What is your favorite sound signature (i.e. what kind of sound are you really after?)
Dec 12, 2006 at 5:52 AM Post #16 of 52
I'm learning that I like the sparkle in my highs. I think the higher frequencies have the most impact over my emotions as I listen to music. When little chimes and such circle my head it can just lift up off my shoulders and float around for a bit. That brings me to my next point; I love it when my headphones make my head swing around looking for the culprit of some silverware clatter in a recording. It's a real great feeling when sound staging is that precise/realistic.

I don't really like the over exaggerated bass that I've come to associate with the Dj'ing headphones. I much rather feel the bass slam. I love some of those Dream Theatre albums where it seems like my head is being knocked around by a pair of drum sticks.

I like detail, but I'm starting to find a lot of my favorite albums weren't recorded/mastered very well. Simply put, there's nothing I can do about the master, so I'd like to find a way my headphones or some other piece of audio gear could clean this up. I hate to say it, but sometimes I feel my setup is a little too detailed at times, revealing too many faults in my favorite recordings that I just never noticed before. The lack of a completely black noise floor is generally one of my biggest pet peeves.
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 6:18 AM Post #19 of 52
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Originally Posted by discord /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Fruity-





Pebbles...not to be confused with Fruity Dyno-Bites
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Dec 12, 2006 at 6:21 AM Post #20 of 52
I've come to appreciate quite a range of sonic signatures. Ultimately I'm not too much of a fan of the blanket-over-the-speakers effect of many Sennheiser models (and a few others like the DT250-80), but as long as a transducer has good clarity and no colorations severe enough to become distractions, I'll listen to it. One fun aspect of headphones is being able to have a number of sonic signatures effectively "on tap" and ready at a moment's notice.

Having said all that, there is no one sonic signature I'd say I favor above all others. Once you get to the tip-top tier of headphones, they all have something fabulous to offer in their own special way. It would take me quite a while to figure out which of the Qualia, R10, HE90, or L3000 I'd take if you forced me to pick only one.
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 6:26 AM Post #22 of 52
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Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think this might be a useful discussion. We all talk about our favorite headphones, but because we all hear in different ways we have rather different takes on them. So, let's take headphones out of the picture for a second and see what we're really after in a system. Then, we can put them back in and figure our what kind of a system really suits our needs.

So, talk about what kind of sound does it for you, and what you ideally want to hear. Let's not all say "musical" since different things make the sound musical to us in different ways. Rather, let's break it down into individual components of the sound signature, and see what we like and how it makes things click for us individually.

Here's what I want out of a system:

Naturally, I want the system to disappear and leave nothing but the music behind. But, since that's not really an answer, this is what makes a system disappear for me:

First of all, the tonal balance has to be right. The tonal balance that I prefer is a sound that's fairly flat through the bass (on headphones that implies a very slight midbass emphasis to compensate for a lesser tactile feedback in comparison to speakers - but much less of a midbass emphasis than a lot of popular good headphones have i.e. HD650), flat through the midrange and on to the upper mids, and very slightly recessed in the treble. This, I find, let's the treble sort-of pop out of nowhere, and makes it more airy and delicate, as opposed to a more foreward treble, which puts extra treble where there should be none, and makes for a metallic, edgy sound with many modern recordings.

Secondly, I'm after detail. A whole lot of detail. I realized that I'm a detail freak when I found myself wishing that the SR-404 had more resolution. I want to hear each and every tiny nuance to the sound, and if it's hyperdetailed past the point of realism, I really don't care. However, I want my detail to be presented naturally, without shortened decay and cut-out transients like the Etys do it.

In terms of speed, attack, and decay, I want a system that's extremely fast, has a fast attack, but a long decay. This is very tricky to get right, but this is what tubes do basically, lengthen decay until sound sort of hovers surreally in midair, while keeping a good attack and a good speed overall. I love this sound, and this is must in my system (this is why I don't much care for solid-state anymore).

In terms of soundstage - I prefer a forward sound with soundstage. What that means is that I want to be right on stage with the musicians, but I don't want to lose the dimensionality of the background sounds. I want a forward foreground, but a distant background. The SR-404 does this really well I think, it's a Grado-ish presentation with actual soundstage width.

I want a very saturated tone color. I don't want things to be greyish or metallic sounding, or woolen and murky and overly lush. I want to hear the body and tone of the instrument first and foremost, but I also don't want to lose texture like Sennheisers do sometimes. I want it all!

Here's what breaks a system for me: wooly, loose, undefined bass (HD650), shortened transients and an overly dry sound (ER-4S), insufficient speed to deal with complex material and many layers (HD580/6x0), metallic treble that sounds artificially hi-fi-ish and not refined (A250 and sometimes K340) and an uneven, peaky midrange (SR-404).

Lastly, here's what I'm more tolerant of: frequency roll-offs at either extreme, though I'm less tolerant of bass roll-offs than treble roll-offs. The SR-003 is pretty rolled off at both ends, but it still sounds quite balanced to my ear because what is there is of a very good quality. Ditto for the ES2 - it doesn't have much deep bass next to the E500, and it's treble is not as extended as an electrostat's obviously, but what's there is very, very good.

When all of these factors are in place, I can basically relax and let the music flow. But, quite frankly, a system that meets all of this is going to be outrageously expensive to begin with, so chances are I'm not the only one that's going to relax and let the music flow. I've heard something like this out of the HE90, but I can't of course say for sure, since it's been so long since I've heard one. I've also had very good results out of several systems, specifically the K340 and SR-404 when they're driven by tubes. Those systems had failed at one specific issue or another, but they have come very, very close. The least offensive, so to speak, headphone in my collection is the ES2. It does nearly everything right to my ear, but I need more resolution/refinement/quality in general out of my main rig (though this is not a knock on the ES2 as it's quite amazing for what it is). I've come to realize that I love tubes, and without some glass somewhere in the signal path, I really can't relax and let the music carry me away. The fast attack/long decay/saturated tone color sound (let's say coloration) that tubes add just does it for me in nearly every way.

So... what does it sonically for you?

Once again, I think this will be useful, since we can talk about where we're coming from in a more idealized, metaphorical manner, as opposed to saying what pieces of gear we do and don't like.

P.S. Sorry for the length, but if we're going to talk in-depth about abstract notions of good sound, then we might as well make it long
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I think we can make a very good couple if we are gay....
but im still not willing to maintain tubes instruments though even though they sound good
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 6:37 AM Post #23 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig
I think we can make a very good couple if we are gay....


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Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig
but im still not willing to maintain tubes instruments though even though they sound good


Um, are you like listing potential compatibility issues here, or what? I hope this is all in reference to the "fruity" references...
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 6:42 AM Post #24 of 52
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Originally Posted by khbaur330162 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
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Um, are you like listing potential compatibility issues here, or what? I hope this is all in reference to the "fruity" references...



I think he's talking about the higher maintenence of tube gear, replacing tubes, biasing, hunting down new tubes etc. Not to mention the high cost of new tubes every couple of years.
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 6:47 AM Post #25 of 52
Just a shot at off coloured sick humour, I'm sure...
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Anyhooo...It is interesting the posters all fall back into that old comfort zone of Hardware rather than the intentions of the OP...

'Course that post was tough to one up and refined by a great ammount of experience with hardware in search of the elusive definition of "IT" and the "Sound" and its qualitys he's after....

Personally, i never did like fruity pebbles; Sugary with very little substance
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Dec 12, 2006 at 6:48 AM Post #26 of 52
Yes, but catscratch showed an obvious disposition to tubes. It seemed as though Konig was letting it be known that it just wouldn't "work out" between the two of them even if they did get together because of their varying opinions on tubed gear. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was merely making a -albeit rather bad one judging from your reaction- joke.
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 6:56 AM Post #27 of 52
I like a transparent, effortless, airy clear sound with neutral tonal balance. I don't like any big apparent colorations. I also like speed and detail, which is kind of necessary to achieve what I was trying to explain in the 1st sentence. I don't like muddiness at all. I don't care too much about soundstage, either way could work although I don't really like an extremely small soundstage, and I might not like a really big soundstage that might not work too well with the kind of music I listen to, although I've never heard a big soundstage before.

What I'm describing is almost what my SA5000 achieves, although it needs to be equalized. I'm still looking for more though. The SA5000 was a giant step up from the MS-1 but I feel like there's still a lot more room to go. A zapfilter and amp upgrade should get me closer though. Every once in a while I imagine what the ideal sound would sound like, and it's apparent that I'm not there yet (I'm not even sure if it's possible to achieve it though).

I have a feeling I'd like the K1000. A lot of the other really high end headphones seem described to be dark and "musical," whatever that means.
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 7:09 AM Post #28 of 52
i'll tackle the tube problem, as I see it not a problem at all...

I've used tubes 2 @ 10 bucks ea. in my Foreplay pre in my full speaker set up front of S.S. or digital mains to great effect as tone controls which also deepens the bass with control too, and widens the soundstage: As it also did for my H5 providing more power leaving more headroom with the vol pot lower on the H5 achieving glorious peak musical experiences driving the 990s!

The MAD for example has longivity in its 2ea V2 tubes @ 20 bucks a pair where the V1 tube is the expence, that tube is readily available and NOS quality @ less than 25 bucks or less; All with slightly different balance of the so tipped freqs emphisis and promenance effecting tone controls without another circuit and resistors in a control knob... Which has its cost both sonically and in hardware....FWIW
 
Dec 12, 2006 at 7:52 AM Post #29 of 52
In the 80s, I used to listen to a cheap pair of rat shack Realistic Pro-60 headphones that were the best sound that could afford at the time. Until I purchased my Nakamichi TA-4 and B&W loudspeakers with some monster m1 cables. I would sit in the dark in front of those speakers for hours listening to textured sound like from mannheim steamroller, andreas vollenweider, yanni, kitaro, ray lynch, various narrada artists, etc... the sound was so alive and you could hear the very texture of the music. That's the sound that I am seeking in my headphone crusade.
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Dec 12, 2006 at 10:29 AM Post #30 of 52
When I was really young, my Father and I were in in this really hawt electronic store, and I had a chance to listen to these awesome headphones. They were playing this music, umm, the type where monks just sit there humming angelically away. It sounded so airy it was amazing. I've always remembered that sound.

I'm now on my dt770/80's. Each time I've put on a pair of ear buds, and my recently purchased IEMs, I realize how much bass the dt770's toss onto the whole sound(particularly while playing Quake 2). I also realize how dark its sound is. The next thing I realize is the lack of fine detail--the detail retrieval that picks up those very, very minute, but still important details that adds richness to the world of sound I'm hearing. Probably the last thing I notice is how hot the dt770/80 makes my ears. It's nothing that makes me not want to wear it without an a/b comparison, but it is noticeable after putting on ear buds, lol.

So, I now believe my preference towards the dt880 has been a fruitful one. It has a nice, airy sound, and ultra detail retrieval. It's semi-open, so there's less heat on my ears. Oh yea, and it's very neutral sounding, without bass being tossed upon even seemingly bass-less things, lol. This aint a knock on my dt770/80's, for I can live with them probably forever if I had to. But I'm looking forward to the day I purchase the $150 dt880, for that...ultimate sound:p

I sometimes used to wonder if I would be able to make the transition from steak-thick bass of the dt770/80, to the lean, maybe even paper thin bass of the dt880. I can now allay that concern, because I NEVER actually miss all that wonderful bass my dt770/80 has when I'm rockin a pair of ear buds of IEMs. However, bass is still highly enjoyable when it's subwoofery and imaged well with my dt770/80, rather than the typical, headphone'y bass my relatively cheap ear bud and IEM alternatives have. Hope the dt880 won't disappoint in that respect
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I guess the last, interesting sound preference of mine is how I like the overall sound to be presented. I seem to prefer an in-your-head sound, rather than a wide, spaced out soundstage'y sound. To me, the in-your-head sound just comes across as much more coherent, and natural. The headphones with soundstages that I've heard so far has soundstages that seem to mimic the relative sound attribute of loud speakers, but never actually achieve emulation, which is a large sound that IS all in my head. Hope that made sense
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