[twister6]

Not sure if baiting...

Once you understand the mechanisms and differences between "digital" and "analog", you realise almost instantly that there is not reasonable logic that USB cables differ from each other. What's going to happen? The 1s are going to get sharper and the 0s are going to get rounder?

True, digital signal is just 0s and 1s. I mean, how can a wire make a difference in this case? But there is a very simple explanation: digital audio data transfer includes both the data and the timing info. Degradation of a signal due to a lower quality cable will cause skew in the analog square edges of “digital” pulse (1s are just analog square pulses when you look at the signal on the scope) which results in a timing inaccuracy that will cause jitter and packet errors.

If you think about USB cable design, you are dealing with a pair of data wires and a pair of power wires (5V vbus and ground). Digital data and power from your PC/laptop usb port inevitably going to have some noise as well as being susceptible to EMI and RFI. The portable audio devices attached to your computer are relying on getting its power from USB port, and this “dirty” power reference is used in D/A conversion to extract analog signal. Noisy power reference will cause errors during decoding and consequently will raise a noise floor. That is a reason why all standalone desktop DACs/amps use a massive power supply to provide a clean internal power source independent of the power from a source through a digital cable.

So, in my opinion, a high quality cable where you have a better shielding and isolation of data and power bus, and power wires which have a proper gauge to handle higher power (beefy enough to handle USB 3 spec) should make a difference. I think in case of digital cables, these factors above are more important than the actual type of material used in the data wires of the digital cable. I have tried various AudioQuest usb cables, and their Jitterbug filter, and compared it with some of my basic $2-$3 usb cable while using a few different usb DACs, and I can hear a difference when listening directly from my aging ThinkPad T430s, not a night'n'day difference, but I do hear it

 

[Ike1985]

I second much of what Alex said and also would add that Rob Watts has stated many times that emi/rf can make a sound artificially bright whereas a good cable should sound warm and smooth(assuming I'm not butchering what he said).

 

[ceeloChamp]

I can’t believe I forgot to post these

 

[dc655321]

True, digital signal is just 0s and 1s. I mean, how can a wire make a difference in this case? But there is a very simple explanation: digital audio data transfer includes both the data and the timing info. Degradation of a signal due to a lower quality cable will cause skew in the analog square edges of “digital” pulse (1s are just analog square pulses when you look at the signal on the scope) which results in a timing inaccuracy that will cause jitter and packet errors.

Yes, pulse shape can suffer degradation in passage through a cable, but a pulse constitutes a single bit and DACs do not operate on individual bits (not even DSD).
They operate on groups of 16-32 bits (PCM mode). The timing structure is based on the boundaries of those bit-groups (bytes).
Plus, the bits do not go directly from cable to DAC - there is always a USB interface circuit (XMOS or similar) in between that also serves as buffer
This decouples the timing jitter of source (PC) from that of sink (DAC).

Noisy power reference will cause errors during decoding and consequently will raise a noise floor. That is a reason why all standalone desktop DACs/amps use a massive power supply to provide a clean internal power source independent of the power from a source through a digital cable.

Yes, dirty power is very real thing and can manifest in raising the noise floor of DACs.
Implementers have to make some seriously rookie mistakes or neglectful practices to miss cleaning that up before the DAC sees it.
Also, note that is quite a different effect from signal errors.

So, in my opinion, a high quality cable where you have a better shielding and isolation of data and power bus, and power wires which have a proper gauge to handle higher power (beefy enough to handle USB 3 spec) should make a difference.

You are right in that a quality cable is important to maintain fidelity.
But if you have a system where source noise is coupled and audibly influential to the audio signal, cable/wire quality will have little to no effect on mitigating that.
Unless it's a ground loop somewhere, but that can be trivial to fix.

I second much of what Alex said and also would add that Rob Watts has stated many times that emi/rf can make a sound artificially bright whereas a good cable should sound warm and smooth(assuming I'm not butchering what he said).

I have to hope you are just butchering that sentiment
How does a cable have any sound at all? It's a passive element.

 

[twister6]

Apologies for getting off topic with USB cables discussion, I'm sure there is a separate thread for it, somewhere on HF Now, back to a regularly scheduled 64audio program

 

[ceeloChamp]

Is there going to be a custom Fourte ever?

 

[Giraku]

Is there going to be a custom Fourte ever?

I was told that Fourte (or Trio) requires a specific shape of acoustic chamber so that they do not have any plan to make custom for these models.

 

[eldss]

I can’t believe I forgot to post these

what cable are you using?

 

[tim0chan]

Is there going to be a custom Fourte ever?

I was told that Fourte (or Trio) requires a specific shape of acoustic chamber so that they do not have any plan to make custom for these models.

A work around is custom tips...

 

[Giraku]

what cable are you using?

Leonidas?

 

[kranebrain]

I'm trying to decide between the u12t or a12t. Anyone have a personal experience between the two and can comment on their comfort and sound quality?

 

[tim0chan]

I'm trying to decide between the u12t or a12t. Anyone have a personal experience between the two and can comment on their comfort and sound quality?

Same sound quality, one is custom the other is universal. Buy the universal if u wanna upgrade in the future. If not, go for the customs

 

[491326]

@ceeloChamp how does the leonidas change the a12t? i have one myself and while i love the rumble and bassiness, its a bit much even on the m15 module. i want a little more tightness and slightly more forward mids.

 

[junix]

Thanks for sharing the impression. It's interesting to know how variable the tip preference is among different people. I tried various tips including SpinFit and Comply, but the best one so far is the stock foam tips. To my ears, SpinFit is too bright without bass, and Comply has good sound but not comfortable. Maybe I should try Symbio Mandarines.

Maybe you should try the Symbio..
I love them on the U18t, tried them on a demo Fourte and loved the combo too..
IMHO ..it packs the best of both worlds: comfy like foam and isolates well enough but you don’t loose that much the tia magic like comply. And they are much faster/easier to insert than foam + much more durable.

Btw you purchasing also the U18t makes me think I should re-demo the Fourte, there is space for both in my heart.

 

[Marat Sar]

Yeah, second day on my symbio mandarines, getting better and better.

Reviewers I trust have recommended the pairing, I will of course demo it before buying to be sure. = )

I had a look at the Janus and it's got palladium in it I mean I'm not a scientist, but they might as well use iron plating and make it cost 300 USD not 1500... You know what's the worst thing though -- I think I want it. The idea of electricity being pumped through palladium into 36 drivers in my ears is strangely compelling.

I don't wanna turn this into a damn cable discussion, but I just wanted to know -- you seem like a reasonable person, what possesses you to consider this? (I've given my reason: I'm insane). Messing with some of the frequencies in a musical way could make the tzar smoother, more colourful, thicker, sure...

Also, if you could -- I didn't find any reviews where they describe the janus with the tzar, which I'd very much like to read -- any links?