[Guts390]

Lol it's all good, sometimes I find I have to read the same thing 4-5 times until it really click to me. Definitely don't feel bad asking a few times.

But anyway, the tube thing, I totally get it lol. I avoided tube for soooooooo long. Who wants to deal with the 30 seconds delay start? Tube heating up like a light bulb and could potentially burn yourself? Also wasting the limit tube life when you just want to watch something on YouTube where sound quality doesn't matter? Then having to hunt through eBay looking for the legendary unicorn NOS (new old stock) tube only to find out it sounds meh and you've wasted your money? Yupe that's the life of tube amp owners.

That being said why we go through such lengths trying to find "tube sounding solid state" such as Piety and Pietus Maximus? Because tube sounds.... good!

Ok another example, I started with Dragonfly Red, and contrary to popular belief it does not sound neutral, it has a very specific sound signature. So I've been trying to find another solid state device with the same sound signature for so long. Bought and sold countless things. Only when I tried tube amp it was like AH is this what I've been looking for all this time? And I wasted how much money trial and error?

Ok not saying your first tube amp it will be your end game, you'd still need some trial and error but you know lol. Can't be avoided in this hobby. But there are definitely some stuff that's not replicatable in solid state. That and Lyr 3 is a tube hybrid, meaning it's tube input stage and solid stage output stage, so it's only 50% tube. But it's enough for you to see the "potential". Then you can try OTL later.

Anyway I'm rambling on too long. Point is, someone told me on hybrid amp it doesn't drive the tube as hard. So running it 8 hours a day it should last you something like 7 years.

So if you've never tried then don't be scared to try (I know because I was like that, but then I struggle to find a solid state amp that convince me to go back, I sold Piety and PMax). If this makes sense.

Makes sense and I really appreciate all the helpful feedback. Sounds like I should make my purchase decision 100% based on the sonic characteristics, and the lyr is also more expensive obviously. I'll give it some thought. They both seem great and I doubt I can go wrong either way. It's great to know that I shouldn't worry about tube life too much either

 

[Hofy]

Has anyone compared the PM against the Valhalla2? Sound stage, mids, bass.

 

[JonM78]

Has anyone compared the PM against the Valhalla2? Sound stage, mids, bass.

No but I am tempted to make that my next purchase. Hard for me to justify because the only high impedance headphone I have are my 660S2. But maybe I will buy one through the Classifieds.

 

[Hyde00]

No but I am tempted to make that my next purchase. Hard for me to justify because the only high impedance headphone I have are my 660S2. But maybe I will buy one through the Classifieds.

Same, I keep hearing tales of magical OTL amps but I only have low impedance headphone so I'm stuck with hybrid tube amp.

 

[Guts390]

Being a grado fanboy definitely keeps me away from OTL sadly

 

[michael2v]

Has anyone compared the PM against the Valhalla2? Sound stage, mids, bass.

I find them to be remarkably similar. The Valhalla 2 gives a nice bit of top end sparkle that I don’t get with the Asgard 3, but it’s very subtle, and overall the amp is still extremely solid-state sounding (tube rolling makes very little difference IMO). I think the PMax has a very similar presentation only with more versatility (e.g. the negative gain switch, internal DAC options). From my listening, the PMax does everything just as well as the V2 and then some (except for making tubes glow).

If you're only listening to dynamics, the V2 is a really fun amp. But it you are ever going to use IEMs, the V2 can be a little noisy even in low gain, and for planars, as low as the low-gain output impedance is, I think the musical dynamics are edged out by the even lower output impedance of a SS amp like the PMax (and in my experience, dynamic drivers don't really sing until you get into much higher output impedances, e.g. damping factors of 3-4x if not lower).

 

[Hofy]

I find them to be remarkably similar. The Valhalla 2 gives a nice bit of top end sparkle that I don’t get with the Asgard 3, but it’s very subtle, and overall the amp is still extremely solid-state sounding (tube rolling makes very little difference IMO). I think the PMax has a very similar presentation only with more versatility (e.g. the negative gain switch, internal DAC options). From my listening, the PMax does everything just as well as the V2 and then some (except for making tubes glow).

If you're only listening to dynamics, the V2 is a really fun amp. But it you are ever going to use IEMs, the V2 can be a little noisy even in low gain, and for planars, as low as the low-gain output impedance is, I think the musical dynamics are edged out by the even lower output impedance of a SS amp like the PMax (and in my experience, dynamic drivers don't really sing until you get into much higher output impedances, e.g. damping factors of 3-4x if not lower).

Thanks. I am still comparing the V2 against my A3. Lost a tube shortly after I got the V2 and just recently received replacements. All of my cans are 120 Ohm to 600 Ohm. With already owning these 2 amps I wonder if I would notice anything more from a PM.

 

[Luckyleo]

Same, I keep hearing tales of magical OTL amps but I only have low impedance headphone so I'm stuck with hybrid tube amp.

I can only relate my experiences. All my Grado's sound fantastic with my Feliks Audio Espressivio OTL amp. The same headphones fall apart (sonically) when listening via the Valhalla2. I know that the Grado's should not sound awesome on the Feliks Audio, but they do. You would think that if they sounded good on the Feliks, they should also sound good on the Valhalla 2 but they don't.

Not sure what is going on, but I'm sure it's going on!

Leo

 

[jonathan c]

I can only relate my experiences. All my Grado's sound fantastic with my Feliks Audio Espressivio OTL amp. The same headphones fall apart (sonically) when listening via the Valhalla2. I know that the Grado's should not sound awesome on the Feliks Audio, but they do. You would think that if they sounded good on the Feliks, they should also sound good on the Valhalla 2 but they don't.

Not sure what is going on, but I'm sure it's going on!

Leo

... the primary common trait between Espressivio and Valhalla 2 is the absence of an output transformer. The circuitry, input stages, output stages, tube selection / optimisation, etc - individually and in sum - leave plenty of room for sonic difference(s).

 

[Luckyleo]

... the primary common trait between Espressivio and Valhalla 2 is the absence of an output transformer. The circuitry, input stages, output stages, tube selection / optimisation, etc - individually and in sum - leave plenty of room for sonic difference(s).

Thanks for that info!

 

[Hyde00]

I know that the Grado's should not sound awesome on the Feliks Audio, but they do.

That's my first thought too, I'm surprised Grado sounds good on an OTL amp.

But which also makes sense now because I see so many TH900 (25 ohm) owners use Feliks Echo MK2 and was perfectly happy with it.

Maybe I need to try Feliks Echo MK2 one day.

Also extra bonus points for you to actually own the gear and listened to it to reach your conclusion. As oppose to read some numbers and be like this sounds bad according to the graph.

 

[jonathan c]

Also extra bonus points for you to actually own the gear and listened to it to reach your conclusion. As oppose to read some numbers and be like this sounds bad according to the graph.

.... which leads right into what I feel the ASR (audio science review) credo is:

"music is for losers who don't listen to graphs!"

 

[Beefy]

I know that the Grado's should not sound awesome on the Feliks Audio, but they do. You would think that if they sounded good on the Feliks, they should also sound good on the Valhalla 2 but they don't.

Also extra bonus points for you to actually own the gear and listened to it to reach your conclusion. As oppose to read some numbers and be like this sounds bad according to the graph.

"music is for losers who don't listen to graphs!"

I hate that I might defend the measurement crew here, but I mean, it's not at all hard to understand why someone might prefer a Grado from a high Z out amp, and it would be pretty easy to see why with the right measurements...... It's going to cause a huge bass bump, in phones that are typically bass light. And it's going to take a whole heap of edge off the treble, in phones that typically have a whole boatload of treble sizzle. Frequency response and impulse measurements will both show this pretty easily.

The question is, if you don't like how Grado are 'supposed' to sound, why keep the Grado? There are heaps of phones that will sound way better out of an OTL amp than a 'wrong' sounding Grado, with fuller bass and more even-handed treble. OTL works best with high impedance phones; chasing after odd unicorn combos just because seems a bit silly.

 

[jonathan c]

I hate that I might defend the measurement crew here, but I mean, it's not at all hard to understand why someone might prefer a Grado from a high Z out amp, and it would be pretty easy to see why with the right measurements...... It's going to cause a huge bass bump, in phones that are typically bass light. And it's going to take a whole heap of edge off the treble, in phones that typically have a whole boatload of treble sizzle. Frequency response and impulse measurements will both show this pretty easily.

The question is, if you don't like how Grado are 'supposed' to sound, why keep the Grado? There are heaps of phones that will sound way better out of an OTL amp than a 'wrong' sounding Grado, with fuller bass and more even-handed treble. OTL works best with high impedance phones; chasing after odd unicorn combos 'just because' seems a bit silly.

... it is not only 'just because'. The measured effects of high-Z h/p/a and low-Z h/p are as you say. If one likes the sound of those effects, well ... de gustibus non est disputandum .

 

[Luckyleo]

I hate that I might defend the measurement crew here, but I mean, it's not at all hard to understand why someone might prefer a Grado from a high Z out amp, and it would be pretty easy to see why with the right measurements...... It's going to cause a huge bass bump, in phones that are typically bass light. And it's going to take a whole heap of edge off the treble, in phones that typically have a whole boatload of treble sizzle. Frequency response and impulse measurements will both show this pretty easily.

The question is, if you don't like how Grado are 'supposed' to sound, why keep the Grado? There are heaps of phones that will sound way better out of an OTL amp than a 'wrong' sounding Grado, with fuller bass and more even-handed treble. OTL works best with high impedance phones; chasing after odd unicorn combos just because seems a bit silly.

Have you listened to Grado 3000x or RS1X via a Feliks Audio OTL AMP? Or any OTL for that matter. I've been listening to Grado for decades. I know how they are supposed to sound. The fact that they sound as good or better on this particular OTL amp than the best SS amp I've had is a fact for me. I don't notice bloated bass, the Grado sparkle is intact and wonderful. They are wonderful headphones on the Feliks, and garbage on the Valhalla 2.

Better check your measurements!