[o0genesis0o]

I wonder whether depth has a lot to do with dynamic / loudness variations (my music teacher would murder me for saying dynamic = loudness)

From my very incomplete lessons in mixing, louder ~ nearer. There is no slider for “depth”, AFAIK, only stereo panning. It seems like a combination of ability to accurately convey many levels of loudness at the same time + the outstanding treble extension (not peaky treble, just not falling off the cliff after 8kHz) is the secret behind a “3D stage”.

Maybe good amp helps? Maybe something like most 64 audio IEMs can do this dynamic variation well even when driven by peanuts whilst some IEMs demand better amp? (Aka “scaling”).

Anyhow, the only planar IEM that I have used that have any resemblance of depth is the F1 Pro. But none of the planar lacks width.

Edit: the supermoon pushes everything outward, as if the entire stage is a thin dome slightly outside the head. Not much forward and backward variations, but it sounds like it has good “depth”

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Aures are the vocal beauts, na?

Yes. Mids are fantastic, but the bass might edge the mids out for sheer quality? I always bounce back and forth between with is actually better?

 

[Jaytiss]

Today was a good mail call. I got the Scarlet mini on a head fi loan, and the Orevetti 700 on loan from a friend. Both are crazy excellent, and I recommend both to anyone who wants something. Full review on the Scarlet mini soon, Orevetti soon as it has less of a rush. Just fantastic stuff.

 

[Leonarfd]

Small correction: R8ii does use Delta-Sigma DAC, but instead of getting a whole DAC on chip from ESS, AKM, or CL, Hiby built the delta-sigma DAC from discrete components. The resulting DAC architecture is called Darwin (something something).

Folks on R8ii thread chewed on me for this misunderstanding, so now I am chewing you

The flagship with R2R DAC of Hiby is still the (even more expensive) RS8.

How do you finish a full review in a few days? It takes me weeks. Is this turn around common expectation? No wonder manufacturers are unhappy with me

I tried to talk with a seller about the DAC portion of R8 II, and read upon it for my review.
R8 II is combining the DARWIN MPA from their R2R DAPs together with a Delta Sigma implementation made discrete. From my understanding it's 16 DAC chip/parts that go into the mix, with lots of tech that is outside of my understanding of DACs.

Best part it's built upon the DARWIN infrastructure, so HIBY can come with improvements or changes that even influence the DAC portion at a hardware level.

True TOTL DAP imo, but comes at a steep price. But not bad priced when you can compare it with some $3000 flagships.

It took me over a month to write the review.and I felt Inside it fairly fast, not sure what manufacturers expect for timeframe. Some review faster than others, I'm a slowpoke there. Specially on something like a DAP.

 

[Tzennn]

I wonder whether depth has a lot to do with dynamic / loudness variations (my music teacher would murder me for saying dynamic = loudness)

From my very incomplete lessons in mixing, louder ~ nearer. There is no slider for “depth”, AFAIK, only stereo panning. It seems like a combination of ability to accurately convey many levels of loudness at the same time + the outstanding treble extension (not peaky treble, just not falling off the cliff after 8kHz) is the secret behind a “3D stage”.

Maybe good amp helps? Maybe something like most 64 audio IEMs can do this dynamic variation well even when driven by peanuts whilst some IEMs demand better amp? (Aka “scaling”).

Anyhow, the only planar IEM that I have used that have any resemblance of depth is the F1 Pro. But none of the planar lacks width.

Edit: the supermoon pushes everything outward, as if the entire stage is a thin dome slightly outside the head. Not much forward and backward variations, but it sounds like it has good “depth”

For me soundstage link to resonance and peaks, for example, when recording a live performent, all of those instrument will produce some form of peaks through microphone and to our ears, so as long as our transducer is flat (or smooth), we will hears those peaks as we are right there when it's live. Best possible would be eliminate all of excessive peaks and resonance then maybe maybe, having the best soundstage ever!. Also having a pushed back mid can be preceived as natural stage so could help with that too.

 

[BS5711]

I’ve read this can mess up the drivers, was that a big exaggeration or ?

Connecting the IEM with the cable the wrong way around (reverse polarity) will make the driver move, for example, in then out rather than out then in.

Once the very first initial cycle in or out has taken place the driver is simply vibrating in the same manner. No harm to the driver at all.

In terms of audible effects, both sides being reversed polarity is quite different to one side being reversed and the other being normal.

 

[Redcarmoose]

TSMR FEAT
2BA X 2DD

 

[o0genesis0o]

I tried to talk with a seller about the DAC portion of R8 II, and read upon it for my review.
R8 II is combining the DARWIN MPA from their R2R DAPs together with a Delta Sigma implementation made discrete. From my understanding it's 16 DAC chip/parts that go into the mix, with lots of tech that is outside of my understanding of DACs.

Best part it's built upon the DARWIN infrastructure, so HIBY can come with improvements or changes that even influence the DAC portion at a hardware level.

True TOTL DAP imo, but comes at a steep price. But not bad priced when you can compare it with some $3000 flagships.

It took me over a month to write the review.and I felt Inside it fairly fast, not sure what manufacturers expect for timeframe. Some review faster than others, I'm a slowpoke there. Specially on something like a DAP.

@Joe Bloggs would be the best source of info.

This DAP is expensive no doubt, but in the context of its bracket, I think it’s very well priced.

Do you have any demanding IEMs or earphones to test? A viewer asked me about its driving power for the FatFreq Scarlet Mini but I don’t have the DAP anymore.

 

[halcyon]

If you're OK with using MMCX-to-QDC adaptors, there's a pretty decent Ety clone on Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003712610618.html

Thanks for the tip, Unfortunately for me that product (whatever it is, as I can't view it) only gives:

Any more ideas? Thanks!

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Thanks for the tip, Unfortunately for me that product (whatever it is, as I can't view it) only gives:



Any more ideas? Thanks!

Yes

Copy and paste the link text to your browser address bar instead of clicking the link

 

[Leonarfd]

@Joe Bloggs would be the best source of info.

This DAP is expensive no doubt, but in the context of its bracket, I think it’s very well priced.

Do you have any demanding IEMs or earphones to test? A viewer asked me about its driving power for the FatFreq Scarlet Mini but I don’t have the DAP anymore.

Yeah, my Venture Electronics Zen 3.0 is 300ohm. It's in the photo on the post above, it looses dynamics on most DAPs and get shouty. Cayin N7 was like this, R6 III and R6 Pro 2 also.

It need high gain and around 50-70% volume on R8 II, on N7 more like 70-90%.
Sounds good on R8 II and not as good on N7 where it lack dynamic range and get shouty.

Also tried with Final Audio E5000, enough volume and sound as it should at high gain 20-30% volume. And to me sounded as good as with Topping A90 Discrete being a powerful desktop amp.
E5000 is opposite, low impedance. But problem being the sensitivity.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Yeah, my Venture Electronics Zen 3.0 is 300ohm. It's in the photo on the post above, it looses dynamics on most DAPs and get shouty. Cayin N7 was like this, R6 III and R6 Pro 2 also.

It need high gain and around 50-70% volume on R8 II, on N7 more like 70-90%.
But this model is more due to the impedance making it hard.



Also tried with Final Audio E5000, enough volume and sound as it should at high gain 20-30% volume. And to me sounded as good as with Topping A90 Discrete being a powerful desktop amp.
E5000 is opposite, low impedance. But problem being the sensitivity.

Yeah, I also think that if the DAP can drive E5000, it would be able to drive anything

Edit: I found the Serratus to be bass light with the R8ii somehow. That’s not the case with DX300 and Topping G5. A bit concerning / curious to me.

 

[Leonarfd]

Yeah, I also think that if the DAP can drive E5000, it would be able to drive anything

At least on the IEM side, everything should work without any problem.

Very hard to drive full size headphones might have more problems, like planars etc.

My ZMF Verite Open is okay on R8 II, but lack something compared to my desktop gear. But it's high impedance and have fairly low sensetivity, most normal headphones should be good.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Yeah, my Venture Electronics Zen 3.0 is 300ohm. It's in the photo on the post above, it looses dynamics on most DAPs and get shouty. Cayin N7 was like this, R6 III and R6 Pro 2 also.

It need high gain and around 50-70% volume on R8 II, on N7 more like 70-90%.
But this model is more due to the impedance making it hard.



Also tried with Final Audio E5000, enough volume and sound as it should at high gain 20-30% volume. And to me sounded as good as with Topping A90 Discrete being a powerful desktop amp.
E5000 is opposite, low impedance. But problem being the sensitivity.

My two cents on the Zen 3, although the DAPs need high volume settings to drive them to volume, (fortunately / unfortunately) that doesn't mean anything is necessarily amiss with the sound they're putting out through the earbuds. Reason being, what you need for earphones to sound proper through a source, is (1)sufficient voltage swing and (2)sufficient current capability to back that up. Voltage swing is an all-or-nothing proposition: it determines listening volume directly, and if you have enough of it, you have enough of it, even if it takes exactly 100% volume to achieve. Current capability is the dodgy thing in comparison, if there's sufficient voltage but not current, that's when you'll hear adequate volume but with extra distortion (owing to undercurrent). And a case can then be made that the earphones "lose dynamics" (it would in fact distort exactly at the dynamic peaks)

I know that the Zen 3 says it can take up to 1.2W which none of these DAPs have anywhere near of. But being able to take 1.2W without exploding doesn't mean it takes anywhere near that to drive them to "full potential". And one would have to consider the possibility that "not dynamic" or "shouty" are actually inherent characters of these buds as they sound to you, if not for the general public.

 

[Leonarfd]

My two cents on the Zen 3, although the DAPs need high volume settings to drive them to volume, (fortunately / unfortunately) that doesn't mean anything is amiss with the sound they're putting out through the earbuds. Reason being, what you need for earphones to sound proper through a source, is (1)sufficient voltage swing and (2)sufficient current capability to back that up. Voltage swing is an all-or-nothing proposition: it determines listening volume directly, and if you have enough of it, you have enough of it, even if it takes exactly 100% volume to achieve. Current capability is the dodgy thing in comparison, if there's sufficient voltage but not current, that's when you'll hear adequate volume but with extra distortion (owing to undercurrent). And a case can then be made that the earphones "lose dynamics" (it would in fact distort exactly at the dynamic peaks)

I know that the Zen 3 says it can take up to 1.2W which none of these DAPs have anywhere near of. But being able to take 1.2W without exploding doesn't mean it takes anywhere near that to drive them to "full potential". And one would have to consider the possibility that "not dynamic" or "shouty" are actually inherent characters of these buds as they sound to you, if not for the general public.

Zen 3.0 sound very good on R8 II, no real complaints there. Maybe didn't come clear in my post above, it's the first DAP I have owned where it sounds full.