fusedpro
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Schiit Asgard or Matrix M-Stage are two highly recommended amplifiers in that price bracket. I use the Asgard with my HD580 (AMAZING headphones, by the way) and they pair wonderfully.
HD598 vs. HD650
- Thread starter hardtrance
- Start date
PeterMcG
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I am not an audiophile. I have been listening to Music night and day since the early 1960s. I know no technical terms and I apologize in advance for possibly misusing some.
I just spent an hour and a half listening to both of these headphones. It was very interesting. We started out with a high end CD player (I never found out the name) plugged into a Burson HD 160D headphone amp. We listened to a few cd songs from Oscar Brown Jr's "Sin and Soul" and then a few cd songs from Eva Cassidy's "Songbird".
My first impression was that I liked the HD650 a little better. The most pronounced difference was in the bass. The bass on the HD598 was 'muddy' and somewhat overpowered the sound. The bass on the HD650 was very distinct, sharp, and punchy. I could discern each bass note and hear the instrumentation as individual notes. I loved the bass on the HD650. The treble was a tiny bit sharp for me...BUT that also gave a clearness and dynamism to the music. The midtones were also nice and were separate from the lower and higher tones.
I switched back and forth many times and was always surprised.
The soundstage on the HD598 was superior and more pleasing to me. There seemed to be more space in which the music was being played on HD598. The HD650 had a nice soundstage also...but everything seemed closer to my ears.
The winner...the HD650.
Then we plugged my FIIo E10 into the USB port of a Windows 7 computer. I had brought along some FLAC files to listen to. I was interested to see how the E10 drove the HD650 since I had read in these forums how difficult it was to drive.
The first song we listened to was "Magic Bus" by The Who. Again a very clean and more neutral sound from the HD650. But this time the treble was a little overbearing. It could be that the Fiio E10 (which is powered from the USB port) wasn't a good match for the HD650. And again the bass on the HD598 was a bit 'thuddy' and overbearing. My thought was that i would like something in between; a pair of cans with the bass and clarity of highs of the HD650 with the mids and soundstage of the HD598.
Two of the songs we played weren't good copies: "Take Five" by Dave Brubeck and "My Guy" by Mary Wells. On the HD650 these songs sounded shrill and displeasing. The HD598 warmed them up a bit with its chocolate pudding bass and warmer mids. It seemed way more forgiving of the poor quality..
Then we moved to "Fast car" by Tracy Chapman and I was back to appreciating the HD650s.The opening guitar sounded heavenly as did Tracy Chapman's voice. The HD598s were good, but ultimately too veiled and muddied compared to the HD650. The voice was great, but the guitar playing seemed as if it had moved behind a door into another room. It just wasn't as present and clear as on the HD650s. The same thing happened with "Tell Her No" by the Zombies.
We then plugged the Burson into the USB port of the computer and listened to the same flacs. The Burson warmed things up a bit from the E10 but surprisingly, there wasn't as much difference as I thought there would be.
The HD598s are mine and have been played maybe 100 hours. The HD650s are my cousins and he has had them over a year.
In the end I think i would prefer the HD650s if I had a choice. But I would miss the great mids and soundstage of the HD598.
My conclusion...the comparison showed me what I might be missing. I was surprised at the large amount of difference between the two head phones. Over all, I preferred the HD650. Still, this test was only an hour and a half. I might have felt differently over time.
Still...if I were to upgrade (which I am sure I will) it wouldn't be to the HD650. I'm too hooked on the HD598 soundstage and vocal clarity. Also the treble on some songs seemed a little too sharp for me on the HD650. But the HD650 bass made me smile and also made me frown when I heard the same bass notes on the HD598. I would trade the HD598s for the HD650s though
.
The best part of the entire experience? The guitar work on Tracy Chapman's "Fast car" on the HD650s.
Thanks for reading!
Peter McGovern
I just spent an hour and a half listening to both of these headphones. It was very interesting. We started out with a high end CD player (I never found out the name) plugged into a Burson HD 160D headphone amp. We listened to a few cd songs from Oscar Brown Jr's "Sin and Soul" and then a few cd songs from Eva Cassidy's "Songbird".
My first impression was that I liked the HD650 a little better. The most pronounced difference was in the bass. The bass on the HD598 was 'muddy' and somewhat overpowered the sound. The bass on the HD650 was very distinct, sharp, and punchy. I could discern each bass note and hear the instrumentation as individual notes. I loved the bass on the HD650. The treble was a tiny bit sharp for me...BUT that also gave a clearness and dynamism to the music. The midtones were also nice and were separate from the lower and higher tones.
I switched back and forth many times and was always surprised.
The soundstage on the HD598 was superior and more pleasing to me. There seemed to be more space in which the music was being played on HD598. The HD650 had a nice soundstage also...but everything seemed closer to my ears.
The winner...the HD650.
Then we plugged my FIIo E10 into the USB port of a Windows 7 computer. I had brought along some FLAC files to listen to. I was interested to see how the E10 drove the HD650 since I had read in these forums how difficult it was to drive.
The first song we listened to was "Magic Bus" by The Who. Again a very clean and more neutral sound from the HD650. But this time the treble was a little overbearing. It could be that the Fiio E10 (which is powered from the USB port) wasn't a good match for the HD650. And again the bass on the HD598 was a bit 'thuddy' and overbearing. My thought was that i would like something in between; a pair of cans with the bass and clarity of highs of the HD650 with the mids and soundstage of the HD598.
Two of the songs we played weren't good copies: "Take Five" by Dave Brubeck and "My Guy" by Mary Wells. On the HD650 these songs sounded shrill and displeasing. The HD598 warmed them up a bit with its chocolate pudding bass and warmer mids. It seemed way more forgiving of the poor quality..
Then we moved to "Fast car" by Tracy Chapman and I was back to appreciating the HD650s.The opening guitar sounded heavenly as did Tracy Chapman's voice. The HD598s were good, but ultimately too veiled and muddied compared to the HD650. The voice was great, but the guitar playing seemed as if it had moved behind a door into another room. It just wasn't as present and clear as on the HD650s. The same thing happened with "Tell Her No" by the Zombies.
We then plugged the Burson into the USB port of the computer and listened to the same flacs. The Burson warmed things up a bit from the E10 but surprisingly, there wasn't as much difference as I thought there would be.
The HD598s are mine and have been played maybe 100 hours. The HD650s are my cousins and he has had them over a year.
In the end I think i would prefer the HD650s if I had a choice. But I would miss the great mids and soundstage of the HD598.
My conclusion...the comparison showed me what I might be missing. I was surprised at the large amount of difference between the two head phones. Over all, I preferred the HD650. Still, this test was only an hour and a half. I might have felt differently over time.
Still...if I were to upgrade (which I am sure I will) it wouldn't be to the HD650. I'm too hooked on the HD598 soundstage and vocal clarity. Also the treble on some songs seemed a little too sharp for me on the HD650. But the HD650 bass made me smile and also made me frown when I heard the same bass notes on the HD598. I would trade the HD598s for the HD650s though
. The best part of the entire experience? The guitar work on Tracy Chapman's "Fast car" on the HD650s.
Thanks for reading!
Peter McGovern
tdockweiler
Headphoneus Supremus
Sounds like you may have had some very bad synergy there with the HD-598 and possibly amp overkill. Not sure if that's even possible.
Have you tried any other amps with the HD-598 other than the Burson or E10? Maybe the E10 is too warm/dark for the HD-598?
I understand impressions and ears are always different, but there is 100% no way an HD-598 can have any of the following as you described when properly driven:
"a bit 'thuddy' and overbearing bass" (it's bass is probably comparable in quantity to an Q701 IMO!)
"chocolate pudding bass and warmer mids" (HD-650/600 is WAY too warm for me. The HD-598 is just right)
"too veiled and muddied compared to the HD650" (The HD-598 is the first Sennheiser to me that DIDN'T feel veiled.)
Then how the HD-650 can have shrill highs. Huh?! The HD-650 is the complete opposite of that and the HD-598 has much more treble.
If you ask 100 people here, I think they will agree that the HD-650 is much warmer and more bassy than the HD-598.
Are you sure you didn't confuse the two
Whatyou described is closer to my impressions of the HD-650!
Sorry, I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but those impressions are a bit strange.
Have you tried any other amps with the HD-598 other than the Burson or E10? Maybe the E10 is too warm/dark for the HD-598?
I understand impressions and ears are always different, but there is 100% no way an HD-598 can have any of the following as you described when properly driven:
"a bit 'thuddy' and overbearing bass" (it's bass is probably comparable in quantity to an Q701 IMO!)
"chocolate pudding bass and warmer mids" (HD-650/600 is WAY too warm for me. The HD-598 is just right)
"too veiled and muddied compared to the HD650" (The HD-598 is the first Sennheiser to me that DIDN'T feel veiled.)
Then how the HD-650 can have shrill highs. Huh?! The HD-650 is the complete opposite of that and the HD-598 has much more treble.
If you ask 100 people here, I think they will agree that the HD-650 is much warmer and more bassy than the HD-598.
Are you sure you didn't confuse the two
Sorry, I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but those impressions are a bit strange.
oaklandrkg
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Do the 598s sound similar to the 595s?
My first audiophile headphone was the 595s and I eventually upgraded to the 650s.
My ears tell me that there's not much of anything that the 595 excels at or can even match the 650 in, while on the flip-side the 650 has a decisive advantage over the 595 in many areas; bass, mids, detail and presence all immediately come to mind. I'm not sure how closely related the 598 is to the 595, so perhaps what I'm saying here might not have much bearing on this threads topic, but IMO the 650 represents a whole other class of sound than the 595. It's not so much that the 650 is superior in certain areas, it's that the 650 is simply superior. But like I said, the 598 might be totally different beasts than the 595, in which case what I'm saying isn't all that relevant.
Either way, I'd like to share with you a game I like to play using both the 595 and 650. Months after upgrading to the 650, I began wondering if there really was that much of a difference between the two cans and that I might be able to return to the 595 and find some new appreciation for it, or so I thought, so I sat down and did a side by side comparison of the two and thus the game was born. To my ears the difference between the two is immediate; the 650 safety-dances circles around the 595. Since then, whenever I've grown a bit bored of my 650 and I want to re-up my appreciation for its awesomeness, I'll play the game. Even though the results are always the same, that's exactly why it's fun to play it in the first place.
Quote:
I thought the same thing too. From my experience with the 650 and the 595, when I read his assessment I sort of assumed he got the 650 and the 598 mixed up too. Who knows though, maybe that's what he's hearing... maybe.
Quote:
If you want to believe that they make an impact on what you're hearing that's fine with me. However, for all the people who are somewhat new to the game and are curious over the claims being made about after-market cables similar to the ones from the above quote, I strongly suggest that you make after-market cables your lowest priority until you have experience listening to several different levels of headphones and amps/DACS, or in the very least, not before reading for yourself some objective research on the subject (spoiler alert: the mind is a powerful thing).
My first audiophile headphone was the 595s and I eventually upgraded to the 650s.
My ears tell me that there's not much of anything that the 595 excels at or can even match the 650 in, while on the flip-side the 650 has a decisive advantage over the 595 in many areas; bass, mids, detail and presence all immediately come to mind. I'm not sure how closely related the 598 is to the 595, so perhaps what I'm saying here might not have much bearing on this threads topic, but IMO the 650 represents a whole other class of sound than the 595. It's not so much that the 650 is superior in certain areas, it's that the 650 is simply superior. But like I said, the 598 might be totally different beasts than the 595, in which case what I'm saying isn't all that relevant.
Either way, I'd like to share with you a game I like to play using both the 595 and 650. Months after upgrading to the 650, I began wondering if there really was that much of a difference between the two cans and that I might be able to return to the 595 and find some new appreciation for it, or so I thought, so I sat down and did a side by side comparison of the two and thus the game was born. To my ears the difference between the two is immediate; the 650 safety-dances circles around the 595. Since then, whenever I've grown a bit bored of my 650 and I want to re-up my appreciation for its awesomeness, I'll play the game. Even though the results are always the same, that's exactly why it's fun to play it in the first place.
Quote:
Sounds like you may have had some very bad synergy there with the HD-598 and possibly amp overkill. Not sure if that's even possible.
Have you tried any other amps with the HD-598 other than the Burson or E10? Maybe the E10 is too warm/dark for the HD-598?
I understand impressions and ears are always different, but there is 100% no way an HD-598 can have any of the following as you described when properly driven:
"a bit 'thuddy' and overbearing bass" (it's bass is probably comparable in quantity to an Q701 IMO!)
"chocolate pudding bass and warmer mids" (HD-650/600 is WAY too warm for me. The HD-598 is just right)
"too veiled and muddied compared to the HD650" (The HD-598 is the first Sennheiser to me that DIDN'T feel veiled.)
Then how the HD-650 can have shrill highs. Huh?! The HD-650 is the complete opposite of that and the HD-598 has much more treble.
If you ask 100 people here, I think they will agree that the HD-650 is much warmer and more bassy than the HD-598.
Are you sure you didn't confuse the twoWhatyou described is closer to my impressions of the HD-650!
Sorry, I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but those impressions are a bit strange.
I thought the same thing too. From my experience with the 650 and the 595, when I read his assessment I sort of assumed he got the 650 and the 598 mixed up too. Who knows though, maybe that's what he's hearing... maybe.
Quote:
If you want to believe that they make an impact on what you're hearing that's fine with me. However, for all the people who are somewhat new to the game and are curious over the claims being made about after-market cables similar to the ones from the above quote, I strongly suggest that you make after-market cables your lowest priority until you have experience listening to several different levels of headphones and amps/DACS, or in the very least, not before reading for yourself some objective research on the subject (spoiler alert: the mind is a powerful thing).
gokica
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595s/598 are in a way less colored comparing to 650. This contributes a lot to the wider sound stage feeling in favor of 595/598. When it comes to the airy sound maybe AKG is "the shop" appropriate for placing an order.
Personal thoughts i.e. subjective statement: 650 is an upgrade from 595 only for people that are looking for a situation in which they want "to feel the sound" (warmth) instead of analyze it.
Personal thoughts i.e. subjective statement: 650 is an upgrade from 595 only for people that are looking for a situation in which they want "to feel the sound" (warmth) instead of analyze it.
MattTCG
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So if I'm looking for a more detailed and articulate sound in the upper register then 598's would be better? I already have d2000's for bass.
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The HD600 and HD650 both have good sound quality. They merely present sound in different ways. Anyone who gets hung up on model numbers can not have spent enough time with the two
Quote:
HD600 + HD650 cable = all the benefits of the inherent HD600 sound tightened up, without the odd masking and veil of the HD650
Quote:
HD600 + HD650 cable = all the benefits of the inherent HD600 sound tightened up, without the odd masking and veil of the HD650
nicholars
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Personally I was not very impressed with the HD598 (brief audition in a shop admittedly)... The HD650 however are in a different league IMO
tdockweiler
Headphoneus Supremus
With the HD-600/650 and 598 it all comes down to preference in the end. I think none of them are perfect for every genre and it's just best to pick the one that matches your sound signature.
I can perfectly understand some may think the HD-650 is better for them and yes, it is technically better (or so they say).
The HD-600 just doesn't do it for me. It's sound just isn't that engaging for me and puts me to sleep. Strangely enough, the HD-598 has less bass but it's more fun to listen to. It's mids are just plain addicting. Sure it has less forward upper mids perhaps, but it's the one I prefer for my music. I felt that since I listen to a very high percentage of female vocals and pop music the HD-598 was a good match. I always got the impression from the HD-598 that it was less muffled and had more treble than the HD-600/650. Is this true? Not really sure, but that's what my ears hear.
If I had to pick between the HD-650 and HD-600 for female vocals I'd pick the HD-650 without any doubt. It's soundstage felt more closed in and less airy than the HD-600. I'll have to admit I'm not a fan of it's thicker mids and it's much too warm for me. I tried to deal with this, but I don't like headphones like this. For a month I tried to deal with it's treble and it felt OK for music, but when I used it for gaming, the sound was just so dark. The bass killed it for me too. The HD-650 butchers some acoustic music such as the album "In the Heart of the Moon". Very muffled with some bass that seems to obscure some detail that should be there. I even went as far as switching amps and DACs for my HD-650.
When I got the HD-600 it's as if someone opened a window or something. So much brighter and clearer than the HD-650. The first thing that caught my attention is how much less bass it had and the extra treble.
There's this weird thing that's super hard to describe about the differences between the HD-598, HD-600 and HD-650. It feels that the HD-650 is the least grainy between all of them. I could only tell the difference between the HD-600 and HD-650 with this issue only when it came to specific music with a large soundstage. In everything else it felt like it was all in my head. Now what stinks is that at the same time, the HD-598 sounds clearer (when you don't over-analyze it). Don't ask me how this is possible and there's two different things I'm trying to describe. The slightly grainier sound of the HD-598 is NOT a veil. The HD-600/650 just always sound muffled in comparison to the HD-598. Weird, I know. Yes, I said the 598 is the grainiest sounding between all 3, yet comes across as the clearest. What the heck? Maybe it's just due to all the extra treble. Maybe someone can describe this all better than I can. No, I'm not crazy I swear!
One reason I do love the HD-598 is the more forward mids over the HD-600/650. On graphs it doesn't always look this way, but when you compare all 3 it's easy to tell. Despite the forward mids of the HD-598, the HD-598 sounds smoother and more balanced than the HD-600/650 to my ears.
I never liked this idea that the HD-650 is totally not fatiguing. To me, the HD-598 is actually less fatiguing than the HD-600/650. I know some find that hard to believe. Yet the HD-598 never bores me to death. The HD-600 is a nice headphone (I have the HD-580 currently), but something about it makes me want to fall asleep.
BTW about the cables..I found that when you put the HD-650 cable on the hD-600 it adds the impression of a larger soundstage, more treble and more bass. The negative is that you get less mids and this makes perfect sense! I guess it's kind of like a balancing act and you can't have everything. I don't like the HD-650 cable on the HD-600. I know it annoys people to hear this, but I always felt the HD-600/650 suddenly becomes less "veiled" when you remove it's stock cable. I only started thinking this when I soldered the HD-650 cable to an old headphone. Try it out
I can perfectly understand some may think the HD-650 is better for them and yes, it is technically better (or so they say).
The HD-600 just doesn't do it for me. It's sound just isn't that engaging for me and puts me to sleep. Strangely enough, the HD-598 has less bass but it's more fun to listen to. It's mids are just plain addicting. Sure it has less forward upper mids perhaps, but it's the one I prefer for my music. I felt that since I listen to a very high percentage of female vocals and pop music the HD-598 was a good match. I always got the impression from the HD-598 that it was less muffled and had more treble than the HD-600/650. Is this true? Not really sure, but that's what my ears hear.
If I had to pick between the HD-650 and HD-600 for female vocals I'd pick the HD-650 without any doubt. It's soundstage felt more closed in and less airy than the HD-600. I'll have to admit I'm not a fan of it's thicker mids and it's much too warm for me. I tried to deal with this, but I don't like headphones like this. For a month I tried to deal with it's treble and it felt OK for music, but when I used it for gaming, the sound was just so dark. The bass killed it for me too. The HD-650 butchers some acoustic music such as the album "In the Heart of the Moon". Very muffled with some bass that seems to obscure some detail that should be there. I even went as far as switching amps and DACs for my HD-650.
When I got the HD-600 it's as if someone opened a window or something. So much brighter and clearer than the HD-650. The first thing that caught my attention is how much less bass it had and the extra treble.
There's this weird thing that's super hard to describe about the differences between the HD-598, HD-600 and HD-650. It feels that the HD-650 is the least grainy between all of them. I could only tell the difference between the HD-600 and HD-650 with this issue only when it came to specific music with a large soundstage. In everything else it felt like it was all in my head. Now what stinks is that at the same time, the HD-598 sounds clearer (when you don't over-analyze it). Don't ask me how this is possible and there's two different things I'm trying to describe. The slightly grainier sound of the HD-598 is NOT a veil. The HD-600/650 just always sound muffled in comparison to the HD-598. Weird, I know. Yes, I said the 598 is the grainiest sounding between all 3, yet comes across as the clearest. What the heck? Maybe it's just due to all the extra treble. Maybe someone can describe this all better than I can. No, I'm not crazy I swear!
One reason I do love the HD-598 is the more forward mids over the HD-600/650. On graphs it doesn't always look this way, but when you compare all 3 it's easy to tell. Despite the forward mids of the HD-598, the HD-598 sounds smoother and more balanced than the HD-600/650 to my ears.
I never liked this idea that the HD-650 is totally not fatiguing. To me, the HD-598 is actually less fatiguing than the HD-600/650. I know some find that hard to believe. Yet the HD-598 never bores me to death. The HD-600 is a nice headphone (I have the HD-580 currently), but something about it makes me want to fall asleep.
BTW about the cables..I found that when you put the HD-650 cable on the hD-600 it adds the impression of a larger soundstage, more treble and more bass. The negative is that you get less mids and this makes perfect sense! I guess it's kind of like a balancing act and you can't have everything. I don't like the HD-650 cable on the HD-600. I know it annoys people to hear this, but I always felt the HD-600/650 suddenly becomes less "veiled" when you remove it's stock cable. I only started thinking this when I soldered the HD-650 cable to an old headphone. Try it out
PeterMcG
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Hey Folks,
I did not get the 598 and the 650 mixed up, lol. I stick by my statements. I will say..that when I listen at home (all the comparisons were done at my cousin's house) the HD598s fare better. But I used the same dac/amp combo (the Fiio E10) and brought my flac files over to his house. I'm not sure about Tdockweiler's objectivity only because he has listened to the HD598 with so many different cables I wonder if he recalls the original stock cable HD598 sound any more. Still, his enthusiasm played a large part in my purchase of the HD598s so I am grateful to him for that.
I'll listen again in the next day or so and post my post comparison opinions following that.
Now I am looking for a supplemental set of cans. At the moment I'm thinking of the Grado PS500s.
I did not get the 598 and the 650 mixed up, lol. I stick by my statements. I will say..that when I listen at home (all the comparisons were done at my cousin's house) the HD598s fare better. But I used the same dac/amp combo (the Fiio E10) and brought my flac files over to his house. I'm not sure about Tdockweiler's objectivity only because he has listened to the HD598 with so many different cables I wonder if he recalls the original stock cable HD598 sound any more. Still, his enthusiasm played a large part in my purchase of the HD598s so I am grateful to him for that.
I'll listen again in the next day or so and post my post comparison opinions following that.
Now I am looking for a supplemental set of cans. At the moment I'm thinking of the Grado PS500s.
Heiku
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i agree that 598 sound a bit muffled with guitar and bass, i can't explain. I listen to PF, how do i call it? Recessed
Mattybumpkin
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I wouldn't say muffled, maybe recessed, or "full" sounding.
ubs28
Headphoneus Supremus
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It is muffled. There are earphones / headphones that are more full sounding than the HD 650 that have much better clarity at the same time.
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I heard many headphones at canjam and still love my HD650's they seem to do everything just right. HD650 is endgame in my opinion. You can just get the HD650 and return them later if you don't like it, I think you'll like it.
Subhakar
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Has anyone managed to dig out any impressions from any corner of the world except the lone buyer (@aakshey)'s?
Does it tame the HD 598 treble a bit and add a little more bass by any chance?
Ordered a unit at $95.
http://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B01JP436TS/ref=pd_sim_23_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1MMN9BJTQ6DHB3YCRX3J
Does it tame the HD 598 treble a bit and add a little more bass by any chance?
HD 598 Cs
(Closed version of HD 598 SE)
Amazon-Exclusive product from Sennheiser.Ordered a unit at $95.
http://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B01JP436TS/ref=pd_sim_23_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1MMN9BJTQ6DHB3YCRX3J
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