[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veniogenesis Vertigo, this is simply a wonderful review. Phenomenal work. I agree with you ever single aspect and point. That is why I love my SA5000 so very much. Thank you! Cheers, Venio

Agreed. I just re-read the review, having now owned these 'phones for much longer and become far more familiarised with them, and i only agree with every point raised in the review more than i did in my previous post. The slight closeness of the soundstage, the lack of weight to the mids and below, and the need for just a hint of warmth remain the only flaws i can find in this headphone, but i believe its strengths excel to such a degree that its worth tweaking whatever else in the system i can to fill those gaps, rather than looking into other headphone options.

A fast SS amp with a hint of warmth i found mates perfectly with these, and provides that little touch of euphony while not constraining speed or detail. As far as the soundstaging and midrange weight, i'm looking into different IC's and a recable to provide that. If i can succeed there, this'll be one happy SA5K customer

 

[elmoe]

Dont know, my cans paired with the DAC-1 have very dynamic mids, with alot of speed and impact, they're not recessed at all imho. Also, the MPX3, while keeping the speed and detail, brings the needed warmth and musicality that these phones lack. Before I tried it I didn't think they were able to reproduce such a sound.

I think the SA5k need a very synergic rig, unlike gsferrari mentionned, an analytical source paired with a really good tube amp does wonders with the SA5k, so much in terms of speed and detail than in terms of warmth and musicality. My rig is still built mostly or an analytical sound, with speed and detail as the main criteria, but the singlepower MPX3 keeps that analytical sound and brings a touch of warmth to it, making the sound much more musical, the bass fuller and bloomier, emphasizing the mids and smoothing the highs some.

They're a headphone that needs very good synergy in the rig to sound their best, more so than any other phones I've tried. Had I not tried an MPX3+DAC-1 combo with them I would have never thought them capable of giving such a sound.

My recommendations to go with:

A fast, cold, detailled source. A warm, musical, yet fast and detailled tube amp, and warm (gold preferably) interconnects

 

[elmoe]

I also must add something about soundstage, I'm listening right now to Jimi Hendrix - South Saturn Delta, and the soundstage is nothing like Grado's. The sound goes all around my head and is slightly farther than the typical in your face grado sound. Not by much, but its still that much a gain.

One last thing, if you've tried a tube amp and think it kills the level of detail/speed of thee headphones, know that there are tube amps out there that, while adding warmth and musicality (and bringing out the bass, very important) keep the same level of speed and detail.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Since posting this review, I've gotten a better handle on some of the weaknesses of the SA5000, and having gotten a better grasp of some of the audiophile terms I somewhat misused originally, I should update with my current feelings on the SA5000.


First is the absolutely tiny headstage...this remains the most fatiguing aspect of the headphone for me. Most of the time everything sounds as if it's playing just right between your ears...there's hardly any side to side or frontal depth to the headstage. A lot of times I find myself taking the headphones off just to give my mind a break from being bombarded by so much detail at such close range. I'm starting to really wish for some way to expand the SA5000's headstage...I actually once tried stuffing some padding between me and the earpads in hopes of lifting the headphones away from my ears a bit to increase the headstage, but that didn't work.

The other weakness is the absolute lack of resolution, defined as a sense of cohesion to musical passages. This is exactly what both bangraman and Jazz were trying to point out, and I've finally come to understand what exactly "resolution" means. I've found that a lack of resolution can make a headphone, or anything for that matter, become fatiguing to listen to long term. Of course I suppose this is to be expected since the polar opposite of resolution is high amounts of detail and seperation, which IS after all what the SA5000s excel at. Which has led me to wonder if resolution and details/seperation can ever truly come together. I suppose a headphone that excels to the extreme at one will never be the other. The best we can hope for is a fine edge to walk between the two, and THAT is truly the holy grail of audio to seek.

In any event, these two major weaknesses keep me from using the SA5000s beyond an hour or so at the most. And I stand by my statement that they don't ever feel like they're delivering music to you...they can render music down to its individual components, but they never seem to deliver the entire picture whole. So in the end, they're fun to listen to, but not musically satisfying.

 

[elmoe]

...You really have to try an MPX3. In my rig, the sound goes all around my head, from behind one hear, to the front, to behind the other ear, and a step further than Grados.

As for musicality, or resolution if you prefer, the tube amp brought that, it completely changed the sound signature of the headphones, making them far more pleasant for long listening sessions (I do 6-8 hours most of the time, without fatigue or pain).

 

[virometal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertigo-1 they can render music down to its individual components, but they never seem to deliver the entire picture whole. So in the end, they're fun to listen to, but not musically satisfying.

I used to think this way and was about to give up on the SA5K. Then as if by magic, the whole picture came together. At first, I couldn't get past most miniscule nuance. My focus would jump from instrument to instrument. While fun at first, it was becoming annoying.

At about 2 weeks of daily three hours sessions, this changed. Funny that at about this time, I fell in love with the SA5K. As if by magic, the picture came together. Imagine gazing upon a 3D eye book where one stairs at a collection of images and suddenly, a 3D image comes forward. Now I have the ultimate power. Whether I want the whole picture or a tiny picture, it can be done.

They resolution is there IMO. It is whether one wants to make micro detail a part of it or not.

 

[Trogdor]

First off, outstanding review. Though reviews come in all shapes and styles, I particularly enjoyed how you analyzed essentially their frequency response and noticed the lack of house sound (which in can be good or bad as you noted depending on what camp your on).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap [size=small]It would be interesting to hear you review the Qualia 010 since the 010's supposedly have a larger soundstage and are very close to the SA5K's detail-wise.[/size]

Yes and from my experience, the Qualia's are probably more brutally honest if not more so than the SA5K's (though I would need more extended time with both). I think the SA5K's are a fantastic set of cans but absolutely require at the very least a decent source. They will tell you if you've been shopping at Radio Shack audio section.

Trogdor

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan I think the SA5k need a very synergic rig, unlike gsferrari mentionned, an analytical source paired with a really good tube amp does wonders with the SA5k, so much in terms of speed and detail than in terms of warmth and musicality. They're a headphone that needs very good synergy in the rig to sound their best, more so than any other phones I've tried. My recommendations to go with: A fast, cold, detailled source. A warm, musical, yet fast and detailled tube amp, and warm (gold preferably) interconnects

Good advice, Jashugan, this is something i've discovered is very true of the SA5K as well. The source needs to be highly detailed, with speed and dynamics by the bucketload, and preferably neutral or cold tonally. Then mix in warm interconnects and a fast, but warm amp, and you have magic. M^3 i know works well, though i imagine GS-1, Gilmore Lite, and most Singlepower offerings would excel also.

 

[Roasty]

just wondering, does anyone know of any good online retailers that sell the sa5000 and send to Singapore? cause i havent seen any here. i'm tempted to splurge on another pair of good headphones, and i've got a few choices in mind, ie grado 325i (curious about the grado sound considering i've already got the HD650), ER4P/S, and the SA5000.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap [size=small]In some respects this is the best review I have heard on the SA5000's, and it comes from the man who almost "talked" me into buying the ER-4B's. (I still may get them, but the UE-10's and the Westone E3's are ssooooo distracting!)[/size] [size=small]This is very important to me as I love to get an accurate feel of the relative quality of singers's voices, to be able to clearly hear why an Ella Fitzgerald trumps a Barbra Streisand or an Anita Baker or ... .[/size] [size=small]It would be interesting to hear you review the Qualia 010 since the 010's supposedly have a larger soundstage and are very close to the SA5K's detail-wise.[/size] [size=small]The studio monitoring usage has not been prominently mentioned before, although a few members have alluded to it. I love details, and this is what I look for in all audio gear. Since AKG tripped up my plans to snare some K501's by coming out with the K601/K701 twins and forcing me to reconsider my AKG can priority list, the SA5000's may just move up to #1 on my headphone hit list. (There's also the Joe Grado HP2's, but those are going to cost more than twice as much as the SA5K's.) The problem with sorting through phone reviews is having to deal with ravings of the detail "wusses" who simply cannot appreciate that hyper detail is fun! It is great to welcome back an expereinced detail loving freak like myself. Vertigo, you've been away too long.[/size]

I think I might have said it before, but if I am being extremely brutal, the SA5K's are high end headphones for people who have no real concept of what high end audio means. They have top-end detail in bags, but they also have a very consumer tuning which renders them uncouth and unable to capture the nuances of a performance as expressed by headphones such as the HD650, ATH-W2002 and DT880. So all you get is effectively a sticky-out, information overload top, rather shouty yet not particularly well detailed mids and bizarrely (I am still trying to work out how they managed this), that combined with a slow, largish and sloppy ‘fart cannon-ish’ bass. It seems that the lower you go, the SA5K offers less atticulation. It’s something that appears superficially detailed, but only in areas where detail is not crucial, and furthermore offers much less in the way of overall musical cohesion than the other aforementioned phones. On the face of it, enjoyable on a casual level, especially with more beat-based music. For critical listening and actual high fidelity use, two thumbs, two toes and any other appendage I can point down… for that purpose, the Beyerdynamic DT880 for example makes mincemeat of these at half the price.

(ooer... I've torpedoes my chances of getting rid of these

)


The Qualias are generally not that similar to the SA5K in that they go well beyond it in technical terms, but achieve if anything even less musical cohesion. If you were to take all the 'consumer-friendly' tuning aspects away from the SA5K and up the technical capability by a good amount and a considerable widening of the headstage, then you get the 010. The 010 are almost totally devoid of a defining character as such, and they're about measurements, technical excellence and hard enginering details. When combined with a 'friendly' coloured source, the uncompromising directness of the presentation of the 010 is made more palatable. With anything which tries to paint a sharp picture however, the etchiness of the performance becomes somewhat untenable. It's one of the reasons why these are my open 'walkman' phones, where the performance is naturally softer than the best-defined, high-end sources and I am free to change the tone as I wish. From a purely technical point of view, they’re worth a decent percentage of what you pay for them in comparison with other phones, and are deserving of a ‘wow’ factor in that respect because they deliver detail and tremendous speed across the entire frequency range to a surprising degree. However from a musical point of view, they’re IMO well behind the likes of the HD650. They’re just not that pleasant to listen to without additional “assistance” and overload you with information. With a constantly falling EQ curve starting from a slight boost in the lows, the Q010’s do impress with their consistency of technical ability within a very wide frequency range without killing my ears.

 

[solvexyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by solvexyz How is UE10 pro vs SA5k in terms of detail?

LOL, I am going to answer my own question since I just recently obtained a used SA5k. SA5k really spits out a lot of additional detail that I previous can not notice with my UE10 Pro. I am totally amazed. However, because currently still amp-less, I do feel SA5k sounds a bit thin and cold compared to UE10 pro. As for other impression on UE10 Pro vs SA5k, I think I need to upgrade my rig first before I can give SA5k a fair remark.

 

[Svperstar]

I realize I am late to this thread but I think I have something to add, having used the SA5000s as my main can for months now.

I haven't been on headfi much since September, as I have been busier than I have been in my entire life.

I had a very long thread a while back:

Initial Sony SA5000 impressions, best for electronic music? 595 comparison
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134323

Here is a short version though, I love my SA5000s for most music, however for any very thin light music, like a lot of minimal ambient music they leave much to be desired.

A lot of frail music that sets an atmoshere really needs a large soundstage and some weight added to the music. Music like Biosphere especially sounds very thin and almost non-existant at time, it is hard to describe. I can play with the EQ and effects on the EMU DSP or turn up the volume but it doesn't help. If you listen a lot of Brian Eno or Biosphere you may need a nice thick backup can.

For ALL other music though, there is no contest, these are the best headphones I have ever heard. Hear your favorite artist shift feet in the studio and such. Pink Floyd sounds amazing on these.

Any Bass heavy music sounds unbelievable. Bass is so defined and has a different texture. Compared to this my old senns were like listening to a monotone bandpass box.

More info in my thread above, my opinion of them hasn't changed at all

 

[ATAT]

I currently own a 650 / PPA v2 setup, and though I enjoy it very much on classical and vocals (like krall) There's something missing.. Do Ya'll think that the SA5K would give me what I want (more slam, less "veil") while keeping the vocals pleasing?

(btw, I'll be making a millet hybrid soon..)

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar A lot of frail music that sets an atmoshere really needs a large soundstage and some weight added to the music. Music like Biosphere especially sounds very thin and almost non-existant at time, it is hard to describe. I can play with the EQ and effects on the EMU DSP or turn up the volume but it doesn't help. If you listen a lot of Brian Eno or Biosphere you may need a nice thick backup can. For ALL other music though, there is no contest, these are the best headphones I have ever heard. Hear your favorite artist shift feet in the studio and such. Pink Floyd sounds amazing on these. Any Bass heavy music sounds unbelievable. Bass is so defined and has a different texture. Compared to this my old senns were like listening to a monotone bandpass box.

Would you mind sampling some of my music and seeing if it matches well with the SA5000s?

 

[Azure]

Here's the sound package (50 megs):
http://s26.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2...Z38KO3V7I8I3HU

Could all the SA5k owners please sample these songs and tell me if they match well with the SA5k sound signature?