[AudioBomb]

I got Fiio m11 on the way and ifi xcan, and thinking about Fiio lc-2.5D. Is there any sound difference with balanced cable?

Yes, definitely. See the example of professional Studio Monitors (speakers). They all use balanced connections to the studio sound cards (for recording and mixing).

 

[AudioBomb]

I've just had an out of this world bass session, I'm out of words...!

And separation is pretty good for 4 drivers, even resolution. They are fantastic.

A shame I haven't tried them several years ago...

edit: have tested the black filters once again and there's definitely more bass, but the loss of resolution/clarity, makes me choose the blue filters withouth a second thought. Best balance between great sub/mid bass bump and vocal and treble extension and detail. Amazing filter.

 

[AndrewH13]

I've just had an out of this world bass session, I'm out of words...!

And separation is pretty good for 4 drivers, even resolution. They are fantastic.

A shame I haven't tried them several years ago...

edit: have tested the black filters once again and there's definitely more bass, but the loss of resolution/clarity, makes me choose the blue filters withouth a second thought. Best balance between great sub/mid bass bump and vocal and treble extension and detail. Amazing filter.

Many here liked the modified blue, ie, taking foam out of the top (not basket end). Have you tried that? I found that the best balance of good tight bass but retaining detailed treble.

 

[plakat]

Yes, definitely. See the example of professional Studio Monitors (speakers). They all use balanced connections to the studio sound cards (for recording and mixing).

Balanced XLR connections used with professional equipment is something quit different to what is called balanced in headphone audio (called bridged in most other applications), where simply to amps work on one load, one of the amps with inverted phase. One proposed advantage is the absence of shared common ground, but I'd say the biggest advantage is doubled output power, which makes such a construct very interesting for power hungry drivers.
The balanced XLR interconnects to use inverted phase on a third connector as well, but invert phase again at the receiver, using this to cancel out noise picked up on the cable. Very useful concept for longer connections or environments where there is lots of electrical noise.

The adapters should work I'd say, they simply map the 2 pins to 2 contact points on a MMCX connection, they won't shortcircuit the output stages of a balanced amp.

 

[Brooko]

I got Fiio m11 on the way and ifi xcan, and thinking about Fiio lc-2.5D. Is there any sound difference with balanced cable?

No - not unless the balanced circuit is changing impedance.

Lets look at it this way ...... from a DAP point of view ........

The specs will actually tell you more than your hearing will. Take the X7ii and its new balanced module.

It'll put 17mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 63 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 200 mW and balanced is 380 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage ....... Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 116 dB and on balanced is 119 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.003% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 97 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:

The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.

The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.

So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.

As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 97 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

1. People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and that's what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
2. Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (to me this is actually sign of a bad design choice)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 12 ohm (SE) vs 1.7 ohm (bal) output on the X7ii. For a low impedance sensitive earphone like the SE846, going balanced could actually degrade the audio. It depends on the circuit and on the specs.

 

[Brooko]

Yes, definitely. See the example of professional Studio Monitors (speakers). They all use balanced connections to the studio sound cards (for recording and mixing).

Adding to Plakat's reply - the only reason they use balanced cables in a studio environment is noise rejection for a long run of cables. Its only when the cable runs are getting long, and the benefits do not translate to comparatively very short IEM cables. So in short - no, there won't be a benefit in running the SE846 balanced unless the circuit is designed better than the SE. On the M11 he was talking about, the SE spec for output impedance is <1ohm (ideal). The balanced output is <2 ohms, so potentially an issue for the 9 ohm SE846. Using the normal rule of 1:8 ratio for proper damping, anything over 1 ohm will likely change the default frequency response.

 

[HiFiJayJay]

Can anyone point me to a good blue filter mod please? Am planning to get an extra pair to mess with. TIA!

 

[AudioBomb]

Many here liked the modified blue, ie, taking foam out of the top (not basket end). Have you tried that? I found that the best balance of good tight bass but retaining detailed treble.

I haven't man, but really appreciate the suggestion and will try it now

 

[Krutsch]

...

Let's look at it this way ...... from a DAP point of view ........

...

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (to me this is actually sign of a bad design choice)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 12 ohm (SE) vs 1.7 ohm (bal) output on the X7ii. For a low impedance sensitive earphone like the SE846, going balanced could actually degrade the audio. It depends on the circuit and on the specs.

Great post and timely for me; thanks for sharing.

I just purchased a Sony WM1A and have been reading on Head-Fi that the "balanced circuit actually sounds better by design" (though I can't find anything from Sony to that point). So, I dutifully dilated my wallet and purchased the Sony/Kimber 4.4mm balanced cable compatible with the SE846. My initial impression, after some listening with the SE connection, was not good - it sounded a little dull or flat. Subjective, of course, but my expectation was quite the opposite.

 

[IEMusic]

FWIW, I really like the sound of the TRN T3 cable with the se846. It‘s inexpensive and supposedly all silver conductors. It seems to make the imaging a little clearer and more precise, and helps the highs, w/o sacrificing any bass. It has decent construction as well.

 

[AudioBomb]

Ended up prefering the white filters (they don't lose any bass) and the clarity and treble come close to much more expensive IEMs.

Actually prefer them over the LCD-i4. They don't have the spaciousness of the LCD, but have much more than that that gives me a level of enjoyement I don't have with any other IEM I've heard.

 

[Slim1970]

Ended up prefering the white filters (they don't lose any bass) and the clarity and treble come close to much more expensive IEMs.

Actually prefer them over the LCD-i4. They don't have the spaciousness of the LCD, but have much more than that that gives me a level of enjoyement I don't have with any other IEM I've heard. My best buy ever and makes me save A LOT of money.

I have the blue filter and a silver balanced cable on my pair. I love the sound of my SE846‘S in this configuration. Without the Cipher on the LCD-i4’s, I prefer the sound of the SE846’s as well. The LCD-i4’s with Cipher cable attached, it’s the other way around for me.

 

[PhenixS1970]

Hi All, My Shure SE846 is up for sale in the market section (EU buyers only)

 

[AudioBomb]

Just received the IEM that blew the SE846 out of the water, even in the bass department. QDC Anole VX

Sounds as good as the LCD-i4 in terms of resolution, imaging and separation, but with plenty of bass. Even more midbass than the SHURE's.

But the SE846 has that addicting subbass... Need more testing, but will most likely return the SHURE's.

 

[IEMusic]

Just received the IEM that blew the SE846 out of the water, even in the bass department. QDC Anole VX

Sounds as good as the LCD-i4 in terms of resolution, imaging and separation, but with plenty of bass. Even more midbass than the SHURE's.

But the SE846 has that addicting subbass... Need more testing, but will most likely return the SHURE's.

Not surprising given that the QDC Anole VX is a flagship IEM. It’s a very well respected IEM. Let us know what you think after listening to them for a bit.