[nwavesailor]

I have my dave connected to my envy...I set the envy volume to 12 o clock and control the volume via the dave...works great

I do the same with my DAVE

 

[Doug2507]

I tried the Dave, Hugo TT2 in DAC and preamp mode with the Envy Performance Edition and preferred the Cambridge Edge NQ Streamer DAC over both in Preamp Mode and use 2 Monoblocks from Cambridge Edge M, details and soundstage is huge in depth and width with Susvara, the Cambridge Dac sounds so musical, with the Full Music the soundstage wasn’t huge and the layer separation was more on a line, with the WE it just opened up and fall in love with the setup right now

Nice. Let us know how they differ tonally once they've got a few hours on them vs Full Music.

 

[Doug2507]

I have my dave connected to my envy...I set the envy volume to 12 o clock and control the volume via the dave...works great

Pretty much in the same place with the Bricasti...

 

[trollbearpig]

WE is even better after burn-in. The Susvara sounds buttery smooth and explosively dynamic at the same time.

What changes did you notice after burn-in and was it subtle or large? Asking because I haven't heard any changes going from after 2nd hour of use up to about 40 hours, so I'm wondering what I'm looking for here 0_o

 

[Doug2507]

Speaking of burn in for tubes, what's the general concensus on ballpark break in for both 300b and driver tubes?

 

[yolosauce]

What changes did you notice after burn-in and was it subtle or large? Asking because I haven't heard any changes going from after 2nd hour of use up to about 40 hours, so I'm wondering what I'm looking for here 0_o

Burn in helped a lot with vocal sibilance on poorly recorded music. I'm relistening to songs that I avoided on the ferrum oor because of sibilance and would use the Caldera instead of the Susvara. Now there is zero sibilance on the Susvara no matter how loud I listen (heard some sibilance before burn-in).

 

[Newsee]

I'm thinking about upgrading the Spring to a May and i would really hate to not use a preamp for the Envy.
I just checked - Spring at 94 Volume (which is equal to no preamp at all) and the Susvara on high gain is very loud at 9 o'clock.
I mean...
IT WOULD BE NICE IF I COULD ACTUALLY USE THE VOLUME KNOB AS INTENDED...

So, do i need to get a Serene? Or is a Bliss probably good enough as a preamp (because i then could kick out the Rebelamp aswell, use the Bliss for both IEM's and when i don't want to turn the Envy on).
What are you guys using as a preamp, if any. Because as i said, making minimal adjustments to the volume is not possible because the output of the Spring is so hot. Lowering the gain makes the Susvara a bit softer in my opinion.
First world problems, i know...

You can try a Rockna Wavelight instead. That is also R2R and has an analog output volume control. No need for pre. It has XLR and RCA outputs. I use XLR to Envy, RCA to the secondary amp.
I use output level 85 to get the Envy around 9 o'clock, or 55 to 12 o'clock.
I have never heard the May.

 

[ThanatosVI]

You can try a Rockna Wavelight instead. That is also R2R and has an analog output volume control. No need for pre. It has XLR and RCA outputs. I use XLR to Envy, RCA to the secondary amp.
I use output level 85 to get the Envy around 9 o'clock, or 55 to 12 o'clock.
I have never heard the May.

Amazing DAC btw

 

[robo24]

Now I've had the Envy for long enough to form impressions, I thought I'd run through some TUBE IMPRESSIONS so far...

My chain is in my sig, and these impressions have been consistent across all my headphones. However, real critical listening all done on the Susvara.

For consistency, I kept my Brimar CV1988 as driver tubes for all impressions.



THE STOCK – Electro-Harmonix 300b
The stock tubes that came with my Standard Envy. The amp itself was such an overpowering step up from my XIAUDIO stack – and also my first tube amp – there was always going to be a big change in sound. I had tried to temper expectations but when I first listened to the track I always listen to first with new headphones or amps, I honestly got a bit emotional. I knew I was done with amp searching. The sound was so huge and euphonic, yet with the detail and imaging I thought I would sacrifice coming from the XIAUDIO.

How wrong was I...The whole experience the first few days was pretty euphoric as I went through as many songs as I could, across all genres. Everything sounded the best it ever had.

I had bought Western Electric 300b in anticipation of the arrival of the amp, so they were ready to go from day one. I swore I would wait a week before changing.

Of course, it took me all of three hours before I caved and swapped out the EH300b for the WE300b. And the immediate reaction I had was quite cool. My brain was still adjusting to the tube sound, I simply couldn't place the differences between tubes.

Now I've had more time, and done some proper A/B, the differences are definitely much starker.

From Electro-Harmonix 300b > Western Electric 300b
Firstly, I think it's good news that people who don't want to buy 300b upgrades needn't worry about some kind of poor man's Envy type of sound. Is there an improvement with the WE? Undoubtedly. Is it night and day? To some people's ears, but not mine. Blind test, I could tell. Confident about that. But after a week, I would still be very very happy listening to the EH.

What's different? First thing that stood out to me was vocals. EH sound recessed. Muddier. Especially male vocals. Soundstage shrunk in, and imaging and instrument placement was less crisp. Less dynamic too. Bass with the WE was mighty. And yet so clean. Treble cleaner too.

That said, I really have to emphasise, by anyone's impressions this is surely still a very impressive listen.

However...I realised after a few days of just the EH then swapping again to WE, the sound I was enjoying was in spite of the tubes. The amp is that good.

With the WE, it all comes up about 25%. Which at this level is significant IMO.

I had also bought Elrogs anticipating a face-off with the WE. I knew I wouldn't get a 25% uptick going to Elrog. But what could I expect?

From Western Electric 300b > Elrog ER300b
Previous thread impressions on this are largely my experience too. Elrogs sound cleaner in the treble, not quite as brittle as WE are in the upper treble.

Imaging and soundstage are better. Vocals are the biggest improvement for me. More present and yet more intimate.

Dynamics are...changeable for me depending on the track. I vacillate on this one tbh. If you're a fan of punchy rock dynamics, neither will disappoint you.

I can understand why someone would prefer the WE. There is perhaps a shade for euphonic sound there. It's close. But for me the Elrog does everything WE does and adds some extra on top: soundstage height and width, instrument separation, imaging, and a nicer tonality for my preferences. Perhaps slightly less coloured than WE.

HOWEVER...

When I move to a track like Parabola by Tool, with Elrog, I've lost a bit of that magic the WE had. I can't quite place what it is, but it is similar to that change from solid-state to tube. The euphonic warmth. It's not at all thin. But the guitars have less body suddenly.

It's a reminder that choosing between those two tubes is really hard for me.

CONCLUSIONS
The reality is that only having the Elrogs since this morning, it's too soon to tell, but I had wanted to get my thoughts down on stock tubes versus 300b upgrades generally in case it helped someone.

I'm considering a DAC change from my Chord Dave to a Holo May, as I've recenly acquired some Empire Ears Odin IEMs along with a Cayin RU6 R2R DAC which has really opened my eyes to the impact of R2R, and I feel like it might be what the sound I'm looking for now.

I've been chasing technicalities for so long, I feel like what I'm trying to settle on now is tonality preference. And if I'm going to welcome a May into my chain, then I'd want to keep both WE and Elrog for now until that choice becomes a little clearer. Elrog might play nicer with the May's softer touch. But changing DAC is a whole thread discussion.

TLDR: WE or Elrog 300b upgrades are absolutely worth it for what they cost. I know we all have to decide to stop somewhere, but for me, having spent the money on the Envy, tube upgrades are value for money.

But if you don't want to upgrade tubes, you're still going to have a phenomenal amp that sounds beautiful.

Curious about updated impressions once all tubes have at least a couple hundred hours on them.

 

[jlbrach]

I use Bliss as pre to Envy a lot. It sounds great, and does not color the sound at all. (May is DAC)

That said, Envy is to me very tolerant of hot input, either balanced or SE.

I am confused, I can see using envy as a pre amp for say a CFA3 in order to get the tube sound with the power of the CFA3 but do not understand why one would use a SS amp as a pre for a tube amp like envy...maybe I am missing something

 

[Doug2507]

I am confused, I can see using envy as a pre amp for say a CFA3 in order to get the tube sound with the power of the CFA3 but do not understand why one would use a SS amp as a pre for a tube amp like envy...maybe I am missing something

I think it's more about attenuation control with Spring as DAC rather than pre into Envy...(?)

 

[jlbrach]

AS one who absolutely loves my envy I do have a question about it that I cant figure out...I have the tube guards on my envy but cannot figure out what they are actually guarding lol...they do absolutely nothing to guard the 300b tubes or anything that might fall on top of tubes etc...wouldnt a proper tube cage that protected the tubes for real be a far better option and is there such a product available anywhere?

 

[DeeT79]

I am confused, I can see using envy as a pre amp for say a CFA3 in order to get the tube sound with the power of the CFA3 but do not understand why one would use a SS amp as a pre for a tube amp like envy...maybe I am missing something

I've also wondered why use a SS as a pre amp into a tube amp. I've heard others do it and wonder if I'm missing something.

 

[jlbrach]

I think it's more about attenuation control with Spring as DAC rather than pre into Envy...(?)

ok fair enough , I thought it was just a SS amp

 

[ThanatosVI]

AS one who absolutely loves my envy I do have a question about it that I cant figure out...I have the tube guards on my envy but cannot figure out what they are actually guarding lol...they do absolutely nothing to guard the 300b tubes or anything that might fall on top of tubes etc...wouldnt a proper tube cage that protected the tubes for real be a far better option and is there such a product available anywhere?

They are not really effectively guarding anything.
Unfortunately there is no real tube cage available. However I heard several pet owners and parents saying they'd like one, so If demand is high enough maybe they'll make a full cage?