[Zachik]

From first post of this thread:

2. Balanced phone output with two JAN6418

How can this be done? This is technically impossible, so we cheated. The DAC circuit and headphone amplification circuit of N3Ultra are fully differentiated but the timbre circuit, since we are using a pair of JAN6418 only, is singled-ended. We need to perform Balanced to Single-end before the timbre circuit, and Single-ended to Balanced after the timbre circuit. While N3Ultra is not a fully differentiated design from source to output, we have included some serious engineering to handle the correction properly. We are so confident that we even explain the constraint in advance.

Can we install four JAN6418 into N3Ultra to achieve a genuine fully-balanced design? This will involve more space and we can easily achieve that by increasing the width of N3Pro by 10mm. Unfortunately, using a quad-set of JAN6418 will consume more power, shorten the duration, generate more heat, and increase background noise, those are the real problems that stop us from using four JAN6418 in U3Ultra.

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

Pre Order Done!

 

[DJ Core]

I'm intrigued - Can I confirm that the tube works with both 3.5mm and 4.4mm? What got me confused is:

"the tube timber circuit can only facilitate single-ended phone out, the balanced phone out is solid-state only"

and this

Yes, Tube Timbre will apply to all FOUR analog outputs, namely the

• 3.5mm single-ended phone out,
• 4.4mm balanced phone out,
• 3.5mm single-ended line out, and
• 4.4mm balanced line out.

From what I read and how I understood it, they designed the circuit as balanced to Single-end before the timbre circuit, and then send the Single-ended signal to Balance after the timbre circuit to get the tube sound on both 3.5 and 4.4.

The Gen3 Vacuum Tube Circuit delivers a fuller tube sound to both single-ended and balanced phone out and lines out of the DAP. Can't wait to try this out.

 

[Andykong]

Cayin will host a live stream to complete the N3Ultra launch exercise on 27th March 2024. As usual, I'll update this thread after the live stream with detailed specifications, a functional diagram, and a more complete description of the digital and analog implementation of N3Ultra.

 

[Andykong]

Can the n3ultra player OS have custom playlist and that you can easily add songs and rearrange song orders within the playlist? Is it based on Hiby's player app? I am asking because Hiby player app (which i use on Hiby r6pro2) whilst it allows you to add songs to a custom created playlist, you cannot rearrange songs order within it which is beyond my understanding why and defeats the purpose of a custom playlist.
Does EQ work globally also?

The N3Ultra will be preinstalled with the Cayin Music Application which is very much in line with the music player you find in N7 and N8ii. Unlike the previous arrangements, I don't have an engineering sample with me right now, we only make a handful of pre-production samples and run out of players after we send several units to attend the CanJam NYC. Therefore I can only guess your observation regarding playlist limitation will also be applied to the Music App in N3Ultra.

Since there is only one music player app in N3Ultra, the EQ will be globally applied by default.

 

[Andykong]

For a week I have been delving into the topic of tubes in portable devices on several threads.
DAP with tubes is a whole long path of problems and mutually exclusive adversities:
-Screen right above the tubes - potential interference
-The tubes get warm - this may affect the durability of the screen and the comfort of use over time
-The tubes may vibrate in the DAP - and this affects the music, so can I wear it and is it still a DAP?
-Of course, the tubes wear out after quite a long time - but will they be easy to replace?
-The tubes requires electricity - and in DAP we only have a battery
-Even two tubes - and they still cannot work in balanced mode because see the point above and there is no space to mount the required 4 tubes.
-Tubes AN6418 and Korg Nutubes ltubes are sensitive to electromagnetic interference - so you need to turn off WiFi and BT.
-Is the use of tubes just a "sugar coating" and act as a buffer before amplification - does it make sense?

I am not discouraged, on the contrary, the more I read, the more curious
I am about this issue and the level of advancement and complexity of the project and what new things they will bring to the market.

Caiyn is already known projects with tubes such as C9 and N30LE,
Astell & Kern is SP2000T, CA1000T.
Both companies have extensive experience in this field, but which of them will be better able to implement JAN6418 lamps in the new portable N3Ultra or SP3000T projects?
Will two different budgets allow this?

This is not a clash of audio giants based on specification numbers, but a fight against the laws of physics and showing the skills of their engineers.
I'm looking forward to testing them when I can.

PS. @Andykong Respect for your accessible and accurate descriptions of Cayin products and explanations of the details we ask about.
You are a role model for other companies.

Thanks for the good word, this is most encouraging.

To a certain extent, Cayin has an additional advantage because we have been working with vacuum tubes since the day we started our business 30 years ago, a lot of the techniques and methods we involved with Nutube and JAN6418 originated from our vacuum tube amplifiers and DAC for speaker applications. We have been fighting against microphonic and anti-vibration of audio-grade vacuum tubes for decades, we know what to look for, and the mechanical/circuitry options that are available when we are dealing with these problems.

The questions you raised are legitimate, but most of the problems have been handled in our previous products, the N3Pro DAP has a fairly decent track record regarding JAN6418 implementation. We have thousands of happy users using the tube audio feature of N3Pro during daily commutes or holding the DAP while walking around, if you were in doubt, you can check with N3Pro users in the official thread, or read the FQA of N3Pro to understand what we have up to in the past 3-4 years.

The N3Ultra is an integration and refinement product based on N3Pro. There is nothing revolutionary from our perspective, we simply update a well-received product with the technologies and experience we have accumulated in the past 3 years.

 

[Andykong]

Greetings!
I'd like to as whether the PEQ would support separate equalization for R and L channels.

The PEQ in N3Ultra does not facilitate the R and L channels independently.

 

[Andykong]

Following with great interest, I almost bought the N3pro many times - the Ultra might push me over the edge finally...

Maybe you'll be the first Watercooler to check out the N3Ultra?

 

[Andykong]

Yap, I still love my N3Pro too. Think will get N3U too as I would like to connect the tube LO to XD05PRO.

My C9 tray is gone, and don't know how long it would take to get a new tray (@Andykong can give some advice please?)

If I have the C9, can try the pre-out for N3U to see if it works fine.

Sorry, I was working with four new products concurrently (888 suits + N3Ultra), so I am falling behind and have forgotten about your C9 tray completely. Any update from your dealer? or service@cayin.cn?

N3Ultra does not have preamp output, unfortunately, so line out to C9 is your only choice.

 

[Andykong]

What is its power output?

I just received the draft copy of the N3Ultra specification (in Chinese) and am translating the tables into English.

Let me give you a quick reference point, the tube timbre 4.4mm headphone output offers 600mW per channel at 32ohm loading

 

[Andykong]

I wish you guys would've made a bigger screen on this for the price increase...I dont want DAPs that look like a Sony NX300 like its 7 years ago when there are others in this price range with full screens.

Bigger screen for the price increase? Did we increase the price significantly?

For the record, N3Pro retailed at US$479 (Aug 2020), and used a 3.2" 480x360 non-touch screen.

N3Ultra will retail at US$529 (April 2024), and it will use a 4.1" 720 x 1280 multi-point touchscreen

I thought the price increase was on par with the inflation adjustment plus semiconductor component adjustment in the past 4 years, right?

Yes, Redcarmoose and Twister6 are correct, screen size is a low-priority requirement when compared to tube glowing anti-vibration installation (yes, that takes up some space inside the DAP).

 

[jotaerre]

@Andikong,

global launch? I appreciate your time.

 

[Jeffyue]

Sorry, I was working with four new products concurrently (888 suits + N3Ultra), so I am falling behind and have forgotten about your C9 tray completely. Any update from your dealer? or service@cayin.cn?

I have put an order for a new tray with Zeppelin a month ago. Still hear nothing from them yet. Guess they are also waiting for update from your office.

@Andykong, can kindly nudge your team to expedite the C9 tray delivery please?

Btw, when the N3U available for order at Zeppelin pls?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Zachik]

Maybe you'll be the first Watercooler to check out the N3Ultra?

Too late for that... I already checked out the N3Ultra (as reported before)
So did several other Watercoolers at CanJam NYC.

 

[PeacockObscura]

Cross posting from the N7 thread
HELP! @Andykong my N7 discharged fully overnight now when I plug charger in nothing no charging light won't turn on I'm hoping there's trick to revive it Don't want an expensive brick

I'm presuming it discharged it had 80% battery when I turned it off now just nothing.