApZ8z6m#rpdCntId

Option 2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished...599235?hash=item3f9ac5e183:g:PPkAAOSwRyda4Z0O

Option 3 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/L1387Sol...020388?hash=item3f9afa1564:g:gkgAAOSwQiJfCHYm

Option 4 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Non-Over...246028&hash=item2eccc3cf23:g:3kIAAMXQVT9Sq1xa

What do you recommend and why?

Happy with what I have now. But looking for something even sweeter, more musical, more lively, more 3D. And so on.

Setup:

HD 650
Project Ember Headphone Amp designed by solderdude

Aakshey Talwar

P.S. I already have the Mimby and prefer Nobsound it it. I have also tried very expensive DS DACs and don’t like them one bit.

 

[CopperFox]

Options 1 and 2, since they list higher output voltage (2.2v and 3.2v) vs the 1.5 that is on option 3 and the nobsound. AFAIK that should make the sound "better all around".

I read somewhere that TDA1387 is newer and better than TDA1543. Haven't heard either though.

Edit: fixed option numbers.

 

[CopperFox]

There also seems to be an "A" version of option 3 that is specified with higher voltage output --> https://www.ebay.com/itm/272781906180

 

[techboy]

There also seems to be an "A" version of option 3 that is specified with higher voltage output --> https://www.ebay.com/itm/272781906180

That doesn't ship to India.

 

[sajunky]

Audio GD R2R11. Yes, I know from the diyaudio forum that you can't afford it, but maybe check for sale section of the forum, it should be around $250.

Unfortunately none of these cheap Chineese DACs bring quality to a higher level comparing to a Nobsound. All of them require DIY tweaking to sound better and only the last one seems to be NOS.

I strongly disagree with the other recommendation. A choice should not be made based on a higher output level. These models use very primitive active output stage with cheap or fake opamps. A passive output is better solution for these non-expensive products.

Interesting is comparison of Nobsound with Mimby. While Mimby gives just a hint of R2R sound, TDA1387 implementations are much better in this respect. A sound is coherent in terms of both harmonics and timing, acoustic instruments sound real, reverbations of a decay are preserved and there is no listening fatigue. On the downside, Nobsound use a basic oversampling interface chip, it lacks of real natural punch and resolution is average. Only higher priced products can deliver these qualities.

I do carry Nobsound on the road with a wired HD 4.50 BTNC (NC or Bluetooth only occasionally) and Audio GD R2R11 on my desktop with HD600. Not going to replace anything at the moment.

 

[CopperFox]

Audio GD R2R11. Yes, I know from the diyaudio forum that you can't afford it, but maybe check for sale section of the forum, it should be around $250.

Unfortunately none of these cheap Chineese DACs bring quality to a higher level comparing to a Nobsound. All of them require DIY tweaking to sound better and only the last one seems to be NOS.

I strongly disagree with the other recommendation. A choice should not be made based on a higher output level. These models use very primitive active output stage with cheap or fake opamps. A passive output is better solution for these non-expensive products.

You have purchased a large amount of these products and determined both the genuity and sound quality of their individual components?
In any case, opamps are not expensive nor particularly difficult to replace.


Edit: The schematic for that particular product does not include opamps and I don't see too many on the PCB either.

 

[CopperFox]

That doesn't ship to India.

With the Ebay search term " L1387A 8X" there seems to be four listings of the same product and some of those do ship to India.

 

[techboy]

I have shortlisted and almost decided upon the Phi Hex DIY DAC.

 

[techboy]

Audio GD R2R11. Yes, I know from the diyaudio forum that you can't afford it, but maybe check for sale section of the forum, it should be around $250.

Unfortunately none of these cheap Chineese DACs bring quality to a higher level comparing to a Nobsound. All of them require DIY tweaking to sound better and only the last one seems to be NOS.

I strongly disagree with the other recommendation. A choice should not be made based on a higher output level. These models use very primitive active output stage with cheap or fake opamps. A passive output is better solution for these non-expensive products.

Interesting is comparison of Nobsound with Mimby. While Mimby gives just a hint of R2R sound, TDA1387 implementations are much better in this respect. A sound is coherent in terms of both harmonics and timing, acoustic instruments sound real, reverbations of a decay are preserved and there is no listening fatigue. On the downside, Nobsound use a basic oversampling interface chip, it lacks of real natural punch and resolution is average. Only higher priced products can deliver these qualities.

I do carry Nobsound on the road with a wired HD 4.50 BTNC (NC or Bluetooth only occasionally) and Audio GD R2R11 on my desktop with HD600. Not going to replace anything at the moment.

I have shortlisted and almost decided upon the Phi Hex DIY DAC.
Have you tried that?

 

[sajunky]

I have shortlisted and almost decided upon the Phi Hex DIY DAC.
Have you tried that?

I was going to order more expensive kit from the same developer, but lockdown halted this development. Then I found Audio GD R2R11 second hand. I am sure you will be happy from PhiDAC Hex. Nothing on your list can match it. Remember to post impressions.

 

[techboy]

I was going to order more expensive kit from the same developer, but lockdown halted this development. Then I found Audio GD R2R11 second hand. I am sure you will be happy from PhiDAC Hex. Nothing on your list can match it. Remember to post impressions.

Great. What do you recommend? 3rd order or 7th order filter? I like a crisp lively sound with crisp transients and sweet midrange with lush highs.

 

[sajunky]

Most of commercial R2R DACs (including Audio GD, Denafrips) come with first order analog filter. In this project a basic filter is 3rd order and include compensation for a typical NOS 3dB drop at 20kHz. Not my preference, as such compensation create overshots for a pulse response, With a simple RC filter it won't happen, but it is not my project.

I don't care about filter (it doesn't affect our ears) but without filtering intermodulation distortions can be created on our amps/speakers. Then is a problem. In such case I can always upsample in Foobar to 88.2kHz or more (SoX plugin do it the best) and imaging problem disappear. In other words, save money on filters.

 

[]eep]

I like none of them. I wouldn't choose any of them for myself nor recommend to a friend. Not even a good basis for modifications. Like the Nobsound 1387 the usb inputs are to cheap. All PCM 27xx. You should look for an xmos or tenor input. And opamps for i/v is just stupid. Use passive with minimal filtering. The less, the better it sounds. I have modified dozens of output stages. R2R is simple, thats one reason it sounds so good. Just short the output with a right value R (= basic I /V) and you are good to go. Filtering is for cowards (thats the jist of a looong story). If you are afraid of a little DC - offset, use some good quality caps (10uF @ $10/pc). That would be my recommandation to save you a lot of money: look at your nobsound, near the output in the corner. There are 2 upright blue elcos. Get rid of them. That is the main reason for the veiled sound.

And if you want a really good, well made, basic NOS dac with good components, buy what i have: Teradak.

 

[sajunky]

@]eep.
Opamps in PhiDAC Hex projects are not normal circuits. They are forced into class A, I hope you notice it now. Secondly, filter is a part of I/F conversion, just look where is a final load of a DAC. Quite interesting project and the guy always do listening tests. But yes, a good USB bridge is essential to get 196kHz NOS operation. It is still 16-bit (as TDA1387 is), it will ignore LSB bits in 24-bit stream.

 

[]eep]

Sorry, but i didn't understand much of what you mean. Im not an electrotechnical engineer, so I work empirically and try to understand what is happening, reverse engineer and re-engineer. So I never learned to think inside any box. Those old Philips r2r dacs deliver plenty of V by themselves and what I learned by modifying hands on is; all i need is the right R over the output. If you want to discuss the how and why then I get easily bored and lose interest. I know most education is geared to produce docile workers who follow the rules, not creative designers.

For a dac the most important input for music is the usb-input. If you still play cd's or use your tv as source, optical is usefull (i even have to use a toslink switch). But usb is deciding for HD sound quality. Then the dac itself and then the often underestimated output. Some seem to think that opamps are mandatory. They only know how to filter via the feedback loop or something. I've also seen 3 opamps after 2 big resistors after tda1543x8 that deliver a healthy 3V output without any need for any of that crap. Removing it brought a sigh of relief. And another cheap 4xTDA with passive 1st order filtering that sounded very dull, although with potential.

The TDA1543 can do 24-96, (192, depending on the usb input chip). Thats why I bought the Teradak. Good input, decent power supply (dep on version) and easy to modify (if you want) passive no frills output. Price is around 150. Best dac I ever heard until a few hears ago regardless of price. Last show I went to was disappointing dispite the 100k price (or maybe McIntosh and Naim are overrated).
Now there are undoubtedly better ones but I don't have anyone i can compare with or b&m stores I can go to (my old dealer closed his shop due to pension and declining business),tbe shop where that last show took place is too far away and too exclusive (as if they can smell im not gonna buy there. Snobs). Soon I can report on the Denafrips Ares II.