[Currawong]

I forgot to post my Final D8000 Pro review here. It includes a video review.

Also, very interesting: Ordinary People Try High-End Headphones

 

[ra990]

When will you get a hold of the Abyss 1266 Phi/TC @Currawong?

 

[Currawong]

Let's get this going again:

The Final D8000

 

[markkr]

Love this thread, thanks for all your efforts!

 

[ra990]

When will you get a hold of the Abyss 1266 Phi/TC @Currawong?

My question remains Would love to see your review of the 1266 TC.

 

[Currawong]

Next in the collection:

 

[Sp12er3]

then the elite, then the stealth... and hopefully... someday... ADX5000?

 

[Pharmaboy]

Next in the collection:

Thanks for another terrific, exhaustive review.

What's up with the price creep of these TOTL headphones? It seems that $4k - $5K = the new $3K - $4K of just 2-3 years ago; which in turn = the new $1K - $2K of 5-6 years ago. The same thing is happening with amps & DACs.

IMO it's wonderful that headphone audio is becoming more mainstream than ever before--but far less wonderful that TOTL pricing is jumping so high, so quickly.

Price-creep took over high-end audio decades ago and is now in downright silly territory, ie: "affordable" speakers are $20K/pair; TOTL turntable, amp or speakers costing >$150K, etc. When only stockbrokers, physicians and dentists can afford your product, the business model would seem somewhat short-sighted & confining...

 

[thehutch]

Thanks for another terrific, exhaustive review.

What's up with the price creep of these TOTL headphones? It seems that $4k - $5K = the new $3K - $4K of just 2-3 years ago; which in turn = the new $1K - $2K of 5-6 years ago. The same thing is happening with amps & DACs.

IMO it's wonderful that headphone audio is becoming more mainstream than ever before--but far less wonderful that TOTL pricing is jumping so high, so quickly.

Price-creep took over high-end audio decades ago and is now in downright silly territory, ie: "affordable" speakers are $20K/pair; TOTL turntable, amp or speakers costing >$150K, etc. When only stockbrokers, physicians and dentists can afford your product, the business model would seem somewhat short-sighted & confining...

Amen. I hadn’t really thought about the comparison to hifi. Now I’m quite worried you’re right – that this is just the beginning of a rise to prices plucked from thin air. Will the next 1266 cost $6,000? The next Susvara cost $7,000?

I’ve heard the Susvara is priced at $6,000 because Chinese buyers are more likely to correlate price with quality (I’m sorry if that’s an unfair generalization). Is that a factor here in the rising prices? Is this the opposite of what we’d usually think of as a price war?

 

[Pharmaboy]

Amen. I hadn’t really thought about the comparison to hifi. Now I’m quite worried you’re right – that this is just the beginning of a rise to prices plucked from thin air. Will the next 1266 cost $6,000? The next Susvara cost $7,000?

I’ve heard the Susvara is priced at $6,000 because Chinese buyers are more likely to correlate price with quality (I’m sorry if that’s an unfair generalization). Is that a factor here in the rising prices? Is this the opposite of what we’d usually think of as a price war?

Re "I’ve heard the Susvara is priced at $6,000 because Chinese buyers are more likely to correlate price with quality"

Change "Chinese" to "human beings" and I think you're onto something.

This false equivalence of price with quality is definitely a major factor in the huge price ceilings in audiophile/2-channel gear. Another factor is sheer size: some of high-end speakers weigh 300-400 lbs per side; amplifiers can be a yard square, 2 ft tall and weigh >150 lbs; turntables can be massive, tall, and weigh 100s of pounds.

Sheer size really isn't the big factor with headphone audio that it is with hi-end 2-channel audio, though some amplifiers are borderline massive now. But still, arrogance & the decoupling of literal function from perceived value definitely is becoming a big factor in the pricing of headphone audio.

I always felt that decoupling the perceived value of gear from its price was my job as an audio consumer. In high end audio I did that via buying strictly used gear (new gear depreciates sharply & quickly in audio, just as it does in automobiles). I no longer have my high-end systems, but purchased much of my desktop & headphone gear used. I will pay full price on occasion--primarily various handcrafted wooden headphones by ZMF, because their design and workmanship are strikingly good, and so well matched by their sound.

Regardless, I'm just not willing to go >$4K for a pair of headphones or an amp, no matter what company makes them.

 

[thehutch]

Re "I’ve heard the Susvara is priced at $6,000 because Chinese buyers are more likely to correlate price with quality"

Change "Chinese" to "human beings" and I think you're onto something.

This false equivalence of price with quality is definitely a major factor in the huge price ceilings in audiophile/2-channel gear. Another factor is sheer size: some of high-end speakers weigh 300-400 lbs per side; amplifiers can be a yard square, 2 ft tall and weigh >150 lbs; turntables can be massive, tall, and weigh 100s of pounds.

Sheer size really isn't the big factor with headphone audio that it is with hi-end 2-channel audio, though some amplifiers are borderline massive now. But still, arrogance & the decoupling of literal function from perceived value definitely is becoming a big factor in the pricing of headphone audio.

I always felt that decoupling the perceived value of gear from its price was my job as an audio consumer. In high end audio I did that via buying strictly used gear (new gear depreciates sharply & quickly in audio, just as it does in automobiles). I no longer have my high-end systems, but purchased much of my desktop & headphone gear used. I will pay full price on occasion--primarily various handcrafted wooden headphones by ZMF, because their design and workmanship are strikingly good, and so well matched by their sound.

Regardless, I'm just not willing to go >$4K for a pair of headphones or an amp, no matter what company makes them.

Totally with you on all that. I buy 90 percent used and can’t believe I went on as long as I did buying stuff new.

 

[All Day Breakfast]

I’ve heard the Susvara is priced at $6,000 because Chinese buyers are more likely to correlate price with quality (I’m sorry if that’s an unfair generalization). Is that a factor here in the rising prices? Is this the opposite of what we’d usually think of as a price war?

I’ll posit the theory that the price increases are at least partially due to a) audio engineers are increasingly in demand and to compete you need to pay them more, b) materials are increasingly exotic with for example planer magnetic films that are increasingly thin, the use of berrylium, more exotic metals and sometimes woods (ZMF) used earcups or Abyss foamed aluminium in 1266 tc and magnesium in headbands and c) increased marketing sending out review units and competition costs to reach customers with your product over the competition and with transportation costs increasing for manufacturers having to move large amounts of equipment at CanJams and such and d) with rising costs of bringing a product to market you have to absorb the costs sunk into subpar selling units. Maybe there is also a “because they can because we’ll buy them factor” but I bet nobody is getting filthy rich making and selling high end headphones.

 

[thehutch]

I’ll posit the theory that the price increases are at least partially due to a) audio engineers are increasingly in demand and to compete you need to pay them more, b) materials are increasingly exotic with for example planer magnetic films that are increasingly thin, the use of berrylium, more exotic metals and sometimes woods (ZMF) used earcups or Abyss foamed aluminium in 1266 tc and magnesium in headbands and c) increased marketing sending out review units and competition costs to reach customers with your product over the competition and with transportation costs increasing for manufacturers having to move large amounts of equipment at CanJams and such and d) with rising costs of bringing a product to market you have to absorb the costs sunk into subpar selling units. Maybe there is also a “because they can because we’ll buy them factor” but I bet nobody is getting filthy rich making and selling high end headphones.

All very good points. And your last one is of course important. Definitely not suggesting anyone is doing this to get rich. Obviously if you charge more you sell fewer units so it’s all a trade off. Most of the companies making high end headphones are small businesses.

 

[Currawong]

What's up with the price creep of these TOTL headphones?

Inflation. If you do the math, they haven't gotten radically more expensive than you think they have. The Sony MDR-10 was $2600 in 1989, and that's $5500 today.

Re "I’ve heard the Susvara is priced at $6,000 because Chinese buyers are more likely to correlate price with quality"

And probably because they'll hard bargain down the price when they buy it, to half that (at a guess).

 

[Currawong]

Coming soon...