[159650]

Since the Benchmark DACs get mentioned a lot around the Grace Design m903 etc, I have to ask since massdrop also has a drop on their Objective 2/ODAC right now. Would the m9xx be a significant upgrade to the O2/ODAC? I'm already in the drop but am considering upgrading to the M9xx

 

[yavormoskov]

I want to know the same thing. Should I go with ODAC or Grace Design?

 

[raband]

Honest input on ^^ would be greatly appreciated.
 
Both, either or neither of these suitable for an HD800 for example?

 

[sheldaze]

  Honest input on ^^ would be greatly appreciated.
 
Both, either or neither of these suitable for an HD800 for example?

The quote below is from the first post.
 
Quote:

 

1. I've only preliminarily used the Sennheiser HD 800 with the m9XX, and it is a very nice and surprising pairing. I only mean it's surprising to me in that I haven't found many small form factor solid state amps that I'll use with the HD 800. Add one more to the list. Will it replace my favorite tube amps with the big Sennheiser? No. But for a rather portable monitoring setup...wow. I'll have to spend more time with this combo.

Seems not only was Jude happy with it, but also looking forward to other headphones to try out on the m9XX 

 

[159650]

  Seems not only was Jude happy with it, but also looking forward to other headphones to try out on the m9XX 

Although I don't doubt Jude's expertise on the subject and his words, it's hardly a full review. Just an initial impression. Yes, it's positive, but nothing conclusive. I just which he had more time with the device to put up a better review. From what reviews I have seen of the m920, the DAC is no doubt capable, but not exactly a stellar device (for the price). Coming from a Fiio E9/ESS ES9023 DAC combo I have no doubt that I'd be happy. The question is, is the m9xx worth the added +270 dollars over the much more affordable but well received ODAC/O2 combo. Someone already pointed out that the O2 has impressive specs to match. They're just numbers. But at over twice the cost of the MD ODAC/O2 combo, it's definitely something I, as a current participant of the O2/ODAC combo, would like to know. Is it so amazing that it justifies the 270 dollar price hike? I wish I knew! The drop is tomorrow!

 

[159650]

To be honest though, I probably more than not, end up joining the drop and cancelling on the O2/ODAC. The Grace m9xx sounds way too good to be true and supports way more formats than the O2/ODAC. Plus Jude's input helps I guess. Just wanna hear from more people on the subject. Particularly from those who have had a chance to listen to the m920.

 

[mscott58]

For similar money there's the Chord Mojo as well. Lots of good choices these days...

 

[sheldaze]

I don't know about the O2/ODAC. I have, and am thinking about selling, my JDS Labs The Element, which I believe sounds quite similar to the O2/ODAC just in a newer form factor. The reasons for this sale are twofold:
 

1. I just bought the Mojo, and it is amazing! And it basically serves the same purpose as The Element.
2. I also bought a single-ended, dedicated headphone amplifier from Jan Meier. It too has shown me the limitations of The Element.

 
My guess is the Grace Design will be more competitive with Mojo, and a step above O2/ODAC and The Element. But that's just conjecture at this point. I'll have to hear them to compare.

 

[159650]

Thanks for your insight! I guess I'll check out the Chord Mojo as well. BTW, I have checked out the element as well. And to be honest, I was never sure that the Element was based off the Odac/O2. The DAC portion at least seems quite different. I should probably take a second look. 

 

[Mark Up]

Having used Grace pro gear for many years (mainly microphone preampsin the studio) they are well known for extreme quality at every step and specs proving it. Their sound is famously analytical, you get exactly what you put into it. It's off-putting to some who digs vintage (Neve, API) or tube preamp sound (coloration vs. brutal honesty). I find both can be useful. That said, nobody ever called their sound comparatively warm and smooth. If anything, it's in the top tier of brutally honest, with high end so clear and extended you'd think it's boosted (when it's not, it's ruler flat). To hear this has the specs it has with barely any variation in frequency response (no surprise) and to be called 'smooth' is impressive to me. Smooth is never what I hear used to describe their gear. 100% accurate if to a fault is more like it. Finding the way to maintain their pristine, minimal, quiet signal path, glorious specs, and accuracy, while having the ear friendly sound, shows continued progress. You really can have it both ways, which had once seemed impossible.

Further, the fact that warm headphones were usable, as well as the more analytical bright models shows versatility. In my view, a user with money to burn, and enough OCD to justify it should continue with their massive tube devices for the phones that need warming up, and the super sterile and almost edgy amps for the warmer cans. For those who want one to do it all, in a small footprint, that's easy to use, has some selectable aspects, and is built like a rock for the lower price, this is it. An expanded 1/2 rack (pro audio rack) sized version with 4-6 outputs, each with their own gain knob, would be awesome. Having pristine EQ DSP built in to each (to customize it for each set you plug in) would be even better of course. Allowing for Thunderbolt along with the USB would be great also, since it's a big part of the future. I am just getting head of myself and the available technology. This product is ground breaking enough, and it shows they listen to their customers too. I'll be at AES NYC next week and Grace will be there. I'll check it out then.

 

[Neotribal]

Would the internal DAC on the m9xx combo pair well with a Bottlehead Crack? Would there be a noticeable difference? (The Crack + Speedball upgrade, if that makes any difference.)

Edit: I have the hd600&650 and want some desk-friendly endgame gear that can play well with the Crack and also fuel all my low impedance phones and iems... Currently juggling that duty with portable amps from FiiO and Centrance. I was about to pull the trigger on an ODAC and matching O2 amp, but I know myself, and would rather pull the trigger on a higher tier device from the get go.

Any photographers who have gone through the unfortunate upgrade fever of tripods knows what I'm talking about... Aim for an endgame device once you identify that this is one of your addicti... **ahem** ... hobbies.

 

[glassmonkey]

I want to know the same thing. Should I go with ODAC or Grace Design?

The ODAC is really great, but it is also limited to 24/96 and uses a stupid USB connector that you won't find on any good modern DACs. I'd make a wager that this Grace m9xx kicks the crap out of the ODAC. I do love me some DSD, and 24/192 does sound better than 24/96. I used Linn's 24 bits of Christmas thing last year to compare 16/44, 24/96, and 24/192 versions of the same track. I did this after reading a whole bunch of stuff that says that 24/192 is a total waste of time because we can't hear it. You can hear it. Music sounds fuller at 24/192. I found 24/96 versions of the same song to sound rougher, with more sharp bristly bits. 24/192 was just a smoother experience. I mourned for my wallet that month.
 
My experience has been that the closer you are to the original master the better it sounds. So if you have an analog master, transfer to DSD will generally sound the best. If your master is FLAC based digital, the highest bitrate FLAC you can afford is the best option.

 

[NA Blur]

  Since the Benchmark DACs get mentioned a lot around the Grace Design m903 etc, I have to ask since massdrop also has a drop on their Objective 2/ODAC right now. Would the m9xx be a significant upgrade to the O2/ODAC? I'm already in the drop but am considering upgrading to the M9xx

The m903 and O2 sound strikingly similar as I have tested both and currently own the m903. I did not like the O2 as much because of its channel imbalance at low volumes and cheap feel compared to the m903.

 

[159650]

  The ODAC is really great, but it is also limited to 24/96 and uses a stupid USB connector that you won't find on any good modern DACs. I'd make a wager that this Grace m9xx kicks the crap out of the ODAC. I do love me some DSD, and 24/192 does sound better than 24/96. I used Linn's 24 bits of Christmas thing last year to compare 16/44, 24/96, and 24/192 versions of the same track. I did this after reading a whole bunch of stuff that says that 24/192 is a total waste of time because we can't hear it. You can hear it. Music sounds fuller at 24/192. I found 24/96 versions of the same song to sound rougher, with more sharp bristly bits. 24/192 was just a smoother experience. I mourned for my wallet that month.
 
My experience has been that the closer you are to the original master the better it sounds. So if you have an analog master, transfer to DSD will generally sound the best. If your master is FLAC based digital, the highest bitrate FLAC you can afford is the best option.

I haven't had the best experiences with 192Khz files. I don't know if it had something to do with poor mastering of original files, but I never really found the 192K stuff to be any good. There is definitely a difference between 16/44.1 and 24/44.1 all the way up to 24/96 in my opinion. I guess I just never found good 192 files.  

 

[159650]

 
The m903 and O2 sound strikingly similar as I have tested both and currently own the m903. I did not like the O2 as much because of its channel imbalance at low volumes and cheap feel compared to the m903.

Thanks. But isn't it impressive that the O2 can keep up at all with the m903? If memory serves the m903 is a 1900 dollar system. Looking up a m903 and 920 comparison right now.