[BigEat]

I tend to agree with the tone of this thread; the 750's are a "swing and a miss" for Ultrasone. The highs on these headphones are almost shrill sounding which I first attributed to the titanium drivers and perhaps the need for serious burn in. But, they just never seem to relax. With the highs so sharp sounding and the bass booming away, I found these to be the most "uneven" headphones across the audible listening range that I've heard. At the price, this is a serious disappointment at best. As I huge fan of the Edition 9's, I wonder if the 750s weren't a half hearted attempt by Ultrasone to establish a product at a particular price point in their line at the expense of more refined engineering and testing.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif Peter, based on the phones you have heard (and thank you for providing that info, albeit a bit vague), I suggest you attend a local meet to hear what you might be missing. Your list suggests that you have plenty of fun comparisons to conduct in the future. I think you will have fun doing it as there are many truly outstanding headphones that you have not heard. I look forward to your impressions down the road.

I'm sure that I have not heard some very outstanding headphones. I have never heard Stax headphones, or the Electro headphones as only a couple of examples. From years ago, I heard headphones they don't even manufacture any more such as ones by Columbia (the same company that owned Columbia Records, they made their own headphones) Panasonic, RCA, Audio Technica, Electro Voice and others. Actually, years ago, it was somewhat torturous to record using headphones because the detail in the sound just wasn't there as it is with today's headphones.
I wasn't trying to be vague, I was trying to list the headphones I've heard most recently because they would have the latest comparable technology to the Pro 750's.
The reasons I prefer the Pro 750's to the ones I listed has to do with the sound and the detail. AKG K701 is probably equal in it's detail (it may even be slightly more articulate) but I prefer the overall sound of the Pro 750. It's interesting about detail comparison when it comes to comparing other headphones to the Pro 750. I have found that one of the reasons that some people think the Pro 750 is less articulate than it actually is, has to do with the S-Logic "surround sound effect", IMO. To explain this briefly, the detail is still there, it's just that the instrument, the sound of the bow being placed on the string or whatever detail the listener is trying to hear, that detail (specific sound) is possibly in a different place than where it would be in typical (non-Ultrasone) headphones. It might be outside of your head and in front of you or somewhere else but it's definitely there.
It also seems that It takes less to drive the Pro 750's.
I also like their sound stage a lot.
You mentioned an "02" headphone. Which one is that?

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Absolutely not. I'm quite serious.

C'mon guys. Really. Give him a chance. He took so much time and effort to write that and he is serious about what he said. You might not like the headphones but no reason to dis his comments.

 

[Kernmac]

To Fitz, and all others reading this thread. Peter Pinna doesn't represent the Ultrasone community or any other community by default, Peter represents Peter.
Peter's ambiguous reply regarding the fons he has listened to doesn't convince me of his "wide experience" and as for the 3d claims, he obviously has unique abilities. Fan boys with closed minds will always cop criticism. Most of the peole on this site are intelligent enough to know that you get mixed and often exaggerated claims both good and bad about products. The net is full of 3rd person views dealing in absolute rubbish, look for common themes, therein lies the truth generally. Peter, I like my Proline 550 and the soundstage isn't bad for a closed fon, but 3d they aint. Perfect they aint. Uncoloured they aint. You are entitled to your opinion, however I belive you should modify your delivery otherwise you will find the only repies you get will be from people either winding you up or having a shot in other ways.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sure that I have not heard some very outstanding headphones. I have never heard Stax headphones, or the Electro headphones as only a couple of examples. *** You mentioned an "02" headphone. Which one is that?

The O2 is a phone (or, I guess, line of phones) by Stax. Regardless, depending on where you are located, I recommend attending a local or regional meet, as it will allow you to continue to compare your 750s to others. I'm not suggesting that you'll find something you prefer; rather, that you will have more points of comparison, which I personally think is one of the more fun parts of this hobby (read obsession).

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif You really are a very rude man aren't you? Maybe I'll have to explain myself more to get you to stop being so disrespectful. We all know you can hear sounds from "outside" your head, like in real life or with speakers, and you can hear sounds "inside" your head, like with most headphones. But what if a sound crossed the "boundary" between the two and was both at the same time. Have you ever been swimming? When you try to see above and below the water at the same time, there is a blurred line between the two, one doesn't just suddenly stop and the other start. Maybe there is the same thing with sound, where it does not continue smoothly from inside to outside your head, but there is a blurred area where it changes over. It is too philosophical of a question maybe, but it is still a valid question. You talk so much of the Ultrasone Pro (Proline) headphones being able to reproduce such amazing "surround sound effects" that I wondered if they could do this too. I asked you about it and was very specific that it is a serious question, since you seem to know so much about this subject, but instead you've been nothing but a jerk and mocked my question. I am extremely disappointed by this, and hope that all Ultrasone users do not act the same way as you to people curious about the Ultrasone headphones. Congratulations Peter, you've completely turned me off of ever trying Ultrasone headphones again in the future.

I would appreciate it if you would take a look at my replies to others in this thread. If you do this, you will see that I answered no one like I answered you. The reason for this is not because I was trying to be rude. The reason is because I honestly thought you were joking. I still think there is a very strong possibility that you were joking. However, since I don't know you, I will attempt to answer you as if you were not joking. I apologize to you if I offended you. That was never my intention. What caused me to think you were joking was the way your original question was worded. I thought you and I were involved in good natured humorous exchanges with each other. I never thought you were actually serious (up until possibly now). I still have my doubts that you are serious but, to be on the safe side and so as to attempt to not offend you any more than I (possibly) already have, I will attempt to answer your original question.

Here is your original question on this thread:

"What about simultaneously inside and outside of your head? I would love to be able to experience what it might sound like to have a violin stuck through your head (like those arrow through the head hats). Can Ultrasone do this for me? This is a serious question, in my opinion, so please do not disrespect like you usually do."

Here is my answer:

Recently, I was listening to a recording of Ella Fitzgerald with an orchestra with the Proline 750 headphones. Of the sound stage, Ella's voice in this recording was somewhat on the outside of my head in front of my face and somewhat going into my head at the face. Some of the instruments were outide of my head completely and some were part way into my head (and part way out of my head) and some others were at various positions inside my head. The sounds that were part way in and part way out of the head were all smooth sounding. There was no disturbance at the point where the sound entered or exited the head. I hope that made sense to you. These are ideas that are somewhat challenging to explain.
The demo CD that came with the Proline 750's has a track of sounds of ocean waves. The waves start outside of your head and then, they go through your head, and then end-up outside of your head on the other side.
I suppose that if a violin was recorded with exactly the right panning, that it could be made to sound as if you were sitting right on the bridge of the violin as the bow played. And, perhaps, made to sound as if the various bowed notes were going right through your head. Indeed, I have heard this with a recorded piano as the pianist went from the low end to the high end of the keyboard.
Regarding the idea of being respected or disrespected, if you look at any of my posts I think you will see that actually I am very respectful of others. One point of confusion in this regard, might have to do with disagreements. There was an attempt by another member to mis-quote me and then turn that mis-quote (something I never said) into an argument against me. There were misunderstandings, mis-communications and an implied accusation (One member, without saying it directly, more than implied that I was either lying, mistaken or delusional about how I hear the Ultrasone sound stage.) I am not a pacifist. I think defending one's position or generally disagreeing with someone regarding a particular topic is not the same as being rude or disrespectful of someone. When I disagreed with someone, one could say that "I respectfully disagreed". I never actually said that on these forums but for the most part, I think the tone of my responses more than indicated a healthy respect for the opinions of others even though I might have disagreed with those opinions.
If you have any more questions or want to know my opinion on other related topics, please write again.
Are we cool now?

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigEat /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tend to agree with the tone of this thread; the 750's are a "swing and a miss" for Ultrasone. The highs on these headphones are almost shrill sounding which I first attributed to the titanium drivers and perhaps the need for serious burn in. But, they just never seem to relax. With the highs so sharp sounding and the bass booming away, I found these to be the most "uneven" headphones across the audible listening range that I've heard.

I now have another 100 hours burn-in on top of my original 50 with my new Pro 750's and the highs do back off, at least to my (old) ears. I bought them because they are closed back and fold in two different ways, which I needed. I also had Drew at moon-audio re-do the cabling so that they can fold without detaching the cable, and he did split entry for me, and upgraded to his Silver Dragon. I must say the SQ is wonderful, nothing to complain about, and I have of late auditioned many of the top HPs. Maybe this is my opinion because of the loss of high-end hearing with age (I'm 59), that's possible. Maybe I just like the EQ that is the uneven response (hey, who can't use a little bass and treble boost, remember the old tone controls?). I have let a lot of people listen to them (uncompressed WAVs on a Cowon i7 into a Predator) and everyone is blown away. I will have them at the NJ meet in July.

IMHO these are a hit for Ultrasone, not a miss, depending on your application. Will they be my reference cans for home? No. But will I have better sound than everyone else in the hotel when I am on the road? Yes.

 

[pataburd]

After 400 hours and the RAL recable, I had absolutely no complaints or further wishes for the 750. I will say that they always retained a raw, almost visceral quality, which is what I liked most about them, especially on vocals--female vocals.

As for detail, the stock K701, which eventually drew me astray from the PL750, delivered more detail, IMHE, than did the RAL/PL750.

The upside to all this is that the RAL/K701 eventually led me to re-audition the (stock) K501, which again IMHE, bettered the re-cabled K701!

In addition, at the same time the K701 had gotten my attention, I percieved the PL750 as "too bassy." Funny, I now own the D2000, real bass beasts, but oddly enough they don't sound "too bassy" to me like the PL750 did.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kernmac /img/forum/go_quote.gif To Fitz, and all others reading this thread. Peter Pinna doesn't represent the Ultrasone community or any other community by default, Peter represents Peter. Peter's ambiguous reply regarding the fons he has listened to doesn't convince me of his "wide experience" and as for the 3d claims, he obviously has unique abilities. Fan boys with closed minds will always cop criticism. Most of the peole on this site are intelligent enough to know that you get mixed and often exaggerated claims both good and bad about products. The net is full of 3rd person views dealing in absolute rubbish, look for common themes, therein lies the truth generally. Peter, I like my Proline 550 and the soundstage isn't bad for a closed fon, but 3d they aint. Perfect they aint. Uncoloured they aint. You are entitled to your opinion, however I belive you should modify your delivery otherwise you will find the only repies you get will be from people either winding you up or having a shot in other ways.

Peter Pinna doesn't represent the Ultrasone community or any other community by default, Peter represents Peter.
Yes, that is true and I thought I made that clear by the heading of my original post on this thread.

Peter's ambiguous reply regarding the fons he has listened to doesn't convince me of his "wide experience" and as for the 3d claims, he obviously has unique abilities.
There was a time when I paid no attention to which brand of headphones to which I was listening. I was either able to hear clearly through them or I wasn't. Whether you believe it or not, I have heard a number of different headphones over the years. Most recently, I have been trying to hear what I have been told are the best headphones with the latest technology. Really, there doesn't seem to be that many of them.
Not once, in my post did I ever use the term "3d". All I said, in essence, was that sounds, when listening with the Pro 750's, come from more directions than they come from using typical (non-Ultrasone) headphones and that some of those sounds were outside of the head, some inside and some part way in and out.

Fan boys with closed minds will always cop criticism. Most of the peole on this site are intelligent enough to know that you get mixed and often exaggerated claims both good and bad about products.
If I had a "closed mind" I wouldn't be responding to your post.
I tried my best to give an accurate description of how I hear audio via the Pro 750's.

Peter, I like my Proline 550 and the soundstage isn't bad for a closed fon, but 3d they aint. Perfect they aint. Uncoloured they aint.
I have never heard the Proline 550's. So, I am unable to make any comment whatsoever on their sound or performance.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I belive you should modify your delivery otherwise you will find the only repies you get will be from people either winding you up or having a shot in other ways.
I attempted to give an accurate description of how I hear audio via the Pro 750's. As I stated previously, I have no problem if someone else hears audio via these phones differently than I do. There are already theories which attempt to explain this. And, once again, those theories are not mine. Those theories existed long before I first heard of Ultrasone which was about 5 months ago.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif C'mon guys. Really. Give him a chance. He took so much time and effort to write that and he is serious about what he said. You might not like the headphones but no reason to dis his comments.

Thank you very much for your comment and for your support.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif The O2 is a phone (or, I guess, line of phones) by Stax. Regardless, depending on where you are located, I recommend attending a local or regional meet, as it will allow you to continue to compare your 750s to others. I'm not suggesting that you'll find something you prefer; rather, that you will have more points of comparison, which I personally think is one of the more fun parts of this hobby (read obsession).

Thanks for the information. There's another example. Until recently I had never heard of Stax headphones.
Actually, I would like to find a headphone that I like better than the Pro 750's because those would be one hot!! pair of headphones!!!

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigEat /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tend to agree with the tone of this thread; the 750's are a "swing and a miss" for Ultrasone. The highs on these headphones are almost shrill sounding which I first attributed to the titanium drivers and perhaps the need for serious burn in. But, they just never seem to relax. With the highs so sharp sounding and the bass booming away, I found these to be the most "uneven" headphones across the audible listening range that I've heard. At the price, this is a serious disappointment at best. As I huge fan of the Edition 9's, I wonder if the 750s weren't a half hearted attempt by Ultrasone to establish a product at a particular price point in their line at the expense of more refined engineering and testing.

Thank you for your opinion. As you might have expected, my opinion of the Pro 750's and it's sound qualities is very much the opposite of yours. I have spent a lot of time with musicians. Of the headphones I've heard in their default state, the Pro 750's most accurately reproduce the sound of the "live" instruments, IMO. This includes brass instruments. Some people can not seem to handle the high end frequencies of "live" brass instruments. By way of comparison, I am used to the sound of the "live" brass as well as other instruments. So the high end frequencies of the Pro 750's do not bother me in the least. Actually, I enjoy it because it sounds to my ears like the instruments really sound "live". Indeed, right now I am listening via the Proline 750's, to a "live" performance recording of Count Basie and his Orchestra. And, believe me, at times the horns are really "up there"!

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I now have another 100 hours burn-in on top of my original 50 with my new Pro 750's and the highs do back off, at least to my (old) ears. I bought them because they are closed back and fold in two different ways, which I needed. I also had Drew at moon-audio re-do the cabling so that they can fold without detaching the cable, and he did split entry for me, and upgraded to his Silver Dragon. I must say the SQ is wonderful, nothing to complain about, and I have of late auditioned many of the top HPs. Maybe this is my opinion because of the loss of high-end hearing with age (I'm 59), that's possible. Maybe I just like the EQ that is the uneven response (hey, who can't use a little bass and treble boost, remember the old tone controls?). I have let a lot of people listen to them (uncompressed WAVs on a Cowon i7 into a Predator) and everyone is blown away. I will have them at the NJ meet in July. IMHO these are a hit for Ultrasone, not a miss, depending on your application. Will they be my reference cans for home? No. But will I have better sound than everyone else in the hotel when I am on the road? Yes.

Thank you for your comments. Someone else brought up the idea of recabling and his question of me was something to the effect of do I think that recabling would improve the sound quality. Having never recabled my Proline 750's, I could not answer his question. Since you've had this done, what is your opinion of the sound quality comparing before and after the recabling?
When you have the opportunity, take a look at my response to BigEat and specifically my comments about the sound of "live" instruments and the Pro 750's.
I'm glad you enjoy the Pro 750's as I do. Just out of curiosity, do you hear the sound stage of Pro 750's in any way similar to the way I have described it in my original post on this thread?

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif After 400 hours and the RAL recable, I had absolutely no complaints or further wishes for the 750. I will say that they always retained a raw, almost visceral quality, which is what I liked most about them, especially on vocals--female vocals. As for detail, the stock K701, which eventually drew me astray from the PL750, delivered more detail, IMHE, than did the RAL/PL750. The upside to all this is that the RAL/K701 eventually led me to re-audition the (stock) K501, which again IMHE, bettered the re-cabled K701! In addition, at the same time the K701 had gotten my attention, I percieved the PL750 as "too bassy." Funny, I now own the D2000, real bass beasts, but oddly enough they don't sound "too bassy" to me like the PL750 did.

You are saying that the recabling definitely improved the sound quality of the Proline 750's?
It never ceases to amaze me, the different opinions people have about sounds. Case in point are the AKG K701's which I have always thought of as not being "bassy" enough and the Pro 750's as having a more accurate sounding bass end.
This interests me. I wonder if this difference in perception and opinion has to do with how we hear or our environment or what?
Right now, at the very moment I write this, I'm listening to a "live" performance recording of Count Basie and his Orchestra playing a song called "Jumpin' At The Woodside" via the Proline 750's. The way that the Proline 750 is producing the sound of this great band, is really giving me a reason to smile!

 

[iQEM]

i think it's because PROline's series are hard to find the sweet spot, that's why ppl used to underestimate their real potential, just base on limited hearing test...Ultrasone need to burn-in more longer than any other cans, and must get used to on the right positioning too, to make it sound right...just my two cents..
maybe others are claim their picked cans as the best (to their ears), but it's never ending story...

there's no bad/worst cans on >50 USD price range but, one's better than another one, that's all...everyone got different taste to another, different person with different gear, different setup with different preference...that's what makes this whole world colourful, so no need to fight each other on this thread...peace all...