Can you explain why this is, how this works? I recently compared the Saga (both with tube active and not active) against an older NAD pre-amp I have, and I have to say I was enjoying the NAD pre-amp more and I don't know why... but it did sound fuller and I'm wondering if it's because some of the low end was being rolled off with the Saga. Again, I don't know why, just trying to figure it out.
The tube buffer output impedance is not the same at all frequencies, it rises a little at the low end. This, in series with the input impedance of the amp will result in a slight rolloff of the low's. Very slight and with most amps, too slight to think you would hear it. The passive output, of course, does not do this. It can, however, roll off the highs a bit if your cable capacitance is too high. Try a truly blind test. The Saga looks light and insubstantial, normal sighting listening bias will probably make it sound that way too.
Thanks for the reply. I thought the whole point of the tube buffer was to make it more compatible with various amps. What do we gain from the tube buffer then?
I’m going to be using the saga with a pair of pass amp camp amps, source in Modi Multibit. The amps have an input impedance of about 10k which I hear is on the lower end of things. so I just want to make sure I’m not hobbling anything.
I’m going to be using the saga with a pair of pass amp camp amps, source in Modi Multibit. The amps have an input impedance of about 10k which I hear is on the lower end of things. so I just want to make sure I’m not hobbling anything.
Looking forward to your impressions as I also have a pair of ACAs. I am having trouble choosing a preamp and slightly confused by the impedance mismatch issue as well.
I’ve tried the setup with a pair of ls50’s, which are by no means efficient speakers for such low power amps. I did notice a lack of low end compared to more powerful amps, which I was assuming was because of the low power output of the aca’s. But now I’m wondering if this is more because of an impendance mismatch.
I’ve tried the setup with a pair of ls50’s, which are by no means efficient speakers for such low power amps. I did notice a lack of low end compared to more powerful amps, which I was assuming was because of the low power output of the aca’s. But now I’m wondering if this is more because of an impendance mismatch.
I love my ACAs. Currently driving an old pair of Klipsch Forte II with the tweeter and crossover upgrades from Bob Crites. Sounds great. I haven’t tried enough different preamps with them to have a feel for how different output impedances affect them. I often can’t even find the output impedance listed in the specs of some amps, especially used stuff.
I have seen recommendations that preamp output impedance should ideally be 10-20x less than the amplifier’s input impedance.
The ACA’s input impedance is only 10k Ohms.
I’m thinking about trying to build a balanced version of the BA-3 preamp to use with my ACAs.
Hi,
may I jump in here with a question which sort of got touched on earlier. I am close to pressing the buy button for a Vidar and a Saga which I want to use for my turn table (and a cd player every second moon).
Will I have enough gain going through the Saga into a Vidar?
I am using a Schiit Mani at the moment but will most likely get myself a Graham Slee Phono Amp.
I am worried if I get this setup that I will have too little volume. How would it be with the dynamics?
Sorry if this has been answered earlier. I have little expierence with gear and the technical side of stuff.
Thanks
I use a Mani, Saga, Vidar and it works fine. I have to turn the volume up higher than when playing CDs, but only by a couple of notches.
I’m using a MM cartridge. I have experimented with MC, and in that situation the volume on Saga did need increasing by quite a bit.
Thanks for the reply. I thought the whole point of the tube buffer was to make it more compatible with various amps. What do we gain from the tube buffer then?
I’m going to be using the saga with a pair of pass amp camp amps, source in Modi Multibit. The amps have an input impedance of about 10k which I hear is on the lower end of things. so I just want to make sure I’m not hobbling anything.
The buffer is more about compatibility with long cable runs than low input impedance amplifiers. In neither case is the effect a large one unless the input impedance is stupidly low or the cables are 20+ feet long or of an extremely high capacitance design. Your 10K input impedance using the tube buffer will result in a bass reduction of about 2db. If you have an AVR or anything with a digital EQ try shelving the low frequencies below around 250hz down 2db and see how much difference you hear. Or if you have short cable runs just have some one else switch from passive to buffer mode with the preamp behind a barrier so you can't see the light and see how much bass reduction you hear. Not much I bet.
Well it looks like the new Saga S, which eliminates the capacitor coupled tube output buffer for a DC coupled solid state output buffer (and no tube above the top cover which makes stacking difficult) should alleviate some concerns with the effect a capacitor coupled output may have on low frequency response in the original Saga. My own feeling is modern well designed preamps (tube and solid state) have converged sufficiently on sonic quality to make differences more or less a moot point. But I am an old dog around the block many times, and I will concede it is just plain fun to play with tubes.
Meanwhile I have a Saga S coming my way. I don't expect to have much to report when it gets here based on how good the original Saga is, but will post either way.
I'm loving the Saga S. Sound quality is pretty much as good as it gets IMHO, but adding a Loki Mini to the chain took the system to a new level. I was surprised at the difference between passive and active in my particular system, active wins and it's not all that subtle. The Saga S is not driving long cables, but the chain is a bit complicated, Saga S > Loki > active crossover > sub and main amps in a 2 channel system. At first I thought there was a very slight overall level difference, but then I realized mids were the same level but bass was slightly higher. The subjective effect of Saga S buffer stage is better definition, pace, rhythm, and drive.
The design of the new remote is sweet too. For me Saga S is a winner on an absolute basis, and on a cost/performance basis, especially with the Loki in the chain.
I prefer sound out of the buffer than passive. Passive doesn't sound to have a good of a bass response and highs less articulate. But, not large differences between the two modes. I think the passive is better than most cheap alps pot based passive premaps, but I'm realizing that buffer is necessary and prefer it over passive.
Just hoping someone can shed some light on a strange distortion occurance with my new Saga S.
The setup is Modi MB > Loki > Saga S > power amp. It's nicely clean at low volumes, but at around 90% on the Saga there is distortion when the input level gets high (eg loud music, or cranking up the bass in the Loki).
There is no problem at full volume, and it only happens in the passive mode. The cables to/from it are only 1 metre (3 feet) long. Any ideas please?
Indeed, it is quite strange. But that the distortion goes away when the Saga volume is one click louder suggests to me that it's something to do with the pre-amp.
I've just tested it with another power amp and the same thing happens.
My mistake, it turns out that the 2nd amp is upsetting things when it's turned off (I'd discounted this because the only Saga output that was connected was to the 1st power amp, but didn't realise that the pre-out of the 1st amp was connected to an input of the 2nd amp). Perhaps it shorts the inputs when turned off?
Just out of curiosity, can anyone suggest why this only causes issues in the Saga's passive mode but not when the Saga volume is at max?
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