[abvolt]

  Hmmm I think most of the 12AU7s are expected to last somewhere between 5,000-10,000 hour mark but quite possibly more towards the top-end for the military tubes like the CV4003s.  It might be a bit of an unknown at the moment since we're using them in a slightly different application in the tube power-supply.
 
Best of luck with the Tung-Sol auction - I agree with mjock - I think you will have some fantastic tubes on your hands.  It makes me wonder how much the Russian re-issues managed to recreate their sound - or if they perhaps sound entirely different.  They were brilliant for the money (big, clear, crisp and musical) but my bet would be that the original NOS will be far better - as usual!  My listening with the US tubes from the '50s has been the best of the bunch and a really nice contrast to the Mullards/Philips sound.

 
Thanks Jeb I'm sure I read that somewhere but have forgotten how long a set of tubes last, that's really not too bad considering we can get say 3-6 years of enjoyment out of them, now I don't feel bad about getting that extra set of my favorite mullards Lol.. 

 

[abvolt]

just s friendly bump this thread needs to stay active  it's really the best place for all things tubes for our wa7/tp's ..

 

[kyle1010]

Hmmm I think most of the 12AU7s are expected to last somewhere between 5,000-10,000 hour mark but quite possibly more towards the top-end for the military tubes like the CV4003s.  It might be a bit of an unknown at the moment since we're using them in a slightly different application in the tube power-supply.

Best of luck with the Tung-Sol auction - I agree with mjock - I think you will have some fantastic tubes on your hands.  It makes me wonder how much the Russian re-issues managed to recreate their sound - or if they perhaps sound entirely different.  They were brilliant for the money (big, clear, crisp and musical) but my bet would be that the original NOS will be far better - as usual!  My listening with the US tubes from the '50s has been the best of the bunch and a really nice contrast to the Mullards/Philips sound.

Hey Jeb..I'm really interested in the Philips ECC82s. Are the non Valvo branded ones the same thing? I can find German Valvo branded ECC82s but idk if those are the Philips ones you used in your review. So confusing!

 

[Jeb Listens]

Hey Jeb..I'm really interested in the Philips ECC82s. Are the non Valvo branded ones the same thing? I can find German Valvo branded ECC82s but idk if those are the Philips ones you used in your review. So confusing!

Kyle - it is confusing!  
 
Valvo became a subsidiary company of Philips in the '30s and had their factory in Hamburg producing tubes for sale within Germany labelled "Valvo".  In addition you also have Philips producing tubes at their many European plants which were then labelled "Valvo" for sale in Germany.  So there are German made Valvo ECC82s as well as Dutch made Valvo ECC82s.  
 
So In answer to your question:  I haven't heard any German-produced Valvo ECC82s and although they might be excellent tubes in their own right,  sonically I don't think they should be considered the same as those I reviewed that came out of the Philips Heerlen plant in Holland in the 1960s, since it is generally said those have a rather unique sound signature.  
 
Therefore I think the crucial part is where they came from rather than what label is on the front.  i.e. that they were ECC82s made in Heerlen, Holland, by Philips in the 1960s, with the grey ladder plates.  This can be verified by looking for the Heerlen factory code which is a little right-angled triangle symbol (see pic below, not to be confused with the Copenhagen symbol).  As long as it has this factory code symbol then I don't think it matters which brand is on the front.  If it was destined to be sold in Germany it would have "Valvo",  "Amperex" in the US.  Also could just be labelled "Philips" or "Philips Miniwatt",  "Hewlett Packard",  and many others!  
 
The downside is that since these tubes are pretty old, the codes on the tubes are often in poor shape, almost gone so can be difficult to identify.  Generally, the factory codes are what to trust and verify rather than any labels that might say "Made in Holland" on the front, unless the seller really knows their stuff and has a good reputation.
 
Hopefully you can lay your hands on some of these - they are in the top 3 for me and one of my absolute favourites:  creamy and lush with generous liquid bass whilst also retaining a good amount of detail throughout so the sound never seems slack or veiled.  Tubey!   They are quite popular now but still plenty around I would still expect you to be able to land a pair for well under $100.  If you search for "Philips Holland made ECC82s"  or "Heerlen ECC82" that should get you started.   Let me know how you get on! 
 
 

 
 

 

[kyle1010]

Kyle - it is confusing!  

Valvo became a subsidiary company of Philips in the '30s and had their factory in Hamburg producing tubes for sale within Germany labelled "Valvo".  In addition you also have Philips producing tubes at their many European plants which were then labelled "Valvo" for sale in Germany.  So there are German made Valvo ECC82s as well as Dutch made Valvo ECC82s.  

So In answer to your question:  I haven't heard any German-produced Valvo ECC82s and although they might be excellent tubes in their own right,  sonically I don't think they should be considered the same as those I reviewed that came out of the Philips Heerlen plant in Holland in the 1960s, since it is generally said those have a rather unique sound signature.  

Therefore I think the crucial part is where they came from rather than what label is on the front.  i.e. that they were ECC82s made in Heerlen, Holland, by Philips in the 1960s, with the grey ladder plates.  This can be verified by looking for the Heerlen factory code which is a little right-angled triangle symbol (see pic below, not to be confused with the Copenhagen symbol).  As long as it has this factory code symbol then I don't think it matters which brand is on the front.  If it was destined to be sold in Germany it would have "Valvo",  "Amperex" in the US.  Also could just be labelled "Philips" or "Philips Miniwatt",  "Hewlett Packard",  and many others!  

The downside is that since these tubes are pretty old, the codes on the tubes are often in poor shape, almost gone so can be difficult to identify.  Generally, the factory codes are what to trust and verify rather than any labels that might say "Made in Holland" on the front, unless the seller really knows their stuff and has a good reputation.

Hopefully you can lay your hands on some of these - they are in the top 3 for me and one of my absolute favourites:  creamy and lush with generous liquid bass whilst also retaining a good amount of detail throughout so the sound never seems slack or veiled.  Tubey!   They are quite popular now but still plenty around I would still expect you to be able to land a pair for well under $100.  If you search for "Philips Holland made ECC82s"  or "Heerlen ECC82" that should get you started.   Let me know how you get on! 

Ok sweet, thanks for clearing that up! I bought the ones in the pic below. Are they the right ones?

 

[Jeb Listens]

Ok sweet, thanks for clearing that up! I bought the ones in the pic below. Are they the right ones?

 
Yes cool - they look like the ones:  and in their boxes too : always a nice bonus.  very nicely done. 
 
You can verify the factory code (they are etched in the glass on the side of the tubes near the bottom, can be difficult to find) when they arrive just to make sure they are as the seller has written   "Δ6K3"  
 
Δ = Factory: Heerlen   (will probably look like more of a right angle triangle as circled in my earlier post)
6 = Year: 1966
K = Month: November
3 = Week:  third week of that month
 
 
​I hope you enjoy them.  Let us know how you get on with them:  it would be really excellent to have another opinion of these in the WA7tp.   Happy listening. 

 

[kyle1010]

Yes cool - they look like the ones:  and in their boxes too : always a nice bonus.  very nicely done. 

You can verify the factory code (they are etched in the glass on the side of the tubes near the bottom, can be difficult to find) when they arrive just to make sure they are as the seller has written   "[COLOR=252525]Δ6K3"  [/COLOR]

[COLOR=252525]Δ = Factory: Heerlen   (will probably look like more of a right angle triangle as circled in my earlier post)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=252525]6 = Year: 1966[/COLOR]
[COLOR=252525]K = Month: November[/COLOR]
[COLOR=252525]3 = Week:  third week of that month[/COLOR]


[COLOR=252525]​I hope you enjoy them.  Let us know how you get on with them:  it would be really excellent to have another opinion of these in the WA7tp.   Happy listening. [/COLOR]

Just got the WA7tp yesterday and immediately rolled in those aforementioned Phillips tubes. Man..they completely drained almost ALL of the bass out of my music. Polar opposite of your experience so I think the Valvo version might be the bassy ones. The Phillips were, though, miles ahead of the stock 12AU7s as far as treble detail and soundstage. However, I can't play hip-hop and EDM with all mids and highs. I played a particularly bassy southern hip-hop track via Tidal and actually laughed as to how terrible it sounded through the WA7tp and my EL-8s..like..I longed to return to my $100 Fiio E12 with it's 50hz tastefully done bass boost. I rolled the stock tubes back in which have SLIGHTLY better bass but the soundstage clearly collapses and the treble now has a little of that grain you talked about..but not a lot. Ugh..ok..well the JANS should be arriving next week. If I can't get this WA7tp to bass up idk about its longevity on my nightstand. It's a shame cuz it's GORGEOUS and I got an amazing deal on it through a head-fi seller. But right now my Fiio E12 and B&W P7s are far more enjoyable for my type of music. Any suggestions? I tried hi-z and that does nothing.

 

[Jeb Listens]

Just got the WA7tp yesterday and immediately rolled in those aforementioned Phillips tubes. Man..they completely drained almost ALL of the bass out of my music. Polar opposite of your experience so I think the Valvo version might be the bassy ones. The Phillips were, though, miles ahead of the stock 12AU7s as far as treble detail and soundstage. However, I can't play hip-hop and EDM with all mids and highs. I played a particularly bassy southern hip-hop track via Tidal and actually laughed as to how terrible it sounded through the WA7tp and my EL-8s..like..I longed to return to my $100 Fiio E12 with it's 50hz tastefully done bass boost. I rolled the stock tubes back in which have SLIGHTLY better bass but the soundstage clearly collapses and the treble now has a little of that grain you talked about..but not a lot. Ugh..ok..well the JANS should be arriving next week. If I can't get this WA7tp to bass up idk about its longevity on my nightstand. It's a shame cuz it's GORGEOUS and I got an amazing deal on it through a head-fi seller. But right now my Fiio E12 and B&W P7s are far more enjoyable for my type of music. Any suggestions? I tried hi-z and that does nothing.

 
Kyle, 

Oh Man - sorry to hear they didn't work out.  Funny how we can be so far apart on those - there must be some differences in our tubes/equipment or else our ears are at different ends of the spectrum or perhaps a little of both.
 
I think the Sylvania JAN 5814a's will probably give you some of the bass boost you're looking for  - especially over the stock tubes.  They aren't as detailed as some of the others but overall still an excellent tube and an improvement over stock in all areas.  From memory I don't think I've tried any others (apart from my experience of the Philips) that will give you more in the bass department so if you try the JANs and still feel like you are missing the low end it might be that there isn't a tube for the WA7TP and your headphones that will quite provide the bass boost you're after.  
 
I think I'm finding that the more experience I get with headphones the pickier I'm getting about very fine tuning the sound exactly for my preferences.  At the moment I've decided that I'm happy for Amp/headphones/tubes to get me 90% there and to do the rest with a bit of minor EQ.  I'm using TIDAL too and am trying the 30 day trial of Amarra SQ+ which has an excellent EQ with more options than I understand right now. I have some high end sensitivity right now so I take a bit off the treble and add a little boost in the low end when I want that too.  
 
Please post how you get on with the JANs -  as I said, from what you describe of the sound you like I think they'll be a good indicator of how far you will be able to tailor the WA7 to suit your own tastes with tubes alone.  If they don't hit the spot in the low end, it might be time to rethink your set-up a little or else apply a little EQ.   If you go down that route then the Philips might still be of use to you since - as you say - they are also excellent in the mid/high end so boosting the low end might produce a more rounded sound to your liking. 
 
Best of luck!
 
Jeb 

 

[abvolt]

Of all the tubes I've rolled in my wa7/tp the overall best in SQ were in my opinion the cv4003 mullards, Have you listened to a pair yet I know there pricey but well worth it..

 

[kyle1010]

Of all the tubes I've rolled in my wa7/tp the overall best in SQ were in my opinion the cv4003 mullards, Have you listened to a pair yet I know there pricey but well worth it..

Nope not yet. In fact, the enroute JANS might be the last hope for this WA7tp. I mean..it's a $1500 product. I get the whole "audiophile flat bass" thing but for a headphone amp at this level I should be floored by what's coming out of my cans at all frequencies and for all genres of music. So far the WA7tp to me is ridiculously detailed and damn smooth but seriously lacks low end at mid or less volumes. I have to crank it nearly all the way up to get tactile bass which makes everything else scream and kills my ears..so..no. I've heard what my EL-8s are capable of bass-wise with my cheaper amp and I can't be getting less than that from the WA7 which costs 15x more. If these JANS don't do the trick I might just sell it all and wait til future products give me what I want. I know this sounds bratty, but for what we all shell out for good sound we oughtta be pretty blown away right?

 

[abvolt]

I agree you should be blown away by the sound quality from your wa7/tp especially with those headphones, I was on first listen with mine it's a great sounding amp to me. I hope it works out for you, but I do believe you'll be missing out if you don't give the mullards a go, again just my opinion..

 

[HiFiGuy528]

there's bass and there's BASS....  WA7+WA7tp gives you quality bass that's not boosted or in your face.  In your face BASS is easy to achieve with any low cost amp.

 

[kyle1010]

I agree you should be blown away by the sound quality from your wa7/tp especially with those headphones, I was on first listen with mine it's a great sounding amp to me. I hope it works out for you, but I do believe you'll be missing out if you don't give the mullards a go, again just my opinion..

Oh yeah..if the JANS are fantastic I'll definitely check out the Mullards and maybe a few others. Bass is a touchy subject amongst the audiophile community. What's too little..what's too much..it's all personal preference and what sounds best with your favorite music genres. I'm looking for that killer clarity and smoothness that the WA7tp does but with tactile bass slam that vibrates the earpads. It can be done. I played some FLAC tunes through my cheaper amp that got me 75% there. Only thing missing was the smoother tube sound and some micro details. That's why I threw down on the WA7(looks too). So maybe with the JANS or Mullards this'll be the amp for me. If not, I gotta sell and move on to bassier options with similar clarity and smoothness. Any suggestions just in case? Caveat is it has to have a built-in dac and fit on a nightstand. Really narrows things down huh? Haha

 

[abvolt]

I would agree with HiFiGuy528  in that the Woo amps are very nicely detailed and the bass that your hearing is very accurate, and for me the mullards really enhanced that great sound.. 

 

[money4me247]

kyle1010

an alternative route you can explore that would lead to greater sonic differences (imo) would be swapping out headphones. the el-8 is not as 'dark' as the other Audeze offerings from my experience, so getting a large bass emphasis out of them with external components may not be possible. they have a different presentation & balance from the traditional audeze house sound. of course, with bass boost or EQ adjustments you can get something more to your liking, but not my first headphone recommendation for more basshead-orientated preferences.

for solid closed v-shaped headphones with a nice bass boost I wld recommend the voda m100 or ultrasone pro900/siganture DJs (ultrasones only if you can find them at discount; arent really worth their msrp in my personal opinion - $300ish/$650ish respectively much more reasonable value). Other planar magnetics to explore include the old he-400, audeze lcd-2 (maybe even prefazor as I heard those may have more bass quantity). my personal top recommendation for bassy flagships wld be the lcd-x or th900. I think you wld be happiest with the th900 from what you've told me.

I think going in that direction of swapping out your headphones would provide more sonic tuning to your liking rather than swapping the wa7 as I doubt there are really any other amplifiers options that will provide that rich warmth with that competitive detail retrevial in this price range (not counting amps w bass boost options). warmest external component I've personally tried, so hard to see any other amp option being warmer without sacrificing overall sound quality.

just my two cents. hope its helpful

edit: ps, if you want to try a inexpensive tube amp w bass boosting fuction, the bravo v3 can do that w its built in EQ. Around $65-$100 dollars & you can roll tubes to further tune your preferences. If that doesn't work, then strongly consider the headphone swap if not wanting to EQ