[LobalWarming]

70's (the only version that is sometimes available these days, and one people still rave about). Feel free to send me a 57' or 63', and I will gladly compare them. I always wanted to hear the earlier version, however seeing as that tube is impossible to find, it's kind of a moot point anyway.

That's very kind of you to offer me a chance to send you one of my 1578s for an ancient vs fresh comparo.

Here's a 1955 Melz 68NS for not much more than a new shiny ray. Not a 'true' 1578, but 50s Melz 68NS sound better to my jaded ears than 70s 1578s. And most of the 60s production as well. Might be worth having a 3-way comparison. I'm happy to return your kindness by assisting you to spend your money.

 

[Wes S]

That's very kind of you to offer me a chance to send you one of my 1578s for an ancient vs fresh comparo.

Here's a 1955 Melz 68NS for not much more than a new shiny ray. Not a 'true' 1578, but 50s Melz 68NS sound better to my jaded ears than 70s 1578s. And most of the 60s production as well. Might be worth having a 3-way comparison. I'm happy to return your kindness by assisting you to spend your money.

Some love the early 50's Russian "house sound" and that's great. I have quite a few 50's Russian tubes that I love too, so I can relate. As for the Apos RAY 6SN7 Reserve it plays in the same league no doubt.

 

[michael2v]

Hot off the presses...

When we announced our Apos Ray Reserve tubes, one of the key pieces of feedback we heard from the community was that the original 3-month warranty wasn’t long enough for such a premium product. We totally agree, and that’s why we’re extending it to a full twelve months. But we didn’t stop there: we’re extending the warranty for all Apos Ray tubes to 12 months. We’re incredibly proud of our hand-selected and rigorously tested vacuum tubes, and we hope this warranty extension underscores our confidence in their durability and performance.

 

[Wes S]

Hot off the presses...

That makes much more sense, and was a good move by Apos.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[g0ldl10n]

Hot off the presses...

There are some NIB/NOS vendors I purchase 60+ year old tubes that have a 1 year warranty... sure, it's better than 3 months but 12mo warranty seems like it should have never been a question for the price point.

Also, with Apos completely ignoring and disregarding questions in regards to the manufacturing shows about zero confidence in their own product. Why else would you literally give the cold shoulder to such questions? They've literally acted like those questions posed to them didn't even exist - oh well - that tells me all I need to know and will keep my money in my wallet concerning the Reserves, and any others they sell under their brand.

Rebranding is as old as time itself in this sector going back decades if not a century. Just by looking at the current players in the market (especially geographically) and the internals, it should not be a mystery who makes this tube if matters like these really keeps one up at night. If price is giving you nightmares, go pick up JJ’s or go solid state and call it a day. Or you can keep holding your breath for the new “Western Electric” trademark to release their 6SN7's (hint: they are allegedly not going to be cheap either and have zero track record if they are ever released…)

Quite frankly, it’s great that anyone out there is trying to bring out quality tubes in this day and age. At least re-branders will screen out garbage quality tubes and give you somewhat good quality tubes under their banner like what I think Apos is trying to do here. Ironically, today is actually the 2nd anniversary of an event which heavily dictates the current state of tubes today. In my opinion, being a cheapofile and trying to save a few bucks on tubes isn’t worth subpar quality or questionable “NOS” tubes in 2024. Good tubes will last you years if not decades of regular enjoyment.

Re: rebranded tubes… I am staring at my stash of tubes where some of them do not bear their namesake’s trademark and are branded under a re-labelers trademark… These same “rebranded” Telefunkens, RCA's, (OG) Mullards and Tung-Sols go for a premium today where they were picked up for pennies on the dollar or were even throw-aways because they were “rebranded” back in the day. I have no experience if these Apos' are quality, but I am willing to pay a premium for quality and not cheap out for tubes.

Lastly, I don't know if you are responding to me or someone else - I never spoke specifically towards rebranding let alone saying anything negative about it - straw men everywhere it seems. The major problem with you responding to me and not @Apos Audio is that everything you just said in regards to Apos is pure speculation. I think for the price point the Reserves are selling at, pure speculation in regards to any of the questions I asked is unacceptable.

For example, you stated, "At least re-branders will screen out garbage quality tubes and give you somewhat good quality tubes under their banner like what I think Apos is trying to do here." and then went on to say in your last line, "I have no experience if these Apos' are quality..." - these two speculative statements obviously don't belong in the same response to my questions, not only because they are contradictory, but because never did I say anything in regards to rebranding at all. You know, if Apos is somehow screening out the garbage as you say, and is providing a very solid product that sounds great and will last 5,000 hours+ then that'd be great! But again, how are we supposed to know when they completely ignore any inquiries into this?

Oh, and btw, not choosing to spend premium priced monies when all someone has is speculation to go off of in regards to its actual quality is not "cheaping out for tubes".

 

[pastorernie]

I do not know what Apos can do to allay fears about this new 6sn7 Reserve tube. I wrote about this in an earlier post. In appearance it is identical to PsVane 181s, a well known and highly regarded tube that is stock in a number of amps. I have listened to the PsVane 181s for hundreds of hours. I was surprised when I opened the box and saw that the tubes were identical except the color of the base and hazing. But it sounds different. It is neutral and clear, not that the PsVane 181s were closed or compressed, just better. Also, without regard to the PsVane 181s, the sound is natural, with good extension on both ends. The timbre is excellent, the soundstage is good. The tube just disappears. One may prefer certain coloring in their tubes, I like warm and full, but this is a good tube, in my opinion worth it's cost. I am happily surprised. Since it is so similar in construction to the PsVane 181s, I would be very surprised if it was less reliable.

 

[4udio7ool]

Schiit Lyr+ owners considering this tube might want to wait. I received one a couple of days ago and the microphonics are really bad. Any time I touch the Lyr+ or even slightly move the headphone cable (Hart Cables replacement) there's noise in the left channel. On low gain it's bearable as I don't hear it during music playback but on high gain it's quite bad. I've contacted Apos support for help hoping it's just a damaged tube since the outer shipping box arrived significantly damaged (Apos Ray tube box itself is fine).

It does sound quite good otherwise though.

 

[dadracer2]

Would I be wrong in guessing this Apos valve is not made by Apos in which case it would be helpful id Apos said who manufactures them and there is no shame in that. I mean Audio Note have one of their newish 300b valvs made by PSVane to their specs. Lots of companies do this. At least be transparent about it.

 

[pastorernie]

It’s an upgraded PSVane 181.

 

[robo24]

It’s an upgraded PSVane 181.

Since my Envy came with those it's been easy enough to compare. At least on a quick comparison I hear very little if any difference between the 2 tubes. Funny, when I first put the Apos Reserve in with Elrogs I thought they sounded quite good. Then I put the PSVanes in and couldn't really hear much difference. Never easy comparing tubes without huge differences since it's based on memory and the hot tubes need to cool some and the newly installed ones need time to sound their best. When I put the Apos back in being just on a minute I thought they actually sounded worse, though they recommend having them on longer than that before listening and of course since I just got the Apos they only have about 20 hours on them and the PSVanes have hundreds of hours. I guess the good news is the PSVanes are better than I thought. I barely used them since I already had better 6SN7s when the Envy arrived. I'll spend some more time comparing on different headphones. So far this is just on the Verite Open. Initial impressions is they're excellent tubes, but not sure if they're worth the premium over the PSVanes aside from a warranty.

Update: Spent all morning going back and forth between the 2 sets of tubes with different headphones and 300Bs. I'd be shocked if they're not exactly the same tube because they sound identical. Good tubes but the PSVane branded ones are like 1/3 of the price on AliExpress. That they've ignored this specific question sort of tells me this is what they are. Why are they saying 95% are rejected? So 95% of the Apos banded ones with different colored bases that are just sitting around and they don't know what to do with? That sounds extremely suspect. Maybe they're in the top 5% of PSVanes or something. Sophia Electric are all rebrands that claim to be tubes held to higher standards and others have figured out what various Chinese tubes they actually are. It sure seems like Apos could have easily stated they designed these, what the differences are from the PSVanes that everyone can tell look the same but they haven't. Like a PSVane design using different materials would at least be a different tube but they're not even claiming that.

 

[Wes S]

Since my Envy came with those it's been easy enough to compare. At least on a quick comparison I hear very little if any difference between the 2 tubes. Funny, when I first put the Apos Reserve in with Elrogs I thought they sounded quite good. Then I put the PSVanes in and couldn't really hear much difference. Never easy comparing tubes without huge differences since it's based on memory and the hot tubes need to cool some and the newly installed ones need time to sound their best. When I put the Apos back in being just on a minute I thought they actually sounded worse, though they recommend having them on longer than that before listening and of course since I just got the Apos they only have about 20 hours on them and the PSVanes have hundreds of hours. I guess the good news is the PSVanes are better than I thought. I barely used them since I already had better 6SN7s when the Envy arrived. I'll spend some more time comparing on different headphones. So far this is just on the Verite Open. Initial impressions is they're excellent tubes, but not sure if they're worth the premium over the PSVanes aside from a warranty.

I am listening with the Reserve right now, and they are fantastic tubes with excellent balance top to bottom. I am using my WE300B's and the tone and timbre is spot on, and the vocals are really sweet and present. They do just get out of the way, and sound very natural.

The only other new production 6SN7 I own are the Tung Sol, so I was curious how they stack up to the Psvanes, and thanks for sharing. The Reserve blow the Tung Sols out of the water and certainly hold their own against some of my better NOS tubes, and have earned a spot in my rotation no doubt.

 

[4udio7ool]

My Reserve is approved for return to Apos. Since it is only the left channel having issues, I think it is the tube rather than an issue with using a Reserve with a Schiit Lyr+. Apos support apparently agrees. I did do a quick A/B with the stock Lyr+ Tung Sol tube before packing the Reserve. I agree with @Wes S, the difference is significant. I was pleasantly surprised that is easily apparent considering the Lyr+ is a hybrid tube amp.

 

[Wes S]

Woke up early just to squeeze in a little listening time.

The Apos Ray 6SN7 Reserve in the driver spot, and sounding absolutely fantastic.

 

[Jose in Jersey]

There are some NIB/NOS vendors I purchase 60+ year old tubes that have a 1 year warranty... sure, it's better than 3 months but 12mo warranty seems like it should have never been a question for the price point.

Also, with Apos completely ignoring and disregarding questions in regards to the manufacturing shows about zero confidence in their own product. Why else would you literally give the cold shoulder to such questions? They've literally acted like those questions posed to them didn't even exist - oh well - that tells me all I need to know and will keep my money in my wallet concerning the Reserves, and any others they sell under their brand.


Lastly, I don't know if you are responding to me or someone else - I never spoke specifically towards rebranding let alone saying anything negative about it - straw men everywhere it seems. The major problem with you responding to me and not @Apos Audio is that everything you just said in regards to Apos is pure speculation. I think for the price point the Reserves are selling at, pure speculation in regards to any of the questions I asked is unacceptable.

For example, you stated, "At least re-branders will screen out garbage quality tubes and give you somewhat good quality tubes under their banner like what I think Apos is trying to do here." and then went on to say in your last line, "I have no experience if these Apos' are quality..." - these two speculative statements obviously don't belong in the same response to my questions, not only because they are contradictory, but because never did I say anything in regards to rebranding at all. You know, if Apos is somehow screening out the garbage as you say, and is providing a very solid product that sounds great and will last 5,000 hours+ then that'd be great! But again, how are we supposed to know when they completely ignore any inquiries into this?

Oh, and btw, not choosing to spend premium priced monies when all someone has is speculation to go off of in regards to its actual quality is not "cheaping out for tubes".

Generally, when your post is quoted, the comment or inquiry was directed to you. Just like now.

If you have your vendor(s) to buy your sixty plus year old tubes, keep at. Or better yet, please share with the community because there are many neophytes out there who could benefit from your vast expertise including myself. Barring that, Apos said their warranty is 3 months. As stated, they may or may not revisit that time frame, so either take it or leave it.

Help me to understand then, what were you talking about then when you kept mentioning "commissioning?" Commissioning someone to do something usually means a party hired another party to do something, no? A.K.A. “Rebranding” under this fact pattern. If I was mistaken and that wasn't your intent, apologies and please clarify for my edification.

Fair enough you are correct, I have no experience with the product in question, so I’ll bow out so people who actually purchased said product, A.K.A. people who actually have something worthwhile to contribute can do their thing, unlike myself here. I look forward to some write ups and best of luck to Apos here for trying to do something positive for the community in this day and age. Hopefully their tubes last sixty plus years so they don't require any waranty and their price is amortiarized as to not offend delicate sensibilities.

 

[Xerosnake90]

It’s an upgraded PSVane 181.

I just got my 181 in today and it's a nice upgrade from the UK tube I was using. I might just grab this one if it's a step up from that