[cantsleep]

hev70
 
hd800 looks fine. its not as good as l3000 but still better than r10.

 

[obobskivich]

hev70

?

hd800 looks fine. its not as good as l3000 but still better than r10.

I'd agree with this. A stat in the body of an L3000G...now that'd be something to behold!

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

It's amazing people never notice that the big manufacturers aren't participating in the discussions here, let alone consider getting feedback from people here. It's not hard to see why.

 
That insularity is a very backwards way of community engagement in this era.  I'd put Schiit at the top of my list of headphone-segment companies that know how to properly engage its audience, followed by Headamp and Hifiman in the second tier.  I'm probably missing a few, since my interest is almost exclusively stats and orthos.
 
I hope this headphone is a great successor to the HE90, but I have a feeling they saw the SR009 and BHSE rush and are going to go to luxury pricing.  I don't really see Sennheiser as a bang-for-buck company, and the Lambda will probably remain as the only affordable entry-point for most cost conscious consumers.
 
I wonder how much development has been done prior to Sennheiser catching wind of the Stax acquisition by Edifier.  It'd be great if there's growth in the sub-$2k stat market, as I'd like to see stats competitive to the LCD2/LCD3/HE6 in price, rather than trying to unseat the SR009.

 

[obobskivich]

That insularity is a very backwards way of community engagement in this era.  I'd put Schiit at the top of my list of headphone-segment companies that know how to properly engage its audience, followed by Headamp and Hifiman in the second tier.  I'm probably missing a few, since my interest is almost exclusively stats and orthos.

+1. Throw Grado and Final somewhere in there.

I hope this headphone is a great successor to the HE90, but I have a feeling they saw the SR009 and BHSE rush and are going to go to luxury pricing.  I don't really see Sennheiser as a bang-for-buck company, and the Lambda will probably remain as the only affordable entry-point for most cost conscious consumers.

Sadly you're probably right. And remember the ESP/950.

I wonder how much development has been done prior to Sennheiser catching wind of the Stax acquisition by Edifier.  It'd be great if there's growth in the sub-$2k stat market, as I'd like to see stats competitive to the LCD2/LCD3/HE6 in price, rather than trying to unseat the SR009.

This is what's scary - is this the result of a legitimate multi-year effort on their part to develop a new product, and it's just now being announced, or did they see the popularity of SR-009 and other high end STAXen and the recent resurgance of popularity and interest in the ESP/950 and look at their own IP portfolio and say "hey, we can get into that ring, slap something together" - that's where it's scary. It really could be either way, I mean the proof will be in the pudding, and if they're good, who cares what the motivation was (right?), but still.

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

Sadly you're probably right. And remember the ESP/950.

 
I definitely need to listen to an ESP-950 someday.  I've heard it compares pretty favorably to the Lambdas, so that's enough for me to be curious of its potential.  Ever since hearing the HE-6 + Trends TA-10.2SE , though, the ESP-950 rig has to perform really well to be competitive against orthos.  I feel the LCD-2 and HE-6 has a much more engaging signature for your average listener than a lower-end stat.  It still amazes me that a used HE-6 + new Trends-10.2SE comes out to about $1k, and a few folks spoke well about the Emotiva mini-X, too.
 
Quote:

This is what's scary - is this the result of a legitimate multi-year effort on their part to develop a new product, and it's just now being announced, or did they see the popularity of SR-009 and other high end STAXen and the recent resurgance of popularity and interest in the ESP/950 and look at their own IP portfolio and say "hey, we can get into that ring, slap something together" - that's where it's scary. It really could be either way, I mean the proof will be in the pudding, and if they're good, who cares what the motivation was (right?), but still.

 
It's always surprised me that Sennheiser's service department says they have enough parts to service the HE60 and HE90 for a lifetime, which made me wonder if they kept their stat component manufacturing channels active, or there just weren't a lot of HE60/HE90 headphones sold.
 
I think the criticism leveraged against Sennheiser's current high-end headphone R&D team is entirely fair.  The HD600 is pretty musical when properly amped, and the HE90 was amazing.  My experience hearing n3rdling's HE90 convinced me to buy a HE60 without auditioning it (in addition to all the high praise I've heard about the HE60 from HE90 owners).  That said, I've found the HD800 generally unengaging, with the exception of the BA, and while I haven't heard the HD700, the negative feedback from people I trust is pretty damning.  My expectations are guarded at best, but I hope Sennheiser proves me wrong.  I really hope they don't come out with a $3-5k stat that tries to beat the SR009.  I want something reasonably affordable and different from the 007 and 009.

 

[David1961]

After reading some of the posts on this thread I have an hypothetical question. Supposing there were two cars for sale and both were identical apart from one being amazing to look at and the other having the complete opposite in looks, which car would probably be chosen. When I'm paying out quite a large amount of money for an headphone, not only do I want it to sound amazing, but it must look and be built that way.
 
                  Please let me know thoughts about the car.

 

[obobskivich]

I definitely need to listen to an ESP-950 someday.  I've heard it compares pretty favorably to the Lambdas, so that's enough for me to be curious of its potential.  Ever since hearing the HE-6 + Trends TA-10.2SE , though, the ESP-950 rig has to perform really well to be competitive against orthos.  I feel the LCD-2 and HE-6 has a much more engaging signature for your average listener than a lower-end stat.  It still amazes me that a used HE-6 + new Trends-10.2SE comes out to about $1k, and a few folks spoke well about the Emotiva mini-X, too.

I think the 950 are basically the best headphones ever made, Magick Man (who has far more expensive wares) often amends that to "best under $1000" - FWIW. I haven't tried orthos (I'm turned off by the weight and other (perhaps irrational) concerns), but consider that the HE-6 loose are something like double to triple their street price (and double to triple their weight! ). Regarding "engaging signature for your average listener" - to quote Madeline - poo poo.

It's always surprised me that Sennheiser's service department says they have enough parts to service the HE60 and HE90 for a lifetime, which made me wonder if they kept their stat component manufacturing channels active, or there just weren't a lot of HE60/HE90 headphones sold.

I think the criticism leveraged against Sennheiser's current high-end headphone R&D team is entirely fair.  The HD600 is pretty musical when properly amped, and the HE90 was amazing.  My experience hearing n3rdling's HE90 convinced me to buy a HE60 without auditioning it (in addition to all the high praise I've heard about the HE60 from HE90 owners).  That said, I've found the HD800 generally unengaging, with the exception of the BA, and while I haven't heard the HD700, the negative feedback from people I trust is pretty damning.  My expectations are guarded at best, but I hope Sennheiser proves me wrong.  I really hope they don't come out with a $3-5k stat that tries to beat the SR009.  I want something reasonably affordable and different from the 007 and 009.

I think there were only like 200 or 300 HE90s sold, I don't know about the HE60; they seemed less limited but yet I rarely see them even mentioned around these parts. I agree with the criticism part too - the point about the HD 580 was very much taken to heart; remember that not too long ago those were top of the mark and only $299. Now they want $1499 for something that regularly gets contrasted and compared (and often-times unfavorably) to items at half the price. Long-term user satisfaction needs to become a priority again; who cares if it's one of the best measuring headphones in the world, what matters is if you'll still like it after 10 years.

After reading some of the posts on this thread I have an hypothetical question. Supposing there were two cars for sale and both were identical apart from one being amazing to look at and the other having the complete opposite in looks, which car would probably be chosen. When I'm paying out quite a large amount of money for an headphone, not only do I want it to sound amazing, but it must look and be built that way.

                  Please let me know thoughts about the car.

I'll take it one further - we're comparing a Ford Contour and a Jaguar X-Type. And I would tell you that I'd take the Jaguar 10 times out of 9.

 

[kevin gilmore]

Quote:

I'll take it one further - we're comparing a Ford Contour and a Jaguar X-Type. And I would tell you that I'd take the Jaguar 10 times out of 9.

 
Until you own one, and its in the shop 48 times in 44 months. Sometimes breaking before it left the dealer lot.
Sure did look pretty, and was fast.

 

[arnaud]

Quote:

I wonder how much development has been done prior to Sennheiser catching wind of the Stax acquisition by Edifier.  It'd be great if there's growth in the sub-$2k stat market, as I'd like to see stats competitive to the LCD2/LCD3/HE6 in price, rather than trying to unseat the SR009.

 
I'd be very surprised by this. You can't simply have than kind of reactivity as a manufacturer. These products are years in the planning and development and I seriously doubt that Senn went back to the saddle at the corner of 2010, like that, out of the blue. I remember the chief acoustic designer of the HD800 claiming himself at the time of HD800 release that, while better than anything they'd put out yet, he admitted the HD800 was no HE90. 
 
Overall, I also doubt that these high end headphones are seriously being developed with a strong ROI philosophy. You said it, the market is ridiculously small, it takes probably years to recoup on the R&D cost with the volumes of sale involved. I imagine the main reason being such development is simply making publicity for the rest of the product line and hopefully gain / regain the seat for the top of the crown. I don't think the intent is primarily to go after the 009 owners but I guess it's natural that this will get attraction from such crowd (esp. if they were to release a product with compatible polarization range).

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

I'd be very surprised by this. You can't simply have than kind of reactivity as a manufacturer. These products are years in the planning and development and I seriously doubt that Senn went back to the saddle at the corner of 2010, like that, out of the blue. I remember the chief acoustic designer of the HD800 claiming himself at the time of HD800 release that, while better than anything they'd put out yet, he admitted the HD800 was no HE90. 
 
Overall, I also doubt that these high end headphones are seriously being developed with a strong ROI philosophy. You said it, the market is ridiculously small, it takes probably years to recoup on the R&D cost with the volumes of sale involved. I imagine the main reason being such development is simply making publicity for the rest of the product line and hopefully gain / regain the seat for the top of the crown. I don't think the intent is primarily to go after the 009 owners but I guess it's natural that this will get attraction from such crowd (esp. if they were to release a product with compatible polarization range).

 
Really good points, and all legitimate IMO.  I'd be interested if that's a public quote about the HD800 being no HE90.  The HE90 is something really special, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to even have some high-level insight on how the technology behind the HE90 differs from the SR009.  The HE90 was so good with string instruments that I was getting goosebumps, and that was with all the meet ambient noise going on.  If classical was the only thing I listened to, I'd have a HE90/HEV90 setup right now, without question.
 
I can see Sennheiser's product team experimenting with having an end-to-end solution with a D/A+amp (HDVD 800) and headphone.  I'm sure a publicity play is a large part of it as they are the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  Their headphone product guys definitely notice that they missed the ortho wave, and they aren't part of the stat discussion anymore.  It will be interesting to see if this is a Maybach type of play, or if they're serious about a good price-performance piece.
 
It would be interesting to learn how much advance notice they got of the Stax acquisition and Edifier's future plans.

 

[arnaud]

Quote:

 I'd be interested if that's a public quote about the HD800 being no HE90. 

 
Not a direct public quote but the result of an interview. The last paragraph of this article was interesting: http://www.whathifi.com/blog/sennheiser-hd800-hands-on-preview-plus-how-the-163-1000-headphones-are-built
 
Will HD800 technology trickle down to cheaper headphones? 
Axel and his team continue their testing and development work – which includes laser-testing of components, as shown below – and he doesn't rule out some of the patented technology from the HD800 appearing in more affordable headphones. Or indeed it being scaled up to even higher-end products. Orpheus MkII, anyone?

 

[SoupRKnowva]

I take this to mean that odds are probably pretty good that they have been working on this new stat since close to the end of HD800 development. I highly doubt that Sennheiser would release such a reactionary product as several people in the thread have insinuated. Especially for what for all intents and purposes will be their new flagship/halo product. Im excited to hear what they've made, and hopefully it wont be as colored as the HE90 is.

 

[nattonrice]

I just think it's awesome that stats are getting lots of attention (again).
Kinda like the resurgence of vinyl of late.

 

[purk]

This is  a great news indeed.  Hoping for a special stats in the range of 3 to 4K.  Wonder if it will be terminated with a stax or HE90's jack.  Will the new Stats be euphonic like the HE90 or be neutral like the SR009 with a speaker-like soundstaging.   

 

[MorbidToaster]

I'd honestly be fine with it being a bit colored and sweet. The higher end stats (007 & 009) have the analytical bit covered and a nice smooth (great sounding) can would be awesome. 
 
If they're trying to follow in the HE60/90's footsteps I'd imagine that's where they'll go. Looks wise...the HE90 is one of the most gorgeous headphones ever made, IMO.