[Thomasr]

I'm quite new to headphone hifi, but would love to extract the best possible performance from the modest gear I do have.

My first acquisition was a Fiio BTR7 coupled with Fiio FH5s. Since both are equipped with balanced out/inputs (and the FH5s comes with a frankly insane array of accessories) I used the 4.4mm pentacon cable and haven't looked back.

Several acquisitions later, I find myself with an Aiyima T10 DAC/amp, SMSL HO200 amp, and Monolith M1570 headphones as my go-to setup. The Aiyima is strictly single-ended with RCA outputs. The SMSL has both input and output options for single-ended or balanced (though paired with the Aiyima I'm obviously running RCA inputs). The M1570s shipped with an unbalanced cable and that's what I'm using.

I understand how balanced outputs help feed power to demanding drivers. I've also heard people talk about (and detractors respond to) the idea of better channel separation and a nicer soundstage when running balanced. My questions relate to the above Aiyima/SMSL/Monolith chain:

• Moving up to the HO200 immediately had the M1570s scaling with better amplification - clipping was eliminated, soundstage opened way up, and bass reached way deeper. But I'm going to assume I'm now at "plenty" and there's no need to chase more power through balanced amplification
• Am I realistically going to notice a difference (separation, staging, etc.) if I buy the balanced cable for the M1570s and run from the 4.4mm balanced output?
• Moving upstream, there's always the option to make this hobby even more spendy. I could replace the Aiyima with something that has balanced outputs like the SMSL DO200 mk2, and run fully balanced all the way from DAC to cans. But again, worth it? Is there anything worth chasing here?

FWIW I'm already blown away with the sound quality of my setup. I'm probably not done spending money on this hobby, but is a balanced rig the place to be spending it at this point?

 

[Mark200]

The main benefits of a balanced headphone setup are:

1. Balanced amps typically produce twice the power output as a single ended amp at a given headphone impedance. Power output drops off rapidly when the headphone impedance is increased (check the specs of your amp). If you use low or moderate impedance headphones, or you reasonably sure that you are getting plenty of power output from your amp for your headphones, you may not notice any power output benefit of a balanced headphone amp and balanced headphone cables.
   
   
2. The crosstalk specs on a balanced amp are almost always better than single ended, because single ended shares a common ground. This may not be a problem, especially since headphones may exaggerate channel separation compared to listening to a speaker (since with a speaker, you are hearing music out of both the L and R channels from each ear, unlike a headphone where you left ear only hears the left channel, and the right ear only hears the right channel.

 

[Neweymatt]

I'm quite new to headphone hifi, but would love to extract the best possible performance from the modest gear I do have.

My first acquisition was a Fiio BTR7 coupled with Fiio FH5s. Since both are equipped with balanced out/inputs (and the FH5s comes with a frankly insane array of accessories) I used the 4.4mm pentacon cable and haven't looked back.

Several acquisitions later, I find myself with an Aiyima T10 DAC/amp, SMSL HO200 amp, and Monolith M1570 headphones as my go-to setup. The Aiyima is strictly single-ended with RCA outputs. The SMSL has both input and output options for single-ended or balanced (though paired with the Aiyima I'm obviously running RCA inputs). The M1570s shipped with an unbalanced cable and that's what I'm using.

I understand how balanced outputs help feed power to demanding drivers. I've also heard people talk about (and detractors respond to) the idea of better channel separation and a nicer soundstage when running balanced. My questions relate to the above Aiyima/SMSL/Monolith chain:

• Moving up to the HO200 immediately had the M1570s scaling with better amplification - clipping was eliminated, soundstage opened way up, and bass reached way deeper. But I'm going to assume I'm now at "plenty" and there's no need to chase more power through balanced amplification
• Am I realistically going to notice a difference (separation, staging, etc.) if I buy the balanced cable for the M1570s and run from the 4.4mm balanced output?
• Moving upstream, there's always the option to make this hobby even more spendy. I could replace the Aiyima with something that has balanced outputs like the SMSL DO200 mk2, and run fully balanced all the way from DAC to cans. But again, worth it? Is there anything worth chasing here?

FWIW I'm already blown away with the sound quality of my setup. I'm probably not done spending money on this hobby, but is a balanced rig the place to be spending it at this point?

When I first started out in this hobby I consciously avoided balanced, as I felt that if it did make a difference, it wouldn't be as much as I'd experience by getting more/different headphones & IEMs instead. For the first year I was buying stuff the only thing that I had balanced was the IER-Z1R, and the only source I had for that was the A&K SR25 DAP. Not a lot of difference between SE and balanced on that DAP, but it was moderately noticeable.

When I decided to go all-in and get the Meze Empyrean I figured I should get a proper balanced desktop amp and got the Jot2 at the same time. And the difference between SE and balanced is pretty significant, much better dynamic range, bass is tighter, and an overall more immersive listening experience balanced from the Jot2. Not just for the Empyrean, but for several of my other headphones and IEMs, eg the LCD-2C and Z1R really shine with the Jot2.

I don't know your gear, so I can't say that going balanced on your headphone will give you even more improvements, but I suspect it will. I guess you've just got to work out how much you're going to commit to this hobby, and whether you are keen to get more/different headphones? IEMs? Maybe for now you're better off pursuing those instead for something different?

 

[ST33L]

Some say that the difference is negligible, however, I personally find that balanced provides more energy, dynamics, and slam.

 

[baskingshark]

I'm quite new to headphone hifi, but would love to extract the best possible performance from the modest gear I do have.

My first acquisition was a Fiio BTR7 coupled with Fiio FH5s. Since both are equipped with balanced out/inputs (and the FH5s comes with a frankly insane array of accessories) I used the 4.4mm pentacon cable and haven't looked back.

Several acquisitions later, I find myself with an Aiyima T10 DAC/amp, SMSL HO200 amp, and Monolith M1570 headphones as my go-to setup. The Aiyima is strictly single-ended with RCA outputs. The SMSL has both input and output options for single-ended or balanced (though paired with the Aiyima I'm obviously running RCA inputs). The M1570s shipped with an unbalanced cable and that's what I'm using.

I understand how balanced outputs help feed power to demanding drivers. I've also heard people talk about (and detractors respond to) the idea of better channel separation and a nicer soundstage when running balanced. My questions relate to the above Aiyima/SMSL/Monolith chain:

• Moving up to the HO200 immediately had the M1570s scaling with better amplification - clipping was eliminated, soundstage opened way up, and bass reached way deeper. But I'm going to assume I'm now at "plenty" and there's no need to chase more power through balanced amplification
• Am I realistically going to notice a difference (separation, staging, etc.) if I buy the balanced cable for the M1570s and run from the 4.4mm balanced output?
• Moving upstream, there's always the option to make this hobby even more spendy. I could replace the Aiyima with something that has balanced outputs like the SMSL DO200 mk2, and run fully balanced all the way from DAC to cans. But again, worth it? Is there anything worth chasing here?

FWIW I'm already blown away with the sound quality of my setup. I'm probably not done spending money on this hobby, but is a balanced rig the place to be spending it at this point?

Actually if a single ended source if implemented well, it can potentially sound as good as a balanced source (other than perhaps if power is lacking for low sensitivity/high impedance gear) (assuming volume matched).

But I realize, for gear with a balanced + single ended output, some manufacturers seem to gimp the single ended portion and downthrottle it, compared to the balanced output. So sometimes the single ended sounds worse or measures worse than the balanced one in the same gear. But if implemented well (and if power/headroom is not an issue), single ended can be competitive IMHO.

 

[552609]

Balanced makes a huge difference...in volume level - easier to drive headphones. As long as you are getting enough power to listen at a good level, you should be good. That said, everything I own has a balanced connector because I like it more. Soooo...you do you.

 

[Roseval]

and run fully balanced all the way from DAC to cans.

You won't.
The use of the term "balanced" is a permanent source of confusion.

A balanced connection as common in the pro-world is a 3 wire connection using a 3 pin XLR or a TRS jack.
It is used to connect DAC's, amps, active speakers, etc. at line level.
The 3 wires carry a hot, a cold (the inverse of the hot) and a ground.
At the receiver there is a differential amp comparing the hot and the cold and removing all common noise.
In a studio environment with tons of gear and long cable runs, balanced is a must.
At home you might wonder if you really need it.
If you don't have noise issues using RCA, you might as well stick to the RCA.

A "balanced" connection in the headphone world means something completely different.
It is a 4 wire connection, L+/L- and R+/R- between the amp and the headphone.
Nothing "balanced" about this symmetrical connection but as L and R no longer have a common ground, it allow for amplifier topologies with a floating ground like indeed a balanced amp. That is why this double single ended connection is called "balanced" in the headphone world. It is simply 2 times a single ended connection just like connecting speakers to an amp.
In general, as they are using 2 amps per channel instead of 1.
- more power
- more distortion (the sum of both amps) but fortunately today's amps have an extremely low distortion hence it might simply be not audible
- higher impedance but again doubling a very low impedance might be inaudible.

 

[ADUHF]

You won't.
The use of the term "balanced" is a permanent source of confusion...

Thank you for this concise explanation, Roseval. I've always wondered about the differences between balanced audio in pro, and home (audiophile) applications. And this helps to put them in a little better context.

Some home audio gear now uses balanced cabling between other components though, such as the DAC and amp. And I assume this is closer to a balanced line level connection in pro audio, than between an amp and headphones. My impression is that these other balanced home audio connections can be more "proprietary", and less standardized than balanced connections in a pro environment though. Feel free to set me straight, if that's not right.

I think the balanced cables in pro audio can also be used for other kinds of connections than just line level. I believe mics generally use balanced XLR cables (with mic levels), for example. And maybe also some instruments. But not sure about this.

 

[Roseval]

I believe mics generally use balanced XLR cables

Correct. Mics are the same disaster as a cartridge in a turntable. A very low signal hence a very poor signal to noise ratio (SNR). A connection shielding this soft signal is a must hence the common noise rejection inherent to XLR is an asset.

My impression is that these other balanced home audio connections can be more "proprietary", and less standardized than balanced connections in a pro environment though.

Don't think so.
Most of the time it is 4.2 V but pro-gear might add options to beef the signal a bit more. That is another raison d'être for XLR, higher voltage as you have to cover a 50m distance between stage and mixing panel.
However, all the time the principe remains the same being it home or pro. The source uses a balun to generated the hot and the cold. The receiver uses a differential amp to remove any difference between the hot and the cold.

 

[jmwant]

More power and dynamics. The difference is very little if your headphones/ iems are efficient.

 

[Leonarfd]

Second this 100%, and with much of new releases of gear the specs is already over the threshold of what we can hear. Specially when looking at noise specs.

Actually if a single ended source if implemented well, it can potentially sound as good as a balanced source (other than perhaps if power is lacking for low sensitivity/high impedance gear) (assuming volume matched).

But I realize, for gear with a balanced + single ended output, some manufacturers seem to gimp the single ended portion and downthrottle it, compared to the balanced output. So sometimes the single ended sounds worse or measures worse than the balanced one in the same gear. But if implemented well (and if power/headroom is not an issue), single ended can be competitive IMHO.

 

[tomb]

Focus in on the comments that talked about GROUND. That's the primary benefit of balanced connections.

Correct. Mics are the same disaster as a cartridge in a turntable. A very low signal hence a very poor signal to noise ratio (SNR). A connection shielding this soft signal is a must hence the common noise rejection inherent to XLR is an asset.

Don't think so.
Most of the time it is 4.2 V but pro-gear might add options to beef the signal a bit more. That is another raison d'être for XLR, higher voltage as you have to cover a 50m distance between stage and mixing panel.
However, all the time the principe remains the same being it home or pro. The source uses a balun to generated the hot and the cold. The receiver uses a differential amp to remove any difference between the hot and the cold.

The real key is in the highlighted text that Roseval wrote. Every time someone in the headphone world says, "balanced," they really mean differential. A differential amp uses two truly separate amplifiers per channel, for a total of 4 amplifiers for a stereo signal. Each channel is split into its differential components, amplified separately, then combined. If your music string is truly differential from source to driver, then the final connection of the differential components never occurs until arriving at the driver. If not, then somewhere there are not differential components and the music string is not "pure" differential.

In the "Pro world," as Roseval explains, "balanced" is a term used for the connections and cabling between components. There is a noted mfr in the headphone world, who will claim to his dying breath that his equipment is "balanced," simply because it uses balanced connections. If it's an amplifier, it may very well be single-ended on the inside, have balanced connections on the input and output and this mfr (who shall go nameless) will call the entire amplifier balanced.

That is what makes the "balanced" discussion confusing in the headphone world. I guess we can blame Tyll Hertsens for some of this, because he originated the use of fully differential amplifiers for headphone use and called them "balanced." I think it was easier to market his amps that way and the term stuck. However, it's proper to call the amplifier "fully differential," instead.

It's notable that fully differential circuitry with separately grounded outputs in an amplifier can give you most of the benefit of fully differential, whether the entire amp is "pure" differential or not. The real reason is that common mode distortion is cancelled in fully differential circuitry. Common mode distortion occurs in the active parts of a circuit and through interference, among other things. Reducing this noise has a very real effect in headphone listening because the signals are so small and the resolution of detail is so great. I believe this is the primary reason for fully differential amps "sounding better" with headphones.

In fact, build an amp that's totally differential on the inside, use single-ended inputs and outputs, but with balanced connectors (to get the grounding benefit), and you have 99.99% of the benefit of so-called "pure," fully differential operation. In the case of tube amplifiers, this is really what you want to do, because it's not the safest thing to do to connect to fully differential, high-voltage outputs with the traditional means of DC-blocking.

 

[Thomasr]

Thank you all - very informative replies all around. I suppose as a first step, I could try some A/B testing with my FH5S IEMs since they come with both 3.5mm and 4.4mm cable. Probably not the most useful/relevant test since my real question is about my M1570 planars, but it is a test I'm equipped for and will let me hear something with my own ears.

 

[It Hz]

Great thread !

I was wondering as well, what the degree of advantages of having a balanced connector on the headphones where the information posted here cleared the air....... I think

Correct me if I'm wrong. To a layman like myself, here is my take on all this:

• Having a balanced system is only as good as the amplifications method used upstream of the output connector

• If the amplifier stereo circuitry does not have adequate separation between the 2 channel outputs much of the advantages of the use of a balanced connector are lost

• Having low signal output and or "long runs" on the cable is where a balanced connector can make a difference. If your running short leads and higher signal strength, then the difference will hardly be noticeable

• A balanced connector makes more sense with the use of professional equipment and recording studios. If you have very "high-end" equipment for home use, then a balanced connector is justified. If you have a moderately priced system, the difference is somewhat negligible.

Did I state this accurately?

From a mechanical perspective I actually prefer the phono jack type connector over the 4 pin XLR connector which tends to be bulky, needs to be clocked correctly before engagement and might not as much support being so short when getting pulled in a sideways direction. This really has no bearing on the actual quality of the XLR, just my observation.

 

[Mark200]

• Having a balanced system is only as good as the amplifications method used upstream of the output connector

If you don't have a balanced amp, then merely converting a single ended headphone connector to a balanced headphone cable via an adapter will not make any different as you indicated.

• If the amplifier stereo circuitry does not have adequate separation between the 2 channel outputs much of the advantages of the use of a balanced connector are lost

Typically a true balanced amplifier circuit has better channel separation than a single end amp. That is because the amp circuits for left and right are completely separate in a balanced design and there is not a common negative circuit like there is in a single ended. That is why a single ended headphone output has only 3 connectors for both channels combined, and balanced has 4 connectors.

Many balanced amps will publish two different channel separation specifications depending on whether it is run in balanced or single-ended mode.

However, because a balanced amp (not just balanced cable) has 2 completely different amp circuits, the typical output voltage from a balanced amp is twice that of a single ended amp at a given headphone impedance. This is more important for headphones with impedance loads of 150 ohms or more because higher impedance headphones cause the available maximum output voltage rating to drop on the amplifier headphone amp. Almost headphone amps will give you the output voltage specs of various headphone impedance loads Balanced amps will also give the voltage output depending on whether one is using the single-ended mode, or balanced mode outputs of the amp.

low signal output and or "long runs" on the cable is where a balanced connector can make a difference. If your running short leads and higher signal strength, then the difference will hardly be noticeable

Correct in terms of ability to reduce noise that is more likely on long running line level cables (like from a mic to some other input device, or from a pre-amp to an amp).

• A balanced connector makes more sense with the use of professional equipment and recording studios. If you have very "high-end" equipment for home use, then a balanced connector is justified. If you have a moderately priced system, the difference is somewhat negligible.

Correct, due to professional equipment mostly having longer line level cables (as discussed above). Speaker and headphone output cables are not as susceptible to noise as are line level cables, although there are other reasons (besides noise) for having a high quality speaker/headphone output cable.